57 replies to this topic

[Liberius]

Hello,

I'm a rather casual player, but I decided to buy the overlord package anyway. Of the 4 mechs in PP, I've been most interested in the Shadowhawk. Then of course, I see the Saber package. The Shadowhawk, Griffin and Wolverine all seem very similar. However, I have seen some other players trying to explain why the Griffin or Wolverine may be superior over the Shadowhawk. Note, I'm only really concerned about the (P) variants.

Is any chassis really going to excel at certain p[laystyles over another, or are the differences mostly cosmetic?

[Bishop Steiner]

Several Notable differences, overall.

Similar stock and maximum armor and ground speed. (9.5 tons of Armor, on average, stock, 81 kph ground speed)
All also have an "empty" left arm that will allow for Centurion style "shield defense".

The ShadowHawk was the epitome of "Jack of all Trades" of the 3, with weapons that allowed it to function, though not excel, at any range. It also has the least jump capability. (3 JJs)

The Wolverine was conceived more as the infighter of the trio. SRM6 and Medium Laser backed by an AC5 for range gave it the heaviest punch. It is middle of the pack in Jumping, with 5JJs.

The Griffin, was designed as a fire support mech. The 1N has no close combat capability, as it's weapons are all useless under 90 meters. It does have the best jump capability to allow it to try to stay at proper engagement range, with 7 JJ.

Of course, with open mechlab, the mechs can be adapted to almost any role, and several of the variants attempt to address weaknesses. The SHD will probably be overall the most versatile, in terms of hardpoints, whereas the Griffin will be the most mobile, but offer the least loadout options, as it carries NO ballistics, and is largely right side oriented in hardpoint locations.

A huge question mark will be the hit boxes when introduced, which TBH, by the art makes me leery of using XLs, but I am going to work under the naive assumption that PGI won't be insane enough to nerf this trio's ability to use XLs successfully. Mind you, I have been wrong before.

a few versions I intend to start from then tune:
Griffin
GRF-1N
SHD-2H

WVR-6R

Mind you, these are rough models, intended to fulfill the ORIGINAL ROLES of each mech, using maxed out tech. These are NOT attempts to minmax "viable" competitive mechs, as thsoe would largely end up boring cookie cutters, and I am pretty sure on ly the Wolverine will have much of a chance in Competitive play, barring horrid hit box issues.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 15 September 2013 - 01:24 PM.

[Wolf Hreda]

Am I the only person who is going to drive their Phoenix 'Mechs into the dirt while practically ignoring all other 'mechs? Except maybe my Dragon. I do like my Dragon. But not as much as I'll probably like that Thunderbolt.

[Racklesnack]

Wolf Hreda, on 15 September 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

Am I the only person who is going to drive their Phoenix 'Mechs into the dirt while practically ignoring all other 'mechs? Except maybe my Dragon. I do like my Dragon. But not as much as I'll probably like that Thunderbolt.

You're not alone there....
Thunderbolt

[Galen Crayn]

If i have my phoenix mechs and in particular the wolverine, all other mechs will stand in the garage ^^

[Bront]

It's all personal preference. If you like a particular play style or hardpoint type, then that mech will call to you. I think the Shadow Hawk will bring the most flexibility, and that seems like a good thing. But some folks like the arm shield the Griffin will have, or the brawling capability of the Wolverine.

Me, I don't have any yet, but might get the full normal pack and skip the Saber.

[Bishop Steiner]

Wolf Hreda, on 15 September 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

Am I the only person who is going to drive their Phoenix 'Mechs into the dirt while practically ignoring all other 'mechs? Except maybe my Dragon. I do like my Dragon. But not as much as I'll probably like that Thunderbolt.

Griffin and Thuds are two of my all time fave TT mechs. About the only thign likely to get my attention more woul dbe a package with the Phoenix Hawk, Warhammer and MArauder

[Bront]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 September 2013 - 02:17 PM, said:

Griffin and Thuds are two of my all time fave TT mechs. About the only thign likely to get my attention more woul dbe a package with the Phoenix Hawk, Warhammer and MArauder

Throw the Crusader in there and I'm sold.

[Bishop Steiner]

Bront, on 15 September 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

Throw the Crusader in there and I'm sold.

mmmmmmmm........ Crusader-L. Mech-sexual-chocolate!

[Liberius]

Right now, all i have is a D-DC. However, while it is a fantastic short range brawler, I find myself getting bored with it. I want something that can close quickly, take one or two high damage shots and then find another target. rinse repeat. I'm just not a fan of light mechs. I've traditionally played mediums or heavies since MW2.

[Jin Ma]

i'd watch out for the chassis that only have hardpionts on 1 side of the body and try to avoid thhose.,

though thats not to say that some of the variants will have the same issue.

