254 replies to this topic

[Kes Moreau]

Points are being made I guess. This is about as boring of a post as an early cap game. That being said early caps are good strat from time to time. The only things to chap my hide is the lies surrounding the implementation of 3pv and of course the {Scrap} ton of macro using widdle timmy power gamers. Have a Kleenex ? *sniff sniff*

[The Boz]

Mutaroc, on 14 September 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

I guess you have more post on the forums than matches played LOL!!!

THE BOZ

Member Since 30 Aug 2013



You are definitely a stats new player AND a noob trying to climb a meaningless ladder.\

About me well yes I have only 5 months but with almost 7k games already

460 games. But thanks for being mature.

[Mao of DC]

Mutaroc, The Boz compared to Founders, and a lot of other players, both of you are newcomers to the game. So let's not allow this to degenerate into a "I've been playing more/longer than you." argument here.

Edited by Mao of DC, 15 September 2013 - 07:32 AM.

[Unnatural Growth]

Reginald Lansing, on 15 September 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

Second, to emphasize what others are saying, from the light pilot's perspective, capping and harassing are the two most significant ways I can positively influence the match. If you've never piloted a light in 12v12, try it. Try to fight. You will most likely be torn apart in the first alpha barrage that hits you.

So, what does a light pilot do? We run to the cap (or flank and take annoying pokes at the enemy).

As a fellow light pilot, it pains me to read that you think these are your only options.

Just today I pulled my Jenners out of mothballs ( I have been mastering my 2nd and 3rd Stalkers lately) and ran 2 consecutive matches back to back on assault mode. We won both matches. The first match, there were 3 Jenners (including me) on our team. The second match, I was the only light on our team.

First match we 3 Jenners took off in advance of our column and found spots to observe the enemy positions. Then when our main force arrived, we all 3 descended on the enemy. Myself and one other Jenner took turns ripping an Atlas to pieces. Next was a Highlander which fell to the 3 of us plus incoming fire from our main force. We also helped pull apart a -phract. Our "team commander" called for capping (which I don't agree with, but it's a team, and I'm on it, so there you go). I fully believe we could have won handily without the cap, we were ahead 5 to 3 and they had lost the core firepower on their team. I was one of the last to step on the cap, and tried to step off again to engage an enemy incoming Jenner, but the cap timer ran out before I could.

Second match, being only scout class on our team, I took off for the tunnel to check for enemy flankers. Our main force took off into the water (I thought "bad idea"). As I typed "tunnel clear", an enemy light initiated base cap on our base. I typed "I'm on it" and took off for base in time to see a friendly Jager chase away the enemy Spider. I pursued the Spider back into the main force that was now fully engaged in the water. Forest Colony btw, which in 12 v 12 is like a knife fight in a phone booth. Not wanting to stay in the center of the fight, I turned and ran upland and around to enemy's rear, where I engaged an Atlas that was fighting a friendly Jager. I was handily ripping the rt rear torso out of that Atlas when it fell to the Jager. By now an entire enemy lance of heavies and assaults had turned around to engage me and the Jager.

Our team used this to advantage and pressed the attack. Both the Jager and I are taking fire from multiple targets. I'm using the rock piles/mounds as cover near the water, and keep circling around and firing on as many enemy units as I can. I stop to harass a Highlander and he tries to stay targeting me, but I'm hitting and dodging behind him and cover. Long story short (sorry), when the last mech fell I had like 7 or 8 assists, 400 damage, and never stepped on the enemy base cap.

There are LOTS of things you can do to help your team that doesn't involve capping. You can scout, spot, TAG (if you run it, I don't), harass and delay enemy mechs. All of which is a rush to play, and really helps your team.

Just because you're a light pilot, doesn't mean you have to be a cowardly cap warrior.

[Jman5]

I feel like a lot of assaults and heavies want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to bring the big, slow, but powerful mech, yet they don't want to have to deal with the consequences of having poor scouting and being largely immobile.

This is what Role Warfare is all about. Just as we lighter mechs depend on you to be our front line, you need to rely on faster mechs to be your scout and base defender/attacker. It kind of ****** me off that so many players who use assaults/heavies think they are entitled to force lights/mediums into a disadvantage. Our only advantage is mobility and forcing your team to split up to save your base is a prime method of using our advantage. But the threat of finishing the cap off MUST ALWAYS REMAIN. People who step off without anyone on the enemy team running back are just putting their team at a disadvantage.

