70 replies to this topic

[ColourfulConfetti]

Morikuro, on 15 September 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

Go ahead and make it trigger an ammo explosion - when I'm charging it. If that system is going to be in the game it ought to be internally consistent with the logic used elsewhere. I can brawl with it just fine, but if it's blowing up just cause there's potential energy feed, why the hell aren't my lasers also detonating? They have energy lines open to the reactor. Clearly it's not the capacitors since I have to do that manually.

Well that is more, common sense vs game balance, trying to make sense of mechwarrior was a cause I gave up long ago, but yeah, it hardly makes any sense, it hardly makes sense that lightning is traveling so slow as well (ppcs) Walking war mechs in of themselves feels kind of unfeasible to be honest. *shrugs* fluff is appreciated, but it is not integral to the game for me.

Edited by PalmaRoma, 15 September 2013 - 10:42 PM.

[Morikuro]

PalmaRoma, on 15 September 2013 - 10:41 PM, said:

Well that is more, common sense vs game balance, trying to make sense of mechwarrior was a cause I gave up long ago, but yeah, it hardly makes an sense, it hardly makes sense that lightning is traveling so slow as well (ppcs) Walking war mechs in of themselves feels kind of unfeasible to be honest. *shrugs* fluff is appreciated, but it is not integral to the game for me.

Well, they actually made the gauss more powerful with the 'nerf'. Brawling is no harder for me, and now you can snipe even better. Instead they have this bizarre double penalty for the same mechanic, that's what I have an issue with. People can claim it reduced the sniper meta all they want, but I still get tagged by gauss shots from hill humpers plenty. My Ilya still blows cockpits out with its dual gausses. You won't find me claiming sniping is the most awesome thing ever (boring), but damn they did not do what they think they did with that patch.

[ColourfulConfetti]

Morikuro, on 15 September 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

Well, they actually made the gauss more powerful with the 'nerf'. Brawling is no harder for me, and now you can snipe even better. Instead they have this bizarre double penalty for the same mechanic, that's what I have an issue with. People can claim it reduced the sniper meta all they want, but I still get tagged by gauss shots from hill humpers plenty. My Ilya still blows cockpits out with its dual gausses. You won't find me claiming sniping is the most awesome thing ever (boring), but damn they did not do what they think they did with that patch.

I'd argue both mechanics work different, the charging time made it less of a snapshot weapon, more of a sniper weapon, indirectly means it takes more time to fire off a shot as well, it makes brawling with it a little harder if your opponent carries a weapon that shakes your cockpit, and the gauss explosion makes xls far more risky, especially if you mount one in your right torso, as soon as the armor is removed from that torso you'll probably die in the next couple shots. Even if your gauss is arm mounted, the Gauss explosion damage carries over. Mounting the weapon indirectly means you can take less hits most of the time. That is my view on it anyways. I did a bit to reduce sniper meta, but not enough, imo, the Gauss still needs a small nerf when in close range, maybe give it a minimum range and remove ammo explosion? Ammo explosion helps reduce the sniper meta in a way but, I think the minimum range would help more.

Edited by PalmaRoma, 15 September 2013 - 10:56 PM.

[infinite xaer0]

Killkie, on 15 September 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

The only trouble is, it's not a sniper weapon. A sniper weapon is one shot, one kill, so the sacrifice of mobility and opportunity for engagement are well worth the risk.

agreed, just because you can shoot the damn thing at range, it doesn't inherently make it a "sniper weapon". Sniping itself is more of a player guided role than it is a weapon system. You can run LL's or PPC's or whatever other kind of long range ilk, and play as a "sniper", but you can also use those weapons to play differently, and that option fosters diversity.. the gauss change though, mostly served to remove the weapon from the battlefield, and I can't say that's a good thing, since it's partially responsible for the current uac5 epidemic.

R5D4, on 15 September 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

I would also point out that in those podcasts you reference there was no mention (at least that I heard) of making the Gauss change to improve weapon balance. It seems it was more a move to "differentiate" the Gauss from PPC's which I would argue was completely unnecessary as they were already very different. I mean come on, how many 4+ Gauss rigs did we see running around vs. 4+ PPC boats?

from what I gathered, the gauss was changed simply to force people to shoot it and PPC's separately. However, if the point was to de-sync a particular alpha, PGI could have just applied ghost heat to GR-PPC combos, considering the whole reason why ghost heat was invented in the first place, was to deal with these kinds of high-alpha issues anyway. hate or no, ghost heat would have been a simpler solution, and tweaks to the GR's cycle rate, or heat, or damage could have tuned the weapon without the need for additional mechanics.

