35 replies to this topic

[Booran]

Taiji, on 19 September 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

I've been waiting for EU servers to go live before playing again, because the lag makes the game ****



It's just you. Go look at the population of Europe compared with the US, and notice how you have half as much. lol

Well that would imply that all of europes population plays this game. I think NA is the bigger market here..

[Bromineberry]

I hope that PGI doesn't introduce European servers, because I fear that it will only split the community. I never ever had the feeling in the last months (since lagshield is no more), that my 150 ping hampers my play in any way.

[Zerberus]

Booran, on 19 September 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

Well that would imply that all of europes population plays this game. I think NA is the bigger market here..

I think you seriously underestimate the European affection with BT. The "official" German BT community alone dwarfs this one, and in "europe" there`s still Italy, Spain, Greece, France, the UK, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Poland, Czech Republic, Austria, Switzerland and about a dozen assorted other countries (not counting small "city states" like Andorra, Liechtenstein,, Monaco or the Vatican)... There are also a few hundred million people more in Europe than in NA.

It would not suprrise me one biit to see Europe have a stronger marrket than NA.... No insult intended, but IME the NA market generally tends towards more "accessible" games with minimal thinking required to learn, wheras europeans in general seem to PREFER for a game to be harder to learn and master, at least that`S what >15 years testing games has taught me.... While MWO is by no stretch of the imagination "hard", it does require significantly more active thought, and has a much more challengine learning curve, which would at least theoretically make it better suited to the european market.

We actually had a in-house joke at (Company name omitted for legal reasons): "If you dumb it down enough, it will sell like hotcakes in the States and flop everywhere else...." Not saying that is necessarily true, but they say every joke has a kernel of truth.

Braddack, on 16 September 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

They already sadi they have not the ressources for running the Testserver and you realy believe in an EU Server ??

Credible Source?

The official line is that the testserver is not up becasue it`S being reconfigured for the launch tournament, and after that will be used for DX11 Public testing.....

Edited by Zerberus, 19 September 2013 - 06:25 AM.

[Jestun]

The size of the BT fandom in different regions doesn't matter so much when they brand the "core" fans as a vocal minotity to be ignored as they dumb the game down to cater for casual gamers (the ones who will come in for a few weeks, play, spend nothing, and then leave) instead.

[Zerberus]

Jestun, on 19 September 2013 - 08:27 AM, said:

The size of the BT fandom in different regions doesn't matter so much when they brand the "core" fans as a vocal minotity to be ignored as they dumb the game down to cater for casual gamers (the ones who will come in for a few weeks, play, spend nothing, and then leave) instead.

This assumes of course that the "core" fans that constantly harp on that as being the reason for their disappointment are in fact the the "core" fans... However, considering that:

• Most of them openly advocate not spending money on this game for any reason
  
• an equally large portion continually state that they do not play the game anymore
  
• a significant portion of them are still doing everything they can to tank the game

It is simply a bad business decision to actually cater to them.

Basic management 101:

You don`t try to please non-paying /no-longer paying customers that still complain about everything under the sun, you try to please the customers that DO spend money. If those same "core" fans that closed or never opened their wallets have a problem with you trying to expand your business (3pv), it is prudent to brush their opinions by the wayside as they are not paying customers.

You also underestimate the financial clout of casual gamers... Do you think WoW was held afloat by the 500,000 "professional" /"Hardcore" raiders, or by the 9,5 million casual gamers that paid the exact same subscription fee?

90% of all PC gamers (that was the number we threw around at Blizz) are casual gamers. They used to buy 2-3 AAA fullprice titles a year, some still do.

But the F2P market has changed that, for the most part "casual" gamers are where the big money is, and denying that is to deny reality.

There are 2 primary reasons for this:

1. Casual gamers also want to experience end-content. This means they are significantly more likely to pay for convenience (Premium time, standard and Hero mechs, XP conversion... ) than an unemployed player who can grind out an atlas daily without premium.