[Reginald Lansing]

OldOrgandonor, on 15 September 2013 - 07:32 AM, said:

Just because you're a light pilot, doesn't mean you have to be a cowardly cap warrior.

No, or course it doesn't. And I didn't say that they are your only options. I do feel, though, that they are (for solo pug matches) your most effective and dependable options. As with every strategy, it's all situation and drop composition dependent.

Let me expand the idea a bit...

In your first example, running a light swarm is a ton of fun, and can be very productive. But, if you don't have other lights (or other lights who know what they're doing), it doesn't work. This can be a {Scrap} shoot in a pug drop, as you don't know what everyone else has. Want to run a light pack and swarm the enemy? Good luck, since your partner is in a Raven-2X with a standard 200 engine :/

Your second example...well, that's harassing, which I said was one of the best ways for a light to influence the match.

Look at capping like this: When you step on the cap, the enemy team either responds or they don't.

If they respond, then you, without firing a shot, have now taken at least one 'Mech out of the fight. In an uncoordinated pug match, you may get lucky and have two or three enemy 'Mechs turn around and head to their base. If an assault turns? You, as a light 'Mech, have just punched far above your weight, and have taken lots of firepower out of the main fight. Your team now has the opportunity to take advantage of their superior numbers to start getting some kills, thus expanding the advantage.

If they don't respond? Then you're taking their base down early, giving you the option that, should the fight go south and your team starts losing, then you could attempt to pull out a cap victory.

My overall point is: there's a lot of hate in the game for capping, when there really shouldn't be - especially after the cap time nerf! The way it is now, it's next to impossible for a lone 'Mech to cap the enemy. Maybe on Terra Therma, outside shot on Alpine or Tourmaline. Forest Colony or River City? Forget it. Even an Atlas can get to base before a single 'Mech can execute a full cap.

(Which is all the more reason to whittle it down in the early game).

So, on a more macro level, I think that the question is: what is fun? It seems to me that the anti-cap crowd only finds fun in shooting other 'Mechs, and doesn't care about wins or losses. Personally, I like competition, and would rather try and win the game.

And finally, capping isn't any more 'cowardly' than a football team faking a field goal or going for it on 4th Down when they "should" have punted. It's an option in the game that everyone knows about. To remove it simply telegraphs to the other team what you're going to do. Without it, matches will just become "see how fast we can all get to the middle of the map to duke it out".

[-Muta-]

The Boz, on 15 September 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

460 games. But thanks for being mature.

Yes, but there is a big difference between a newcomer and a noob... Like I said I ONLY have 5 months playing with almost 7k games played.


hate me hate me

[Aluminumfoiled]

It is a totally valid tactic. Not well liked early on because it is a troll move and with the extended cap time often ignored, for a while at least in my matches anyway.

I would add if you do the cap to draw off forces be aware of enemy placement if possible. Several games ended cap because of the troll attempt when our main force was very close to enemy base. We step on and cap, win, and they complain about cap warrior. Been on both sides of that scenario. Early cap is getting meaningless I think. Or more so on the smaller maps.

it's a win condition liked or not. And it needs to be there to control the hide out factor I think.

edit: You must admit 2 min in and you are capping-you are trolling, lol. Nobody likes to be trolled. Totally valid though.

Edited by MicroVent, 15 September 2013 - 10:32 AM.

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

I blame PGI, both modes are the same with different names and one has more cap points, but same game mode.

[Vanguard319]

If you ask me, the real noobs are the people who cannot, or will not figure out that successfully defending their base is a requirement for victory. Not only does capping allow subpar teams of pugs a chance to defeat organized teams of veterans, but it also forces the other team to react and fight on terms of your choosing. To control the flow of battle, to utterly ruin your opponent's strategies before they can be implemented, and to complete your objectives with minimal loss of men and resources. That my dear idiots is the basis of all combat tactics, and why being successful in this game involves a bit more than who has the biggest guns.

[Corvus Antaka]

some people are just stupid.

winning is the only thing that matters.

[The Boz]

Mutaroc, on 15 September 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

Yes, but there is a big difference between a newcomer and a noob... Like I said I ONLY have 5 months playing with almost 7k games played.


hate me hate me

First off, good job liking your own post.
Secondly, yes, there is a difference. One is an insult, and the other is newcomer.
You insulted me.

