23 replies to this topic

[Jazzbandit1313]

I just slapped a tag, medium laser, 2 lrm 15 +6 tons ammo, Ac/2 + 2 tons ammo, and an xl 300 and got 171,960 cbills after the round finished. 1 kill and 9 assists with around 470 damage.


*was going to post screenshot but the print screen image turned out black?*

[Wintersdark]

Jazzbandit1313, on 13 September 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

I just slapped a tag, medium laser, 2 lrm 15 +6 tons ammo, Ac/2 + 2 tons ammo, and an xl 300 and got 171,960 cbills after the round finished. 1 kill and 9 assists with around 470 damage.


*was going to post screenshot but the print screen image turned out black?*

The imagine in the MWO folder, or did you try to just paste into paint? When you hit PrintScreen, MWO will save the image in .gamedir/user/screenshots

[Wintersdark]

Anyways, making money is simple. People think it's damage, but damage is a small portion of earning these days.

To make lots of $ now:

Hit everything at least once. Kill Assists are worth far more than kills or damage.
Help your friends. Savior kills are awarded whether or not you deal the killing blow, and are worth many c-bills.
Spot. Spotting bonuses are granted whenever someone shoots something you've provided targeting data from. This is surprisingly easy to gain, I get 3-4 per match, every match.
As you noted, TAG. If you've got an energy hardpoint you don't really need, push a TAG laser on there. Hell, I moved my 6ML Jenner to 5ML+TAG, because you can really rack up the earnings that way (and you're actually helping your team too!). Sure, it alphas a little softer, but can do so more before overheating, so it works out.

I run premium time, but it's pretty normal for my wins to net me around 250,000 cbills. I've hit just shy of 300,000 a few times since the patch.

[Jazzbandit1313]

[Wintersdark]

Yup, there you have it. Check out the earnings for Savior Kills, Assists, and TAG/NARC, compared to damage done.

479 is a pretty decent amount of damage, too - people like to go off about their 1000 damage matches, but realistically 400 damage is a much more common number for a decent overall game (as opposed to one in which you ran roughshod over the competition). 10,059 cbills from 479 damage? even at a 900 damage game, you'd have only made around 20,000 cbills - pretty close to what you got from flashing a TAG laser around.

In short: The key to high earnings is to help your team. The more you work together, rather than try to run off and be a one man wrecking crew, the more money you earn. (This is directed to Your Average Reader, not you personally Jazz)

[Errinovar]

Wintersdark, on 13 September 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

In short: The key to high earnings is to help your team. The more you work together, rather than try to run off and be a one man wrecking crew, the more money you earn. (This is directed to Your Average Reader, not you personally Jazz)

So you are saying the guys delivering the majority of the damage are somehow not helping their team? That someone rocking a tag to help the 1 lrm boat do some damage is more of a help than the mech that is burning down the enemy? This makes absolutely no sense. A high damage game does not mean acting outside of the team, and I would give far more to the guy that brings their own damage to the table than the guy that has to have another mech just to land some mediocre damage (read LRM boats). This is simply the devs trying to back people away from k/d, damage and the high alpha meta and while I appreciate increasing support awards I think they went way too far. That a pilot can get more from nothing more than scratching the paint off a bunch of mechs than the pilot that flanks the lrm boat that is devastating his/her team, and takes out both the boat and their support is off the deep end. That pilot that sees the problem, and deals with does more for his/her team than someone rocking a tag or scratching paint on everything.

I'm not knocking 400 damage as good, in fact I think its good damage for a match. But I think the notion that assists, spotting and tag are a more valuable contribution to the team than extreme damage is way too broad of a generalization and false in most cases.

[Wintersdark]

Errinovar, on 13 September 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

So you are saying the guys delivering the majority of the damage are somehow not helping their team? That someone rocking a tag to help the 1 lrm boat do some damage is more of a help than the mech that is burning down the enemy? This makes absolutely no sense. A high damage game does not mean acting outside of the team, and I would give far more to the guy that brings their own damage to the table than the guy that has to have another mech just to land some mediocre damage (read LRM boats). This is simply the devs trying to back people away from k/d, damage and the high alpha meta and while I appreciate increasing support awards I think they went way too far. That a pilot can get more from nothing more than scratching the paint off a bunch of mechs than the pilot that flanks the lrm boat that is devastating his/her team, and takes out both the boat and their support is off the deep end. That pilot that sees the problem, and deals with does more for his/her team than someone rocking a tag or scratching paint on everything.