2. Generally more expendable income, and less qualms about spending it: "hardcore" gamers in non-competitive games (and by that I mean "Any game that does not have regular tournaments with 4 figure cash prizes allowing one to earn their living gaming") are generally brokeeass mofos, as opposed to most casual gamers who usually have full time employment and therefore an actual income.. to spend. On our game.

That said, your assumption that all people not here belonging to the "core" audience are casual gamers is pretty insulting to very literally millions of BT fans that have been playing since 1984, have played every expansion and PC title since release day, and have spent thousands of dollars and hours with the content ever since.

Maybe, just maybe, a lot of them are not here because they don`t want to be associated with a forum full of reality-denying, entitled ,whiny man-children when tehy could be playing the game instead and having fun.

Seriously, "you guys" act like you are the only ones that have ever spent money on this game and ever will, all the while stating that you no longer play and that nobody shouls spend money on it, and then act all high and mighty over how you are teh only source of income for this game.... I cant even imagine the amount of mental hoops one has to jump though to convince oneself that such behavior and expectations are realistic and /or sane.

Edited by Zerberus, 19 September 2013 - 09:12 AM.

[Jestun]

A significant amount of the complaints are from founders.

Did they steal their founders packs instead of spending money on them?



Sounds like both you and PGI learned your business knowledge from watching the huge success that was SWG NGE. Ignoring the existing playerbase, doing the opposite of what they want until you push them all away in favour of the mainstream crowd who will *surely* flock to the game when it's dumbed down and mutilated.


After all... if you build it they will come!



As for thinking that fans of an IP that's decades old like BT are worth abandoning for people with disposable income... COD kiddies begging their parents for money do not have more disposable income than the aging fans of an aging IP like MW / BT. Your average MW / BT fan is in a much older age bracket than most IP, they have worked for decades.

[Deathlike]

Taiji, on 19 September 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

It's just you. Go look at the population of Europe compared with the US, and notice how you have half as much. lol

Personally, I'd like a breakdown of the #s for this game regionally, but the game generally seems to pick up more on US "primetime". I can't speak for any other time zone though (weekends are not an accurate representation all of the time).

Zerberus, on 19 September 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

This assumes of course that the "core" fans that constantly harp on that as being the reason for their disappointment are in fact the the "core" fans... However, considering that:

• Most of them openly advocate not spending money on this game for any reason
  
• an equally large portion continually state that they do not play the game anymore
  
• a significant portion of them are still doing everything they can to tank the game

It is simply a bad business decision to actually cater to them.



Basic management 101:

You don`t try to please non-paying /no-longer paying customers that still complain about everything under the sun, you try to please the customers that DO spend money. If those same "core" fans that closed or never opened their wallets have a problem with you trying to expand your business (3pv), it is prudent to brush their opinions by the wayside as they are not paying customers.

You also underestimate the financial clout of casual gamers... Do you think WoW was held afloat by the 500,000 "professional" /"Hardcore" raiders, or by the 9,5 million casual gamers that paid the exact same subscription fee?

90% of all PC gamers (that was the number we threw around at Blizz) are casual gamers. They used to buy 2-3 AAA fullprice titles a year, some still do.

But the F2P market has changed that, for the most part "casual" gamers are where the big money is, and denying that is to deny reality.

There are 2 primary reasons for this:

1. Casual gamers also want to experience end-content. This means they are significantly more likely to pay for convenience (Premium time, standard and Hero mechs, XP conversion... ) than an unemployed player who can grind out an atlas daily without premium.

2. Generally more expendable income, and less qualms about spending it: "hardcore" gamers in non-competitive games (and by that I mean "Any game that does not have regular tournaments with 4 figure cash prizes allowing one to earn their living gaming") are generally brokeeass mofos, as opposed to most casual gamers who usually have full time employment and therefore an actual income.. to spend. On our game.

That said, your assumption that all people not here belonging to the "core" audience are casual gamers is pretty insulting to very literally millions of BT fans that have been playing since 1984, have played every expansion and PC title since release day, and have spent thousands of dollars and hours with the content ever since.

