12 replies to this topic

[Psilos]

It's not so much that the dps is to high for the uac5 it's that it effectively never overheats. I believe this little example illustrates this point:

4 ac2s has a dps of 15.38 (3.84 per ac2) and weighs 24 tons.
3 uac5s w/ double fire mode has a dps of 15.69 (5.23 per uac5) and wighs 27 tons.

In other words you can do the same dps and do as you please w/ a free 3 tons with a 4 ac2 build, you also never jam, have a better range and bullet speed. Now the obvious thing we have glossed over is the 4 ac2 build will over heat in approximately 10 sec where as the 3 uac5 take around 2 min of none stop firing to overheat. A simple solution would be to make a heat penalty for firing more then 2 uac5s at a time possibly for firing more then 1 at a time.

In conclusion when you compare the dps to weight of the ac2 and uac5 the uac5 sits exactly where it should it weighs 1.5 times more and only does 1.36 times the dps has less range and bullet speed.

[Snowcrow]

Or you could just reduce the uac5 cooldown to the same as a normal ac5.

[Psilos]

There is no question that is a possible way to, but as you can see its current DPS fits its weight exactly as it should.

[The Boz]

32t.

[GridIroN]

The issue with the UAC5 is not heat; it's that there is currently no rational reason why a player would ever want any other gun in your ballistic slot unless you're whoring WinC20's.

The UAC5 needs to be an AC5 that can fire while cooldown, with the added risk of jamming, therefore negating 2 shots...therefore, only getting 1 hit instead of a possible 3, where as if the player took a normal AC5, he'd get 2 hits, instead of a possible 3.

Edited by GridIroN, 15 September 2013 - 08:08 AM.

[Devils Advocate]

Already confirmed they're reducing the UAC base cooldown to 1.5 on Tuesday. I don't think it'd kill the gun to get a 20% jam rate instead of 15% but I will settle on a 35% reduction to its damage output.

[AnnoyingCat]

Just wait for Tuesday

Edited by AnnoyingCat, 15 September 2013 - 12:31 PM.

[shellashock]

Devils Advocate, on 15 September 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

Already confirmed they're reducing the UAC base cooldown to 1.5 on Tuesday. I don't think it'd kill the gun to get a 20% jam rate instead of 15% but I will settle on a 35% reduction to its damage output.

source please?

[Psilos]

GridIroN, on 15 September 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

The issue with the UAC5 is not heat; it's that there is currently no rational reason why a player would ever want any other gun in your ballistic slot unless you're whoring WinC20's.

The UAC5 needs to be an AC5 that can fire while cooldown, with the added risk of jamming, therefore negating 2 shots...therefore, only getting 1 hit instead of a possible 3, where as if the player took a normal AC5, he'd get 2 hits, instead of a possible 3.

First thank you for your input on the subject.

I think the first post showed why someone would choose an ac2 build over the "OP" triple uac5. Just another benefit to the ac2 build above is you get a higher total damage potential per ton of ac2 ammo over uac5 ammo.

Bringing the uac5 cooldown to ac5 level drops its dps to 4.32 ( while double firing ). In other words the ac2 build above just becomes the new "OP", it gives you a higher dps, but also costs you less weight.

I just want to mention their are other negatives to a dps build to a high alpha build. The very nature to the build forces you to sit broad side towards your target (and potentially other mechs) where as a high alpha build can alpha and torso twist to spread dmg w/ out loosing dps the uac5/ac2 builds cannot. This also applies to shooting from cover since a high alpha build can spend its load and retreat in and out from cover loosing very little to no dps if you do it right, again a dps build cannot do this w/out loosing exactly what you are going for DPS.

So while the uac5 does need some kind of nerf i.e. the heat penalty for boating them, I feel slightly rolling back the recent nerfs to the ppcs (the patch that moved them from 12 to 15 heat) would go a long way in putting a better counter build on the field to help take care of the rise in strength to the dps builds.

[Lil Cthulhu]

Psilos, on 15 September 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

First thank you for your input on the subject.

I think the first post showed why someone would choose an ac2 build over the "OP" triple uac5. Just another benefit to the ac2 build above is you get a higher total damage potential per ton of ac2 ammo over uac5 ammo.

Bringing the uac5 cooldown to ac5 level drops its dps to 4.32 ( while double firing ). In other words the ac2 build above just becomes the new "OP", it gives you a higher dps, but also costs you less weight.

I just want to mention their are other negatives to a dps build to a high alpha build. The very nature to the build forces you to sit broad side towards your target (and potentially other mechs) where as a high alpha build can alpha and torso twist to spread dmg w/ out loosing dps the uac5/ac2 builds cannot. This also applies to shooting from cover since a high alpha build can spend its load and retreat in and out from cover loosing very little to no dps if you do it right, again a dps build cannot do this w/out loosing exactly what you are going for DPS.

So while the uac5 does need some kind of nerf i.e. the heat penalty for boating them, I feel slightly rolling back the recent nerfs to the ppcs (the patch that moved them from 12 to 15 heat) would go a long way in putting a better counter build on the field to help take care of the rise in strength to the dps builds.

Except for the fact that a quad AC/2 build produces an unholy amount of heat vs. the UAC where half the time I can just keep the mouse button down and have a machine cannon without ever worrying about my heat.

[Sable Dove]

You know, considering you'll average about 3.5 shots before jamming, a 3x UAC5 build is very likely to put out 45 damage in the first second, followed by 30 in the next second. Maybe one jams, and you manage slightly less damage, but a burst DPS of 25-35 is hardly reasonable.

Guess what. You're going to kill or cripple the enemy before your DPS drops, and odds are you're going to peak out of cover, unleash your 80-100 damage in a couple seconds, then duck back to unjam.

And let's not forget that the UAC5 has the third longest range of any (direct-fire) weapon, nearly matching the Gauss Rifle.

Sniper-weapon range, low heat, and the highest DPS in the game, all for a moderate amount of weight and crits? How can that possibly not be overpowered?

[jakucha]

I love that the UAC is the weapon people are shouting OP at now. It's like the Twilight Zone.

[Psilos]

Lil Cthulhu, on 15 September 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

Except for the fact that a quad AC/2 build produces an unholy amount of heat vs. the UAC where half the time I can just keep the mouse button down and have a machine cannon without ever worrying about my heat.

I totally agree that is why i think they need to implement a heat penalty for firing more then 1 or 2 uac5s.