I'm not knocking 400 damage as good, in fact I think its good damage for a match. But I think the notion that assists, spotting and tag are a more valuable contribution to the team than extreme damage is way too broad of a generalization and false in most cases.

And Saviour Kills; they're a huge earner and easy enough to get if you fight alongside friends.

You're kind of riding on LRM spotting, and that's just a tiny bit of what I said.

You get spotting bonuses regardless of what weapons someone uses to damage the mech. Thus, you're being rewarded for holding targets. People should be doing that, it's very important that they do. Not just for LRM mechs, but for everyone, to share the targeting data.

The problem with damage awards is that it's counterproductive in a lot of cases; and it actively penalises people who play well. You should never be doing more than 200 damage to a single mech. Not ever, to any mech. And 200 is a very high number, assuming you're frontally engaging an Atlas that's twisting to protect it's CT. But high damage awards encourage sloppy play like that.

Moreso, your earning scale based on the size of the mechs in the match - and as such, the larger mech you pilot, the more money you can make because of the matching mech on the other side. Drop in a light? Now there's a light on the opposing side, and you've removed that many c-bills from being able to be earned in the match (by you and your teammates!


Your example, here:

Quote

That a pilot can get more from nothing more than scratching the paint off a bunch of mechs than the pilot that flanks the lrm boat that is devastating his/her team, and takes out both the boat and their support is off the deep end. That pilot that sees the problem, and deals with does more for his/her team than someone rocking a tag or scratching paint on everything.

Is disingenuous and simply wrong. The pilot that does that is still earning assists, being up close and personal can be sharing targeting info (and thus getting spotting bonuses), is getting component destruction and almost certainly Saviour Kills. Those Saviour Kills are worth a TON of money.

If you sit back and just scratch the opposing team and shine a TAG laser around, you're unlikely to win many matches (and thus earn fewer c-bills) and ultimately you're doing what will boost earnings, but not doing the core work.

You still need to WIN to earn c-bills. The key is to assist teammates while you kill stuff.

[GRiPSViGiL]

I have gotten over 350k a lot. Premium of course.

[Errinovar]

@Wintersdark:

Saviors kills reinforces my point about scratching.. and while I am exaggerating the actual scratch it serves the point. You get savior kill bonus regardless whether or not you get the kill, so long as the conditions are met. It doesn't matter if the mech is nearly dead, or whether or not your hit actually made a difference. Tonight I came up over a hill in my YLW on the canyon match and found a treb fighting one of my team. The treb was hashed, but it fired a laser at my team mate right as I fired my 20. It was ~350 meter out and turned just enough that my shot missed the torso and took the arm. I got 2 component destruction bonuses for taking the arm and as the arm was flying my team mate sent another laser volley and cored the treb. So I got an assist, and a savior assist but what I did really amounted to jack. Assuming the team mate fighting the treb had done all the damage up to that point, and based on his mech condition I think it was pretty likely, I likely got more c-bills for a 20 damage shot that took an arm on a mech that was essentially already dead than the guy who did all the work. And regardless of the fact that my teammate was engaging this guy 1 on 1, it does not mean he was less of a team player, in fact in my opinion he was the perfect team player in that he neutralized a long range mech that was pounding on our team allowing the team to press the enemy without being bombarded by LRMS, while so many others were too busy hill humping and sniping to care.

As far as the spotting thing goes, I'm sorry, but rewarding someone for having a ret on a target that gets hit is rewarding someone for doing nothing they shouldn't already be doing. If people don't use the targeting computer they are playing foolishly, and I'm sorry if I'm wrong but I don't think you should be handing out rewards for people to not play foolishly. The reason I go after the tag and spotting bonuses so much is because it gives almost as much to a person simply hitting the r button and hitting the target once as it does for a person that takes out a mech either on their own or mostly on their own and doing ~150 damage. (spotter gets 1.1k for the spot, and ~3k for the assist, and ~1k for every 50 damage dealt, killer gets ~3k for the kill and ~1k for every 50 damage dealt). In fact, I think I really believe at this point that spotting and tag rewards were simply the devs bowing to the myth that light mechs are less capable on the whole.

If this topic had come up in May or June when I was still struggling to hit 250 damage a match and bought into the idea that lights were only good for scouting and capping I would have agreed with this reward system wholeheartedly. I do not consider myself a great or even a good pilot these days, simply middle of the road. But now that I have learned enough to figure out what my mediums and lights are capable of when I pilot them well, I disagree.