Maybe, just maybe, a lot of them are not here because they don`t want to be associated with a forum full of reality-denying, entitled ,whiny man-children when tehy could be playing the game instead.

There's a faulty assumption there... some of the people who already paid money for the game (founders) in addition to others that have claimed to have spent money on the game are the ones making those decisions to not spend. Not all "converts" are because of the people who have paid nothing. It is their own decision to do so. This is not the type of "conversion" that should be occurring unless the provider (PGI) is not delivering the product they are expecting to play.

What PGI is failing to do is converting people that haven't paid to pay... and although it starts with buying mechbays (a low cost proposition), you have to factor in other things, like retainment which can't be really high when you're subjected to non-champion trial mechs, giving the worst impression of this game, or the inherent grind to "compete" with the people that already have their good stuff. Premium time has been devalued since it is strictly defined as a proportion of your rewards... so doing poorly will not really do much for rewards as it would for doing well. Then again, doing well didn't have the same kind of value than it did for 8v8s... which is rather disappointing.

It's easier to blame the "free player" or leechers, but converting fully willing paying people to "unhappy leechers" is the wrong way to have a sustainable business.

[Taiji]

Deathlike, on 19 September 2013 - 09:16 AM, said:

Personally, I'd like a breakdown of the #s for this game regionally, but the game generally seems to pick up more on US "primetime". I can't speak for any other time zone though (weekends are not an accurate representation all of the time).

^.- Are you joking?

You actually want to base your opinion off of an assessment of current numbers when currently only Americans get a decent service?!

Bromineberry, on 19 September 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:

I hope that PGI doesn't introduce European servers, because I fear that it will only split the community. I never ever had the feeling in the last months (since lagshield is no more), that my 150 ping hampers my play in any way.

'the feeling'?!

Have you not had the SEEING?

Not noticed that oh so crappy moment when your Gauss slug explodes on the enemy doing no damage whatsoever?

^^ This is the kind of European that plays MWO at the moment, Deathlike.

But to any Euro who's thinking of playing MWO, I'd say try it out in anticipation of the Euro servers that were promised long ago, and that this awesome game most certainly deserves. And bear in mind we were also told that we would be able to switch servers when the time came - So you shouldn't have to worry about your investment being wasted.

Anyway, I love this game, and I don't mean to be rude, I just wanted to further stress the point that we are still waiting.

Edited by Taiji, 19 September 2013 - 10:32 AM.

[Deathlike]

Taiji, on 19 September 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

^.- Are you joking?

You actually want to base your opinion off of an assessment of current numbers when currently only Americans get a decent service?!

No, I'm actually curious to the numbers. I would honestly think there is a potential population to be had (at least 10-15% more than what we have now, in non-North American regions) due to the simple fact that the central servers are effectively in the western most part of Canada.

Quote

'the feeling'?!

Have you not had the SEEING?

Not noticed that oh so crappy moment when your Gauss slug explodes on the enemy doing no damage whatsoever?

^^ This is the kind of European that plays MWO at the moment, Deathlike.

I see this all the time, WHILE playing here in the US. I can only imagine it being worse everywhere else.

Quote

But to any Euro who's thinking of playing MWO, I'd say try it out in anticipation of the Euro servers that were promised long ago, and that this awesome game most certainly deserves. And bear in mind we were also told that we would be able to switch servers when the time came - So you shouldn't have to worry about your investment being wasted.

[size=4]Anyway, I love this game, and I don't mean to be rude, I just wanted to further stress the point that we are still waiting.

I'm actually more annoyed at the idea that accounts are potentially not "shared" amongst the servers (they have stated this before in previous AtDs, please refer to them but I could find the exact ones if you want)... rather they are "transferred" as requested, deunifying the playerbase. I don't have a problem playing with other people in Europe, Asia, or Australia on their servers if the playerbase at the time favored those conditions on a weekend. My fear is that for PGI, that they are doing themselves a disservice by trying to "regionally segregate" as it were. I've played with people who live in other regions (not too many, but it does include the UK for instance) and that's cool with me. My sole concern is by trying to have new accounts in different regions is simply a bad idea for the playerbase.