[SgtMagor]

don't know much about Griffin or Wolverine, but I always thought of the Shadow Hawk as a sniper/ long range mech. definitely will be loading a gauss rifle on mine

Edited by SgtMagor, 15 September 2013 - 03:19 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Liberius, on 15 September 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

Right now, all i have is a D-DC. However, while it is a fantastic short range brawler, I find myself getting bored with it. I want something that can close quickly, take one or two high damage shots and then find another target. rinse repeat. I'm just not a fan of light mechs. I've traditionally played mediums or heavies since MW2.

I think the WVR build I listed will fit that bull quite well. If you want more brute force, use SRM6s. I just prefer the heat, ammo endurance and RoF of the SRM4.

Jin Ma, on 15 September 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

i'd watch out for the chassis that only have hardpionts on 1 side of the body and try to avoid thhose.,

though thats not to say that some of the variants will have the same issue.

Tell that to most good YLW Pilots. We just feel the left side is mean to be extra armor for our important stuff!

SgtMagor, on 15 September 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

don't know much about Griffin or Wolverine, but I always thought of the Shadow Hawk as a sniper/ long range mech. definitely will be loading a gauss rifle on mine

Hmmm, must say never really felt the AC/5 and LRM5 were a "sniper" build, per se.

But what the heck. Why not?
SHD-2Sniper

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 15 September 2013 - 03:24 PM.

[3rdworld]

As a casual player the differences will probably be just cosmetic. They are all energy+missile (except for the WVR-6R)

My only concern with them: their concept art is pretty bulky. I hope they don't suffer from Quickdrawitis.

Edited by 3rdworld, 15 September 2013 - 03:36 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

3rdworld, on 15 September 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

As a casual player the differences will probably be just cosmetic. They are all energy+missile (except for the WVR-6R)

My only concern with them: their concept art is pretty bulky. I hope they don't suffer from Quickdrawitis.

Eh, all 3 Shadowhawks carry Ballistics in the Left Torso.

[Bishop Steiner]

Must say though, from a quick look, the SHD-2D2 and the WVR-6R look to have the most all around hardpoint promise.

http://www.thewrecki...hadowHawk2d.htm

A little aggravating that 2 of the missile slots are in the Head and CT, but energy in each arm, ballistic LT, and a 3rd launcher in the RT really adds to the potential.

Should be pretty easy to have a triple SRM4 (H, CT, RT) UAC5 or LB-X and lasers in each arm for dealing with the fast things.

Yup, done and done.
Hard to be sure of the heat load, but
Endo
275XL
10 DHS
Standard Armor at:
H- 18
CT- 52 ® 20
RT/LT- 40 ®- 12
RA/LA- 36
RL/LL- 44

allows for:
3x SRM4 (H, CT, RT)
3 tons ammo
1x LB-10X (LT)
3 tons ammo
2x Medium Laser (RA/LA)

according to the really nifty Heat Simulator (thanks Marthe Pryde!!!!)
http://keikun17.gith...eat_simulator/#
a full Alpha only adds 32% to the heat, not counting ambient. So sounds perfectly doable. This might indeed end up my go to build on the Shad. Unless the UAC nerf leaves single UACs viable, in which case it'll either get pulse lasers or 2 DHS added.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 15 September 2013 - 04:08 PM.

[3rdworld]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 September 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

Eh, all 3 Shadowhawks carry Ballistics in the Left Torso.

Isn't he asking about the griffin and wolverine?

[Bishop Steiner]

3rdworld, on 15 September 2013 - 03:55 PM, said:

Isn't he asking about the griffin and wolverine?

by the header and question, I was taking it that he was asking for a comparison of all 3 chassis.

[Kaylos Thex]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 September 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

Must say though, from a quick look, the SHD-2D2 and the WVR-6R look to have the most all around hardpoint promise.

http://www.thewrecki...hadowHawk2d.htm

A little aggravating that 2 of the missile slots are in the Head and CT, but energy in each arm, ballistic LT, and a 3rd launcher in the RT really adds to the potential.

Should be pretty easy to have a triple SRM4 (H, CT, RT) UAC5 or LB-X and lasers in each arm for dealing with the fast things.

I'm rather pleased by the head and CT missiles.

I have some hope that it might provide some level of zombie capacity that the Centurian has.

Even if it doesn't, I find myself fixating on the SHD-2D2 as an example of a well balanced jack of all trades mech.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kaylos Thex, on 15 September 2013 - 04:07 PM, said:

I'm rather pleased by the head and CT missiles.

I have some hope that it might provide some level of zombie capacity that the Centurian has.

Even if it doesn't, I find myself fixating on the SHD-2D2 as an example of a well balanced jack of all trades mech.

Well.... my build is predicated on being able to use XLs, and is certainly no Zombie, but I am pretty pleased with what it allows for.