Eleshod, on 15 September 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

It was too much, pinpoint, instant snap shot damage 15 points of potential armor piercing was far to much for a weapon you could call on with a click.

so? all the other weapons essentially work that way. why should the GR get singled out when the problem was people shooting them together with PPC's?

anyway, I know the devs didn't want the GR to be used like an "AC15", but that distinction seems completely arbitrary.. just b/c the weapon had a minimum range in the TT, that didn't mean it couldn't be used like an AC15 in that context either. Not to mention, the people who did use the GR as an AC15 weren't the ones posing balancing problems; it was the GR-PPC builds, so it feels a bit heavy handed to relegate the GR to "long range", when mid and short range use was viable yet not necessarily imbalanced.

[Morikuro]

PalmaRoma, on 15 September 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:

I'd argue both mechanics work different, the charging time made it less of a snapshot weapon, more of a sniper weapon, indirectly means it takes more time to fire off a shot as well, it makes brawling with it a little harder if your opponent carries a weapon that shakes your cockpit, and the gauss explosion makes xls far more risky, especially if you mount one in your right torso, as soon as the armor is removed from that torso you'll probably die in the next couple shots. Even if your gauss is arm mounted, the Gauss explosion damage carries over. Mounting the weapon indirectly means you can take less hits most of the time. That is my view on it anyways. I did a bit to reduce sniper meta, but not enough, imo, the Gauss still needs a small nerf when in close range, maybe give it a minimum range and remove ammo explosion? Ammo explosion helps reduce the sniper meta in a way but, I think the minimum range would help more.

Sure, and it should have ammo explosions. The changes PGI made to the weapon don't really feel like it's more 'skill' based though, they just made it less accessible, which is a bad thing. The sole weapon with a charge mechanic (Bombast Laser) in BT is noted in Sarna as being impractical for users. Gauss rifle has no such thing. It's supposed to be something you can snapshot with, the weight of the weapon and how it blows up when hit are supposed to be the downsides. It's supposed to be a very accessible (skillwise) weapon that you can use to get off immense damage at range - the problem is you get this heavy thing on board that can explode easily. Is it cheap, and does it come to dominate a lot of stock configs? Yeah, it is and it does - that's technology advancement proving that sometimes you have clear winners and losers among systems and platforms. Maybe PGI should have thought about this before they put level 2 tech in, much less the Clan weapons they are going to get to deal with.

But is it a sniper weapon? Nope, it's not. You can use it for sniping, sure, but just like the PPC it's a main gun for you to use at all ranges with a bit more difficulty at minimum range. K2s spent plenty of time sitting on hills last year and blowing out CTs, and phracts and highlanders poptarted with it plenty, but the gauss is more than our one-real-game-mode-super-efficient-fotm typecasting. By the same logic we ought to be having the AC/20 have some spool up extra loading time cause the shells are bigger just cause jagerbombs love to snapshot our CTs, despite all the other mechs who only carry one.

Edited by Morikuro, 15 September 2013 - 11:25 PM.

[CGB Behemoth]

Who said that Gauss is sniper weapon? Why we should use it like sniper rifle in Battlefield? I'm using it like RAILGUN from Quake (was not problem to shot 4-pixel target there), shooting in movement. Average 600-700 dmg with 65-80% hits.

[ColourfulConfetti]

Morikuro, on 15 September 2013 - 11:16 PM, said:

Sure, and it should have ammo explosions. The changes PGI made to the weapon don't really feel like it's more 'skill' based though, they just made it less accessible, which is a bad thing. The sole weapon with a charge mechanic (Bombast Laser) in BT is noted in Sarna as being impractical for users. Gauss rifle has no such thing. It's supposed to be something you can snapshot with, the weight of the weapon and how it blows up when hit are supposed to be the downsides. It's supposed to be a very accessible (skillwise) weapon that you can use to get off immense damage at range - the problem is you get this heavy thing on board that can explode easily. Is it cheap, and does it come to dominate a lot of stock configs? Yeah, it is and it does. Maybe PGI should have thought about this before they put level 2 tech in, much less the Clan weapons they are going to get to deal with.

But is it a sniper weapon? Nope, it's not. You can use it for sniping, sure, but just like the PPC it's a main gun for you to use at all ranges with a bit more difficulty at minimum range. K2s spent plenty of time sitting on hills last year and blowing out CTs, and phracts and highlanders poptarted with it plenty, but the gauss is more than our one-real-game-mode-super-efficient-fotm typecasting. By the same logic we ought to be having the AC/20 have some spool up extra loading time cause the shells are bigger just cause jagerbombs love to snapshot our CTs, despite all the other mechs who only carry one.

Some people just can't adjust to the timing you need to charge a shot and release it quick enough, timing becomes a more integral skill with this mechanic as does keeping a steady aim on the targeted component your after if your far enoguh away to not have to worry about cockpit shake, which is what most people should be doing with Gauss, it obviously does best at far ranges, and hitting at that range, again, is a problem for some players. There is more skill needed for the weapon, it is just different from the skill it used to need, (twitch aiming and some leading primarily) The bombast laser was bad, yes but I'd argue it was it's ;ludicrous heat, my experience with it in MW4 was particularly frustrating, causing me to shut down very often.

