120 replies to this topic

[Wolfways]

Asakara, on 16 September 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

That sounds pretty extreme. Would you consider recording and posting a video showing exactly what you described above please?

That way PGI and all us forum goers can see conclusive proof of this issue you describe (a Jenner standing totally still at about 50m slowly coring you out while you fire multiple (6?) alphas from your Stalker into his CT for almost no effect), as sometimes memories can be mistaken and occasionally people are prone to hyperbole on the Internet.

lol okay, how do i travel into the past?
They are two extreme examples of what hit detection can be like. I haven't had anything like that again, but just wanted to show that lights have been taking less damage than the weapons hitting them are supposed to do. It doesn't seem as bad as it used to be (again, except for Spiders) but it still happens.

Flying Blind, on 16 September 2013 - 05:59 PM, said:

Since the last patch I have had no trouble killing light mechs, even spiders, with any weapon I bring. Yes, occasionally I will hit and no damage registers but it pretty uncommon now when it used to be pretty constant. Earlier today I killed a spider with an AC20 shot from 300-ish meters in my BJ-1 while jumping.

I don't know what you guys are doing wrong but it is working for me so maybe you should keep trying.

So you say that sometimes your damage doesn't register, but that it's the players that are doing something wrong...

Just wanted to add something else here. I'm not the type of player who runs crying to the forum if i get killed by an "OP weapon". I'm always willing to overlook something until it happens regularly.
For example, i've just been in a game now where i was the last player on my team alive and i had right leg damage (orange armour). No other damage at all. Then i ran into a K2 and was hit in the right side torso with a gauss and 2xLL's (according to the endscreen). I have 45 armour on that torso and yet i was instantly killed (XLengine). AFAIK there are no through-armour crits in MWO.
I'd report that if it happened often.
The only explanation i can think of in this situation is that the endgame screen doesn't show every weapon that hits you (of the last few anyway). Is this true?

Edited by Wolfways, 16 September 2013 - 06:39 PM.

[Razorfish]

Elwood Blues, on 16 September 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

People may miss lights, but misses and hits that don't register are different issues.

Brilliantly stated.

[Xandre Blackheart]

Flying Blind, on 16 September 2013 - 05:59 PM, said:

Since the last patch I have had no trouble killing light mechs, even spiders, with any weapon I bring. Yes, occasionally I will hit and no damage registers but it pretty uncommon now when it used to be pretty constant. Earlier today I killed a spider with an AC20 shot from 300-ish meters in my BJ-1 while jumping.

I don't know what you guys are doing wrong but it is working for me so maybe you should keep trying.

Translation: My UDP stream/ Netcode is working fine right now so there's no problem. Also, I've never seen a Ginger Kid, so I know they are myths.

[ShinVector]

OP this proves your theory wrong..
Refer to around 1hr 33 mins, the Alpine match.
I am the one running around in the Jenner K.

As long you have 10 mechs with LRMs, lasers, autocannon and what not, you can bring a light down.
At least I took two down before dieing...
The match makers sucks.. Also my mistake for not staying on I9 hill and monitoring their movement...

I saw them moving left side... Thought they were going to push there.. Left I9 because I thought they are still swarming in fast mechs.
And you saw the results... Phil saw our mechs coming down the middle and shifted the entire force to the centre.. DAMMIT !! Not even a close match.

Edited by ShinVector, 16 September 2013 - 07:20 PM.

[John Buford]

ShinVector, on 16 September 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

OP this proves your theory wrong..
Refer to around 1hr 33 mins, the Alpine match.
I am the one running around in the Jenner K.

As long you have 10 mechs with LRMs, lasers, autocannon and what not, you can bring a light down.
At least I took two down before dieing...
The match makers sucks.. Also my mistake for not staying on I9 hill and monitoring their movement...

I saw them moving left side... Thought they were going to push there.. Left I9 because I thought they are still swarming in fast mechs.
And you saw the results... Phil saw our mechs coming down the middle and shifted the entire force to the centre.. DAMMIT !! Not even a close match.

Hey what do you know lights getting hit and taking the damage.

[Hythos]

Flying Blind, on 16 September 2013 - 05:59 PM, said:

Since the last patch I have had no trouble killing light mechs, even spiders, with any weapon I bring. Yes, occasionally I will hit and no damage registers but it pretty uncommon now when it used to be pretty constant. Earlier today I killed a spider with an AC20 shot from 300-ish meters in my BJ-1 while jumping.

I don't know what you guys are doing wrong but it is working for me so maybe you should keep trying.

That's what does irk me though... While hit-registry problems don't always happen, it still does. When it does, it's either with just one match, or with a specific player (USUALLY just specific player(s), 'cause I've seen it happen a few times against the same name(s) - which, we're not allowed to post here on the forums. Screenshot or it didn't happen. Yes, I know. But my SSD is only 128GB, and I need another drive before I can record everything to catch it happening).

