22 replies to this topic

[1nferno]

The Orion takes way more damage than other mechs. My lighter armored mechs last longer than the Orion. It may be because the hit detection is really responsive on that particular chassis.

[Imperius]

1nferno, on 11 September 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

The Orion takes way more damage than other mechs. My lighter armored mechs last longer than the Orion. It may be because the hit detection is really responsive on that particular chassis.

Depending on how light these other mechs are (spider, raven, etc) then it most likely is you have found that light mechs have a HUGE ADVANTAGE called SPEED.

[Solomon Ward]

Many people claim the Orion has an oversized Center Torso and they get cored quickly.

I don´t have an Orion yet so i can´t talk from my own experience.

[Khobai]

Quote

Many people claim the Orion has an oversized Center Torso and they get cored quickly.

I find that hard to believe, considering the Cataphract and Awesome both have huge CTs. And the Orion is a smaller mech than both.

[ferranis]

Everything lands ct, you can torso twitch all you want. At least it feels that way.

[Marmon Rzohr]

There may be a key difference between the Cataphract and the Orion in the fact that the Orion's CT and STs are clearly differentiated, while the 'Phract's are all part of the same center mass (visually speaking).

I think it might be cool for PGI to release a graphic representation of a mech's hitboxes when they release a new one. It's a very significant factor that's just as important as hardpoints IMHO.

[627]

the orion looks narrower than the other heavies but the CT is indeed a large part of it.

I do loose side Torsos in it, though - especially in brawls i loose my AC20 often. Will be interesting in some weeks if your missile hunch will be first target to check for an XL or not. So far i'm running an XL360 in my K and don't die more often than in the protector with a STD engine.

[Budor]

I took a lrm salvo on the back yesterday while being behind a mountain running 76kmh for 3sec. It all registered front ct. Maybe high arc hit me at that hunch atop/behind the head?

That aside:

CT is an issue, it's far easier to ct core a Orion than a Phract atm. when not aiming at specific parts. Feels like a smaller awesome to me.

[SgtKinCaiD]

The orion suffers from the same problem as the kintaro : oversized CT.

[Royalewithcheese]

I suspect part of it is that everyone wants to shoot the new robot. A giant CT might also be part of the equation, although TBH I'm not sure about that one. CT feels about on par with Cataphract CT, as determined by my extremely scientific hitbox size determination method of shooting SRM at center mass.

Edited by Royalewithcheese, 12 September 2013 - 04:32 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

CT feels about on par with Cataphract CT

Yeah. My cataphract always gets hit in the center torso, so much so, that I always run an XL in the thing. But honestly any mech thats 65 tons or more, except for the Stalker, seems to always get hit in the center torso way more than it should.

[The Boz]

Khobai, on 12 September 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

Yeah. My cataphract always gets hit in the center torso, so much so, that I always run an XL in the thing. But honestly any mech thats 65 tons or more, except for the Stalker, seems to always get hit in the center torso way more than it should.

The Atlas side torso hit boxes are HUGE. I literally can't remember the last match that I survived with my arms still there.
Well, unless I count the 12:0 roflstomps.

[Lightfoot]

Budor, on 12 September 2013 - 03:08 AM, said:

I took a lrm salvo on the back yesterday while being behind a mountain running 76kmh for 3sec. It all registered front ct. Maybe high arc hit me at that hunch atop/behind the head?

That aside:

CT is an issue, it's far easier to ct core a Orion than a Phract atm. when not aiming at specific parts. Feels like a smaller awesome to me.

The back CT is a small square usually located high, near the head. Any damage that doesn't hit that square is called a Center Torso hit.

The Orion does seem a bit fragile for all the armor. One of the problems with the design is that the Center Torso is so well defined, and it's large. However, I painted mine Obsidian Black and this seems to add just a bit of confusion because the mech's outline is asymetrical with a gun slung low and a missile pod projecting off the opposite shoulder. Once the square of the center torso is hard to see the damage gets spread more. Don't expect wonders, but it is better. It also looks cool, like a SR-71 or stealth mech.



.

Edited by Lightfoot, 12 September 2013 - 05:42 AM.

[General Taskeen]

If i wasn't at work I could draw a wonderful paint picture to explain why some CT hitboxes are down-right stupid in this game.

The main reason it dies is to due the CT that sticks out. Now if you look at the hitbox, the side of that "boxy" center area is still considered CT.

So no matter if you twist or not, your CT is going to be hit.

And that's why some hitboxes are stupid in this game when "twisting" to the side is meant to spread damage specifically to the torso's and arms, but it is impossible if the hitbox is designed in an illogical way.