I also think that in their delay in deploying regional servers has to do with the effective term "being cheap". I could be totally wrong of course, but just remember that any expansion can only be done if you get enough money to do it in the first place... which implies there has to be enough people to justify that expense. You don't expand a company haphazardly when the growth isn't there... so it is something that has to be looked into in detail.

There are logistical concerns, not just monetary concerns that make what PGI has been saying to be "odd at best".

[Alois Hammer]

Xagul, on 14 September 2013 - 05:51 AM, said:

When do we get EU Servers?

Probably some indeterminate time after we get UI 2.0 and Community Warfare, but before 1PV-only queues outside of 12 vs 12.

[Deathlike]

Some info to look into (I don't feel like copypasta anything at the moment):

http://mwomercs.com/...evs-36-answers/
http://mwomercs.com/...evs-37-answers/
http://mwomercs.com/...evs-35-answers/
http://mwomercs.com/...evs-34-answers/
http://mwomercs.com/...vs-33-answered/

Just search for the word "regional" for some of the stuff mentioned.

I don't like the direction they are going with the servers... but the worst part is that none of this has an ETA (whatever ETAs there were before are pretty much past and gone).

[Sephlock]

Lokust Davion, on 14 September 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

better yet.. when do we get ASIA/PACIFIC servers?

Never. You will NEVER escape us!

[Bromineberry]

Taiji, on 19 September 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

'the feeling'?!
Have you not had the SEEING?
Not noticed that oh so crappy moment when your Gauss slug explodes on the enemy doing no damage whatsoever?

Well, shots don't register quite often on a stationary target when I'm standing 50m away. So I always considered this a problem with the serverside hit detection, not with the ping, especially because right after they started fiddling with HSR, the hit detection was much better....before it got worse again.
I know how a higher ping feels and plays from several different shooters before. Yes, it sometimes is annoying/challenging, especially as a sniper, but as long as it keeps beneath 150-200max, I can live with it.

Taiji, on 19 September 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

^^ This is the kind of European that plays MWO at the moment, Deathlike.

So, what kind of European am I?

Edited by Bromineberry, 21 September 2013 - 02:25 AM.

[Pacifist]

Deathlike, on 16 September 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

Is it just me or is there not enough people to justify the costs for that at this point in time?

If it is already a problem to "separate the queues" for the sake of 1PV/3PV, or let alone a newbie/veteran queue, then it stands to reason that separating the game by region (despite the obvious benefit of reducing pings) is not the most practical thing on a cost/benefit analysis.

It's just a sad commentary/thought on the issue.

Remember how people keep asking for more than 2 game modes? Well it's going to split the queues as well. So we'll be splitting the queues by Region/Gamemode/POV/Difficulty.

Still feels like PGI's reducing our options/content to keep a playerbase together while it slowly bleeds players because players don't feel they have enough options or content.

Edited by DarwinsDisciple, 21 September 2013 - 04:10 AM.

[Wispsy]

DarwinsDisciple, on 21 September 2013 - 04:09 AM, said:

Remember how people keep asking for more than 2 game modes? Well it's going to split the queues as well. So we'll be splitting the queues by Region/Gamemode/POV/Difficulty.

Still feels like PGI's reducing our options/content to keep a playerbase together while it slowly bleeds players because players don't feel they have enough options or content.

I q on all so that is ok. However! Please do not split into separate servers it already takes so long to find games and fails to find match far too often. I do not play as much as I used to but whilst they are still hanging on through the pr shitstorm they seem to be intent on creating I would like to play occasionally and not just sit searching for match for even more hours.

[csimi]

Any news on this?
There's no need to split the userbase, just assign a different server based on the location of the majority of players in a game.
You can fix only so much with tricks and hacks. I don't believe any netcode can eliminate the need for low latency.