[Wolfways]

ShinVector, on 16 September 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

As long you have 10 mechs with LRMs, lasers, autocannon and what not, you can bring a light down.

Ah, now i see what i've been doing wrong. I just need 10 mechs with various weapons to take down a light. Silly me

[ShortBusBully]

I love it when a light runs right at me and I hit them with an AC/20 point blank and they go flying past me dead. So I suppose the whiners will be whining the AC20 is OP now and that will get nerfed like everything else.

[Flying Blind]

All I'm saying is hit registration is better than it has been in a long time, maybe ever. It isn't 100% and PGI knows it isn't. They are still working to improve. The occasional issue we are having now is certainly not worth a dedicated thread rant. Just cool your fires. Remember just a few .patches ago when you could pour weapons fire into a stationary spider and it just would not take damage from most of the hits? Remember when ravens had the same problem? Things are getting better so just breathe and relax, everything will be ok

[Javenri]

Wolfways, on 15 September 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

AFAIK the game engine can't handle the speed of lights well, and things get screwy.
Of course the obvious answer is to slow all mechs down, but players would cry...

Just today a lone Spider attacked a group from our team, about 6+ together, just running around in circles mostly firing at one mech at a time. We could see our shots hitting him and his paperdoll kept flashing, but it took us about 5 minutes to kill him with lasers, ballistics, and SRM's. During that time he took out two of our mechs, heavily damaged another, and caused some damage to the rest

I had the exact same experience. It is very irritating how they seem to evade all shots.

[DemonRaziel]

Javenri, on 16 September 2013 - 10:43 PM, said:

I had the exact same experience. It is very irritating how they seem to evade all shots.

Evading shots is good, not getting damaged by shots that seem to hit, is bad.

But this issue seems to be completely random - one time I hit a Spider and it loses half it's health, next time it takes no damage. It also works on other 'Mechs, big and small alike, every now and then. And since even stationary targets sometime shake off damage, it doesn't seem to be related to high movment speeds of light 'Mechs.

All in all, blaming Lights for (s)hit-registration is not the solution.

[Mehlan]

Quote

All in all, blaming Lights for (s)hit-registration is not the solution.

Nor is using 2+ month old 'examples'..... and requested data been provided? Neg

Edited by Mehlan, 17 September 2013 - 02:09 AM.

[King Picollo]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but remember PPC's and ERPPC's (i think) have a minumum range of 90m now, so if a light is "up in your grill" even if you are hitting you won't do damage.

Not sure if that counts as a miss in the stats though.

[Kunae]

King Picollo, on 17 September 2013 - 03:15 AM, said:

Not sure if this has been mentioned but remember PPC's and ERPPC's (i think) have a minumum range of 90m now, so if a light is "up in your grill" even if you are hitting you won't do damage.

Not sure if that counts as a miss in the stats though.

Only standard PPC's have the min range. ERPPC's do damage at all ranges out to 1620m.

[Jimmy Page]

I can't lead a shot, run away from my team and get mauled by lights. Nerf them because i am a mouth breather. Thats all i read in this long post. Learn to aim, stay with your team, focus fire, disrupt ecm and use cover and you will excel mouth breathers!

[Shredhead]

Jimmy Page, on 17 September 2013 - 03:32 AM, said:

I can't lead a shot, run away from my team and get mauled by lights. Nerf them because i am a mouth breather. Thats all i read in this long post. Learn to aim, stay with your team, focus fire, disrupt ecm and use cover and you will excel mouth breathers!

The ignorant is strong with this neckbeard. "I can hit them fine, so everything is okay here, all the others must be bad gunners!"
If you have no clue what we're talking about, just ****!

[Mawai]

Nightmage61, on 15 September 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

I own 2 mechs, a Jenner and a Hunchback. I love running in my light but even I fear the spider. My main gripe is the lack of responses the game allows. In my Hunchback, if I hit a light with an AC 20, point blank, it should fall down. If it runs into me at 130 kph it should crumple and bounce, not keep pinking me with MGs.

MGs should do 0 dam unless all armor is stripped. Their range / damage fall off should quickly drop to 0.

If I'm jumping all around in my Jenner and get hit by a weapon, it should toss me off my flight path and maybe make me fall.

The lack of logical responses to a light mech shows a need to check this mechanic in the game.

There are so many incorrect comments in this post.

1) A single hit from an AC20 will not take out a light and it didn't do that even in TT ... except maybe a Flea. It should not do that in MWO. In addition, MWO has rebalanced things to give mechs more longevity since with the weapon rate of fire they are using matches would be very short otherwise.

2) A 35 ton mech colliding with a 50 ton mech at 130kph could knock both over ... a 15 ton difference isn't enough to save you. On top of that there is no way it would "crumple" ... it isn't a car ... it is 35 tons with tons devoted to armor and structure to support it. A little collision is unlikely to do that much damage.