I mean seriously, in my Awesome I have to twist beyond 90 degrees to avoid CT damage. Same with the crappy Blackjack CT, Cataphract, Dragon, Jenner, etc. As someone who rarely ever levels any Mech, even with basic efficiencies, and mostly uses stock Mechs - the frustration is 2x worse with stupid hitboxes.

Seriously - can we can some freakin quality control on hitboxes? Like NOW?

Edited by General Taskeen, 12 September 2013 - 06:30 AM.

[Ngamok]

627, on 12 September 2013 - 02:18 AM, said:

the orion looks narrower than the other heavies but the CT is indeed a large part of it.

I do loose side Torsos in it, though - especially in brawls i loose my AC20 often. Will be interesting in some weeks if your missile hunch will be first target to check for an XL or not. So far i'm running an XL360 in my K and don't die more often than in the protector with a STD engine.

Same, I don't always get cored. I'd say 35-40% of the time I lose a side torso first.

[stinkypuppy]

i own a protector and i would say that i do get killed pretty often compared to my other mechs and i would honestly say i probably die from Center Torso destruction about 80-90% of the time, never once have i died in my protector and have the cause of death be something like my cockpit being destroyed and the damage reports almost always have my CT being ruined.
every single time i come out of a fight and live i take a look at my damage and my side torso, legs, and arms are usually lightly damaged while my CT is usually on the edge of being one light laser away from destruction.
sometimes i do get my side torso destroyed and that leads to my arm being destroyed but i have never seen my arm itself get destroyed without a side torso missing first, something really weird must be going on hit-boxes.
but one other thing i need to say is that the Orion would probably draw a lot of fire from others just because its a Orion, out of most of the other mechs the Orion probably has to be the least intimidating for me. when you see the rough armor of a cataphract or the intimidating size and skull of a atlas and then see the smooth elegant angled armor of a Orion which is basically a Ferrari (more beauty, less intimidating) with guns and legs you kinda want to go for the one that wont make you start panicking because honestly even after playing this for quite a long time every time i see something like a atlas pop out of cover and start walking towards me i still have the immediate urge to shout out a slew of swear words that would make everyone else in the house start testing me for anger management issues but every-time i see another Orion show up i think oh that dosent look to bad lets unload lasers and SRMs into his torso.
also when another protector shows up it just makes me want to shoot more into his chest because i know what varied load-outs they can carry and don't want to risk seeing what the user did to modify it for his own deadly reasons.

i know that at this state they cant change its appearance and i wouldn't even like it if they changed it because i bought it because of its cool sexy sports car of the battletech world look but the hit-boxes are one thing they can change, the side torsos are way to small and skinny and in most situations they only get hit because of a laser moving past my mech and sweeping through all my components.and i really hope they make the center torso either smaller or buff up its protection because in its current state i barely see any use taking it into combat as the second i go into battle shoulder to shoulder with other heavy and assault mechs mine is usually the first to go making me feel like cannon fodder and that's not a good C-bill earning tactic

[hashinshin]

Khobai, on 12 September 2013 - 01:03 AM, said:

I find that hard to believe, considering the Cataphract and Awesome both have huge CTs. And the Orion is a smaller mech than both.

Cataphract has a smaller center torso and is typically on the move, making it harder to hit. Orion is more of a sit at range and shoot mech, making it A. Have a large center torso, and B. Not so move-y as the other mechs.

[1nferno]

To clarify my point: this is just an observation but it seems like the Orion absorbs close to 100% of all incoming damage due to accurate hit detection whereas a mech such as the cataphract takes a fraction of that damage due to dodgy hit detection. My engine turns red faster than any other mech in an Orion and I think it's because it simply takes more damage than other mecha due to hit detection on the chassis being more precise than others. We all know the CT is huge but that is not the issue here. well not the only issue I think, anyway.

[SteelPaladin]

The issue is that the Orion's center torso protrudes forward, while the side torsos are tucked back with the arms. Somebody who's a decent shot can still hit pure CT even if they're directly to your left or right, kind of like how the HBK's hunch can be hit from anywhere. That dramatically limits the effectiveness of twisting.

My first MWO mech was a Centurion, and I like to think I'm pretty good for my bracket at defensive twisting. For my other mechs (primarily Cataphracts), the CT is almost never the first section to go and I generally lose at least two other body parts first. For the Orion? I've only lost other body parts in ONE game since I bought the thing.

It's like they design the models for concept first and balance after, when it should be the other way around. Form serves function.

[1nferno]

Thanks for everybodys input! Hopefully our orions get a little bit of love from our friends at PGI. Otherwise I really like the mech, but I am just noticing that my armor on all my body parts gets stripped very early, not just the CT. Again my gut tells me it is a hit detection issue, and not so much the CT. Its like the Orion doesn't have the magic shield that the other mechs have