Edit: My major biases on this topic are twofold. First, I solo drop every time, with ~1.7k matches, so for me being a team player probably means something very different than someone who regularly drops with friends and uses TS. Second, I tend to be a brawler/ambush/flanker using mostly close to medium range weapons as I do my best in those roles. I spend most of my time either in the "kitchen" or rolling around for a pinch flank, or to take out long range batteries (LRM boats and snipers) that are devastating our ranks. These experiences are probably a big reason why I believe what I believe about c-bill bonuses and who is doing the work on a team. On the flip side I think cap bonuses should be significantly higher than they are, because it is very important, causes the ones doing the capping to lose c-bill generating time and the rewards are quite small. A person that spends time on capping while the rest of the team brawls away can make the difference between a win or loss and is often woefully unrewarded for their efforts.

Edited by Errinovar, 14 September 2013 - 03:38 AM.

[BillyM]

(My highest b-bill earning under the new economy was 191,069 running a Jen7F, 5ml +coolshot /w only 4 basics completed on 8/25.)

I tend to agree with the above poster on most points. Assists, while good and necessary, need to be secondary to WINNING. I don't think you did wrong by focusing on assists and by all means that is a good game, but folks need to be rewarded for OUTSTANDING games.

To that point, I think there could be benefit to an increasing scale for involvement in actively winning the match... If you did more than 2x your average damage/match, you need to be visibly rewarded for that. If you did a HUGE amount of component destructions/kills, you need to be rewarded to a greater degree. In addition, if you carried your team to a close win, that needs to affect the payout as well.

Let me put these two screens up as a comparative: This is a 4ml+1srm4 JenD (only basics unlocked) after a match chosen for payout similarity. Comparing your match vs mine, would you say our efforts were similarly worthwhile? Would the team have possibly won without my contribution? If you had piloted my match while I piloted yours, would you feel the payout balance is fitting? How about the spider in my lance who likely received 125k-cb for his "contribution"? Is that balanced for the effort put in?

(Please understand, I am by no means downplaying your role or match, it was a great one for sure! ...I am simply placing a comparative data-set to further conversation on the matter. Keep pewpewpew-ing!)





For the sake of full disclosure, on 9/3 when this match took place, the Jen7D W/L was 1.67 with only 32 matches on the chassis and a 2.88 kdr and 332avg-dmg/match. I had not yet achieved speed-tweak and ran seismic and one coolshot (used during this match).

--billyM

Edited by BillyM, 14 September 2013 - 07:38 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Well not going to post a screen shot so take it or leave it.

Heavy Metal
7 kills
3 assists
1115 Damage
216,535 w/o prem
299,818 w/prem

If I take out the Hero mech bonus it is only 166,565 C-bills so slightly less than the OP.

[Zphyr]

This is NOT my highest, but the only one I have screenshot of. I use mediums and heavies, so it's not easy to go above 150k.



I guess the pathetic c-bills can be explained by a lack of savior kills.

[Deathlike]

I've gotten 160k+ in the "best raking games". Still, it's overall disappointing in the grind grand scheme of things.

[Mcgral18]

I've gotten slightly over 180k without bonus, due to saviour bonus and 9 plus assists. I`ve only gotten over 180 once or twice, but it is possible.

[Mister Chrispy]

almost without fail the guy with the light and ~700 damage for a match has a ping below 50. damn my slow internet D:<

[M0rpHeu5]

You know the reward system is broken when this match


Is getting more than this


Also i beleave this worth more

[Sable Dove]

Savior kills are one of the big deciding factors. Especially considering you can often get 2-3 rewards for a single mech, if they are attacking several of your mechs.

Savior kills reward you for having weak teammates, and enemies who don't focus on individual mechs. They're usually awarded based on luck, as it's difficult to tell when they're attacking a weakened teammate, and you can only hope you kill them before they kill your teammate.

Assists should also award CBill like they do XP - the amount received is based on how much you actually contributed to the kill.

[Tezcatli]

Gotta love doing 200 damage but tagging everyone and making over 100k. But doing 470 damage and getting some legitimate work done. Nope. That's only 80k.

Yeah. I'm just gonna keep playing. But I'm not paying for anything. It ain't worth it. Just when I get good at the game. They decide to nerf people that can actually do some work in a match.

[Hexenhammer]

Hail to the assist, Baby!

Edited by Hexenhammer, 15 September 2013 - 04:47 PM.

[ShockATC]

Those Screenshots perfectly show, that this is a TEAMgame.

If you run around only greedy for kills, then you get less CBills.
Assisting, spotting, helping in general is worth more than trying to get a huge "e-peen" by a "great K/D".