70 replies to this topic

[Gaan Cathal]

Felio, on 13 September 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

First, it's completely impossible for there to be a hitbox problem without PGI doing it deliberately. They use software to place the hitboxes and would be able to see any gaps or omissions.

Your post is sensible, well reasoned and probably right in that a large proportion of the Spider complaints are inflation of a common hitreg issue through confirmation bias and the particulars of issue-scaling with size of target in an FPS.

However, your argument that the hitbox problem can't be there is sadly wrong. There is one confirmed hole in the Spider hitbox at the CT-Diaper joint, and in the past mechs have had off-centred hitboxes (Raven) and regional hitbox overlaps (Kintaro, IIRC). So, whilst you should be right on that point, you're not. Rest of the post is good though.

Mindwyrm, on 13 September 2013 - 10:48 PM, said:

I know it's not bias when I shoot a spider in the back at 127m and he doesn't take damage. This wasn't an illusion, and I wasn't hallucinating. I shot him with a standard ppc from my commando.

That's nonsense because.....

Risko Vinsheen, on 13 September 2013 - 10:29 PM, said:

It is. Because with the hit registration issues I've had a harder time registering hits on Atlases and Highlanders than Spiders.

....you observing a hitreg issue on a Spider does not make that issue exclusive to Spiders.

[NRP]

Only a friggin Spider pilot would ask this question. You can perform a simple 4 step test:

1. Drive something other than a Spider
2. Try to shoot a Spider
3. Get killed by said Spider
4. Get angry and rage about ******* Spiders

Spiders are what made be invest in Streaktaros. Now, I end Spiders.

[Kiiyor]

No.

My evidence is all anecdotal, but it's one mother of a ******* hard to kill anecdote.

Spiders are by far the hardest mech for me to bring down. I can core Jenners, leg Commandos and smash Ravens comparatively easily if they err, but spiders usually only begrudgingly give up on life after I have carved away every scrap of their armour, and have poked holes in whatever exposed areas of Teflon coated internal structure my weapons can find purchase on.

The easiest way to test your hypothesis would be to roll in all the different lights, and understand just how much easier it is to survive in a Spider. I've done it. Commandos are a fragile annoyance, Ravens are but a shadow of their former glory (and a shadow that I still furiously destroy... because I remember), Jenners are AMAZING strikers,but again, are fragile.

Spiders? You can circle half a team in a trial Spider, whilst sipping a latte with one hand and texting your friends with the other to tell them how {Scrap} everyone's aim is. As long as you are moving in any direction other than a straight line, you're more secure than an Atlas.

[DarkDevilDancer]

Just finished a match i was in my spider, it was going good 7 of the enemy dead and only 2 of ours when they decided to cap us so i zoomed over there to stop them and found a stalker 2 hunchbacks and a cataphract, did i run...HELL NO i jumped on to stop the cap started running in a circle strafing them and jumping like a mad man until 3 other lights got there to help.

At the end of the match i was still on 75% despite running around with 5 mechs shooting at me while delaying the cap, i should not have survived 5 seconds let alone the 30 odd it took for help to arrive, as it was i lived and got 3 kills.

I'm a decent pilot but i can assure you i was not dodging all that incoming fire, spider hit boxes are not working right.

[Mehlan]

in one ear, out the other... yes we know that it seems to be most obvious with spiders. Until the issues confirmed by PGI are fixed an accurate assessment cannot be done.

[Ghogiel]

No.

The spider is the worst mech in the game for hit detection, but people use the term hitbox and a lot of the time it's not what they should be saying.

[Grimlox]

I seem to recall watching a video of a spider shooting another spider that was standing perfectly still in the middle of the torso and the damage completely not registering. They were two ppl testing the hit boxes and they were on the same team literally standing in front of each other firing dozens of shots and in one location in the middle of the spider it was not registering at all.

That is a hit box issue and nothing to do with HSR (that's a completely separate issue affecting all mechs). The video was somewhere on the forums but I don't have time to dig it up.

Edit: Here it is for those wondering.

Edited by Grimlox, 10 October 2013 - 03:53 PM.

[King Picollo]

The issue is it's not a consistent problem.

I've put a round of AC20 into a spider and seen it crumple straight away, but last night i but two rounds of AC20 into a stationary spider and no damage occurred.

I don't know if it's due to my ping or his but it's a little frustrating at times.

But it is something that has to be seen to be believed.

[Mehlan]

King, next time..or anytime your seeing weird stuff happen in game if you don't mind try this... alt-tab out of game if you can. Click start-run type in 'cmd' and hit enter. In the window that pops up type 'ping www.google.com -n 250' and hit enter. Then if you could, don't mind.... post the packets sent/received & and the minimum, maximum and avg ping times (There will be a summary at the bottom once it completes the ping... it'll take a few seconds-minute or so to run through) example: sent =4, rcvd 4 lost = 0. min = 56, max 59, avg 57 (Note: In your case sent should = 250)

Edited by Mehlan, 11 October 2013 - 10:21 AM.

[Finn McShae]

So, now that we have Locusts swarming around with PROPER hit reg (at least from my experience) I've really started to get annoyed with spiders.