3) Knockdown depends how good the gyroscopes are ... which in turn depends on whatever the BattleTech lore seems to say ... and is completely modifiable by PGI. Sufficiently effective gyros will hold a one-legged mech upright. Under those circumstances, mechs would NOT fall down when colliding with each other. In addition, the knockdown mechanic was a griefer's paradise since the objective became to intentionally knock down opposing light mechs and then blow them to pieces. It was extremely effective.

4) Mech mounted MG's in MechWarrior are NOT the anti-infantry machine guns in use today. They are relatively smaller calibre high rate of fire auto cannons perhaps similar to the one in an A10. In TT the MG does damage to a mech, armor or structure, and is slightly less effective than a small laser (2 damage compared to 3). You may have your own ideas about what MGs should or should not be capable of ... but that is not the same as the weapons called "Machine Guns" in the MechWarrior universe or in MWO.

[Bacl]

John Buford, on 16 September 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

Well PEEF is not the most diplomatic person here on the boards he does have a good point and as a Jenner Pilot i am going to show this from the view of lights out there.

Lets start back in the days of games like MW2, and MW4 where if you had that big nasy Atlas or Dire Wolf you were guaranteed to kill pretty much everything else. Back then it was an arms race to get the big Assualt Mechs so you had that I win button vs Heavys, Meds and Lights. Well this is MWO and that arms race is not the case anymore so a Assualt can be out Piloted and loose. Now when this happens we see it as them going to mommy and daddy and crying how thier I win button didn't work. You see for all the people ******* and moaning about how you can't hit Lights there are those who can and do it on a regualr basis. You see when that AC20 hits a heavy or Assualt its not a rerrible deal but when it hits a light better hope you armor was undamaged because its gone now and if it was an alpha that just tagged you there is a good chance you are dead or about to be.

So yes Lights are hard to hit because they are supposed to be because if they wern't it would be that old stupid arms race again. So if you can't hit lights practice your Gunnery, change you weapon load outs and your tactics. Sorry if that makes you made but thats how I see it.

The problem is not the fact thet light mechs are hard to hit because like you said they are supposed to be hard to hit due to their speed, the problem is they barely take any WHEN YOU HIT them, lasers are neer to useless and i have 5 ssrms on a stalker. For this "light killer" to simply get rid of 1 spider takes an eternity. SSrm are more effective agaisnt hevaies than light mechs even tho they have a 100% hit. When you have 3 heavies focusing fire on 1 assault you see bit flying off, then why 3 heavies focusing fire on a light is barely making that armor go yellow. 1 assault vs 1 light in duel may the best win i m totally in, 1 light brawling 3 mechs and killing them one after the other while they all shoot at him this is wrong.

[Mehlan]

Bacl, on 17 September 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

The problem is not the fact thet light mechs are hard to hit because like you said they are supposed to be hard to hit due to their speed, the problem is they barely take any WHEN YOU HIT them, lasers are neer to useless and i have 5 ssrms on a stalker. For this "light killer" to simply get rid of 1 spider takes an eternity. SSrm are more effective agaisnt hevaies than light mechs even tho they have a 100% hit. When you have 3 heavies focusing fire on 1 assault you see bit flying off, then why 3 heavies focusing fire on a light is barely making that armor go yellow. 1 assault vs 1 light in duel may the best win i m totally in, 1 light brawling 3 mechs and killing them one after the other while they all shoot at him this is wrong.

That would depend on the variables.... as mentioned network plays into this, is it necessarily the 'spiders' or even pgi's fault if you have 2-3 people trying to play with a 300+ ping? Or if you're connection to your isp is dropping packets, it's the target, or pgi's 'fault'?

[Bacl]

Ok cant speak for the others but i have an average ping of 12 ( 25 mgs and i in Montreal so relativily close) so that shouldnt affect me too much but yeah having teammates with lower ping could make that dragon hunt a tad harder. I dont know i just want this game to run smootly and everyone to have a fun time but all those stupid decisions are making it barely enjoyable sometimes. Stupid ghost heat system, buffing weapons when they do a Heros sells ( magic buff of UAC5 and tada Firebrand and Ilya on sell), hit boxes, that damn ECM that took over 6 months to fix but we have new mechs and new maps on regular basis. New content is great but it needs balancing over everything else.

Got carried away here but yeah most light are really annoying by nature and they will be still event with corrected hit boxes, those spider will almost dessapear like the Raven 3L after the ECM nerf/counter but some good players enjoy playing them geniunly not because its broken. Im ready to bet the UAC5 frenzy will stop once the sells on those heros mech will be over because they will nerf them again.

Hero spider is coming soon and i m ready to put my founders tag on the line thats the reason why they dont fix the hitboxes yet ( kinda hope i m right on this one tho...)