[Mao of DC]

Vanguard319, on 15 September 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

To control the flow of battle, to utterly ruin your opponent's strategies before they can be implemented, and to complete your objectives with minimal loss of men and resources. That my dear idiots is the basis of all combat tactics, and why being successful in this game involves a bit more than who has the biggest guns.

I think Helmuth von Moltke the Elder sums it up best when he said..."No plan of operations extends with certainty beyond the first encounter with the enemy's main strength."

Edited by Mao of DC, 15 September 2013 - 12:38 PM.

[-Muta-]

The Boz, on 15 September 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

First off, good job liking your own post.>>>>Mutaroc responds: You like a Post when you agree with what it says (I am liking yours now )
Secondly, yes, there is a difference. One is an insult, and the other is newcomer.
You insulted me.>>>>>> Mutaroc responds: That is what I meant to do

The Boz I love you read above

Edited by Mutaroc, 15 September 2013 - 01:38 PM.

[Belorion]

Farix, on 14 September 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

The c-bill rewards do put too much emphases in combat and hardly any on other roles. But until PGI does a complete overhaul of the rewards system, p People will continue to complain about teammates who play smartly rather than thoughtlessly go into battle.

Fixed that for you.

Mutaroc, on 15 September 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

Yes, but there is a big difference between a newcomer and a noob... Like I said I ONLY have 5 months playing with almost 7k games played.


hate me hate me

Noob is short for Newbie... which would then be slang for newcomer, or new player.

[ApolloKaras]

Mutaroc, on 15 September 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

I dont always like my own posts but when I do...

Capping is completely viable. Nothing wrong with it at all. If 6 of your guys are 40 tons and lighter, you might want to make a play for the cap immediately. The problem with the 'last resort' mentality, is that you may not realize how tore up everyone else is, and by the time you realize its time to cap, you are too far away or too messed up yourself to get out there.

If the scouts have already seen the enemy and we have located where the enemy lances are, and they want to cap? Who cares cap it, draw some of the enemies out, hopefully they can get some backs turned and the assault/heavy lances can push into them.

[Asmosis]

People dont like you capping (whether same team or not) because it means EVERYONE gets less cbills for the match and potentially wasted 5 minutes joining a game where 90% of the combatants only get 25k cbills. I consider that a loss even if im on the winning team.

If you insist on antagonising your own team, your not really a team player and deserve the abuse (unless they're all dead). If its the OTHER team thats kicking up a fuss, then gg they deserve it.

Dead people: you have no say in what the living do in the match. **** about what they should or shouldnt be doing, you had your chance already.

Belorion, on 15 September 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

Fixed that for you. Noob is short for Newbie... which would then be slang for newcomer, or new player.

Just to clarify a bit.

newb = newbie = newcomer = a new player who needs to learn and should be encouraged to do so.

noob = new player who thinks they know everything, doesnt listen to advise and generally blames their failings on others (you should stab them with something pointy).

Edited by Asmosis, 15 September 2013 - 07:27 PM.

[Mycrus]

I'm at that point that only harvesting tears matter in game.

Cap wins are most useful at it..

[Mao of DC]

Mycrus, on 15 September 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

I'm at that point that only harvesting tears matter in game.

Cap wins are most useful at it..

Tears are delicious.

[Hydrophobia]

I think some people are annoyed at the cbill per hour ratio when a game is just a cap-off, but personally I feel going straight for cap is just not a fun game.

How many times have you had a game where maybe a few shots are fired in total, both teams have avoided each other by walking on the other side of the map and soon the bases are both uncontrollably getting capped (either side can't stop because otherwise it is an auto loss)... either side wins, and everyone has gone, "damn, that was a great game!"? ... none maybe?

Change the variables a bit; maybe it is just some lights who are capping while others are busy brawling, but when the game is prematurely ended without much action it doesn't really feel worth the time of waiting to join a match, loading of the map, and waiting for all systems to be nominal just to walk around for a bit.

I'd love to have PGI try out something for Assault like either a 5 minute delay from the start of the match on being able to cap or I read a post once with someone suggesting base defenses (some mounted machine guns or something) which would delay the super quick caps.