Case in point. We're huddled on the island on Crimson Strait (for some reason) and doing the old sniper/lrm thing and I look to our rear and a spider is incoming. He/she must have dropped to a tiny engine or something because it was maybe moving at 60-80 kph, and coming straight on. I target and, with a battlemaster supporting, open fire. Straight on, 300 meters, 3 MLAS 1 LLAS, SRMs/ BLR shoots all SIX MLAS as well. Everything hits right center torso..... barely yellow damage to his torso armor...

He runs circles, shedding HUNDREDS of points of damage (at like 60 KPH!!) until some streaks finally swat him.

Toss a Locust or Commando in that same position (as happened later that night) and it pops from one volley no problem.

[Elwood Blues]

I've almost paid for streaming software again just so I can take videos of me following spiders around and blasting their back with MLs with no real affect and then me doing the same with other lights. I notice a big difference when I'm playing. I was just following a Locust yesterday with MLs and damage seemed to register fine. It's not confirmation bias. I've adjusted my Spider killing strategy based on the past experience. Now I just shoot the legs.

[operator0]

Why do we keep having these threads when we have multiple (as in, more than one) thread depicting, with video evidence on live and test servers, the hit box issue? The issue has nothing to do with poltergeists or schizophrenia, or Unicorns that turn into magic, damage stealing Zebras. The issue is real and has been confirmed by players with video evidence and has also been admitted to by the Devs.

I guess the question could be asked this way; Are spider drivers' disbelief of the hit box issue really a meme perpetuated by confirmation bias?

[Byzan]

there are some strange things in the game.

spider is one of them, I had one game where I unloaded shot after shot from dual LBX10s on a spider unloaded a whole ton of amo and only saw a couple of small flashes register on the targeting window. Some other real head scrathers.

The centurian is another. I mean its the only mech in the game its easier to shoot both arms off then both legs off to rather than just shoot the torso.

Then there is the awesome that dies in record time and even if you sprint around and torso twist like a mad man you still get cored every time with little damage to any other components. In my victor alot of the time I can move and twist and stay alive right down to 30% Armour before I die. In an awesome I go from 100% to like 70% and die, almost all damage hitting the core.

there are definite problems, they don't seem like they would be that hard to fix but PGI seem more interested in releasing more and more new mechs than making everything viable.

With the spider maybe they are scared of making it useless, it cant be that hard though the Commando, Jenner and raven seem ok?

[Mehlan]

operator0, on 16 October 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

Why do we keep having these threads when we have multiple (as in, more than one) thread depicting, with video evidence on live and test servers, the hit box issue? The issue has nothing to do with poltergeists or schizophrenia, or Unicorns that turn into magic, damage stealing Zebras. The issue is real and has been confirmed by players with video evidence and has also been admitted to by the Devs.

I guess the question could be asked this way; Are spider drivers' disbelief of the hit box issue really a meme perpetuated by confirmation bias?

Link and quote where the Dev's have confirmed Hitbox issues.

[Xyco]

I have watched a spider run into the enemy group (consisiting of meds, heavies and assaults), run circles around them for several seconds and still run away with 46% armor. I was hoping someone caught it on fraps or something cause it was quite a scene. i don't know if it's hitboxes, hit detection or confirmation bias. All I know was that I wouldn't have survived that in my jenner.

[Urfin]

No, the spider's bugged, and no amount of "meme distrust bias" will make up for the glaring reality of it.

[Mehlan]

http://youtu.be/5LMxLM8ddK8


Now, where is that link & quote of the Dev's stating the spider hitboxes are bugged/broken?

Edited by Mehlan, 17 October 2013 - 01:33 AM.

[wirikidor]

What does it matter if it's the hit box or the detection? The fact is there's a problem and it needs to be fixed by PGI. Their brand new locust release gets 1 shotted by a good ERPPC hit... but the spider goes just as fast and somehow manages to survive running through 5+ enemies all shooting at it.

[Mehlan]

wirikidor, on 17 October 2013 - 03:55 AM, said:

What does it matter if it's the hit box or the detection? The fact is there's a problem and it needs to be fixed by PGI. Their brand new locust release gets 1 shotted by a good ERPPC hit... but the spider goes just as fast and somehow manages to survive running through 5+ enemies all shooting at it.

In order to 'fix' something, you need to have an idea of, or know what's wrong with it. http://youtu.be/nxeNoSHhPoI <--- I can do the same with a commando or a jenner. 'Hitbox' issues would be a mech specific problem, 'detection' could be mech or system, 'HSR' is a system...not mech specific.. getting the idea yet?

Edited by Mehlan, 17 October 2013 - 04:21 AM.

[wirikidor]

Mehlan, on 17 October 2013 - 04:20 AM, said:

In order to 'fix' something, you need to have an idea of, or know what's wrong with it. http://youtu.be/nxeNoSHhPoI <--- I can do the same with a commando or a jenner. 'Hitbox' issues would be a mech specific problem, 'detection' could be mech or system, 'HSR' is a system...not mech specific.. getting the idea yet?

Ours is not to figure out what the problem is, ours is to tell PGI that we think there is a problem. They're the developers. Somewhere in the office there's a guy (or gal) who knows exactly what the problem is, they just haven't been given the chance to fix it.

I know this because I'm that guy for the company I work for, and everyone's opinion of what they think the problem is or how they think something works is typically wrong.

So back to my point... it doesn't matter what the problem is, the problem needs to be fixed by PGI.