How it is supposed to be, seems like an invalid argument to me, since so many other weapons are vastly different than the TT counterparts, the worst is probably the LBX 10, it was supposed to have 2 ammo types. PGI is taking liberties cause they value balance above all else, and I don't mind that at all.

Also by your logic a modern day sniper rifle really is not a sniper weapon because it can also still be used at close range with some success, there are actually a few players who have been able to use COD and Battlefield sniper rifles very efficiently up close, but they never actually start suggesting they no longer be called sniper weapons because of this. Mechwarrior's version fo sniper rifles are less traditional and I don't think its a bad thing, because MWO is a cut above generic FPS games, they don't stick with the traditional roles exactly. And I mean. it still doesn't change that gauss does way better at range, which is the definition of a sniper weapon, a weapon designed to excel at range.

Edited by PalmaRoma, 15 September 2013 - 11:39 PM.

[Morikuro]

PalmaRoma, on 15 September 2013 - 11:38 PM, said:

Some people just can't adjust to the timing you need to charge a shot and release it quick enough, timing becomes a more integral skill with this mechanic as does keeping a steady aim on the targeted component your after if your far enoguh away to not have to worry about cockpit shake, which is what most people should be doing with Gauss, it obviously does best at far ranges, and hitting at that range, again, is a problem for some players. There is more skill needed for the weapon, it is just different from the skill it used to need, (twitch aiming and some leading primarily) The bombast laser was bad, yes but I'd argue it was it's ;ludicrous heat, my experience with it in MW4 was particularly frustrating, causing me to shut down very often.

How it is supposed to be, seems like an invalid argument to me, since so many other weapons are vastly different than the TT counterparts, the worst is probably the LBX 10, it was supposed to have 2 ammo types. PGI is taking liberties cause they value balance above all else, and I don't mind that at all.

Also by your logic a modern day sniper rifle really is not a sniper weapon because it can also still be used at close range with some success, there are actually a few players who have been able to use COD and Battlefield sniper rifles very efficiently up close, but they never actually start suggesting they no longer be called sniper weapons because of this. Mechwarrior's version fo sniper rifles are less traditional and I don't think its a bad thing, because MWO is a cut above generic FPS games, they don't stick with the traditional roles exactly. And I mean. it still doesn't change that gauss does way better at range, which is the definition of a sniper weapon, a weapon designed to excel at range.

Well, someone in another thread made a post where he said how people may actually be more encouraged to mount multiple gauss now, since the weapon feels so different from other weapons that it will be used with only its firing characteristics as much as possible. Which basically would increase the number of snipers in the game. That is the problem with making a weapon less accessible but leaving it otherwise super cool. It'll become a niche deployment.

PGI has already buggered up a lot of things, some of which were really bad (ECM). My issue with the gauss charge is less that and more the double penalty for the recycle time/charge up combination, as I said before.

And well, BT has very few de facto sniper weapons. Having a heavier gun doesn't penalize you in any way aside from the weight - you can bring it around just as easily. Mechs are made to carry around the oversized {Scrap} that gets put on them, as long as its kept within the weight limits for their chassis and the myomer muscles that make them work. I think the sniper analogy was a bad one to make on PGI's part since the closest you get is fire support mechs that ironically use lighter weapons which for some reason hit worse in close.

One thing I can see happening with the gauss rifle in the future is this perception from a lot of players that it got made into an 'elite' only weapon, so all the people who don't have issues with the charge mechanic will smash them even more easily. Meanwhile the gauss itself will be this otherwise great weapon that is also expensive, so it will become an even more polarizing weapon among the haves and have nots. Getting stomped by vets? Blame the gauss rifle! The weapon you can't figure out how to use because it requires timing patience that is non-intuitive when used alongside other weapons, and coincidentally blows you up when it is hit and takes a heck of a lot of tonnage before that happens. Yet some others will manage it beautifully and still stomp you flat in random matches that you can do nothing to avoid. But then we're getting into a whole slew of other issues with that idea.

Edited by Morikuro, 16 September 2013 - 12:03 AM.

[ColourfulConfetti]

Morikuro, on 16 September 2013 - 12:02 AM, said:

Well, someone in another thread made a post where he said how people may actually be more encouraged to mount multiple gauss now, since the weapon feels so different from other weapons that it will be used with only its firing characteristics as much as possible. Which basically would increase the number of snipers in the game. That is the problem with making a weapon less accessible but leaving it otherwise super cool. It'll become a niche deployment.

PGI has already buggered up a lot of things, some of which were really bad (ECM). My issue with the gauss charge is less that and more the double penalty for the recycle time/charge up combination, as I said before.

And well, BT has very few de facto sniper weapons. Having a heavier gun doesn't penalize you in any way aside from the weight - you can bring it around just as easily. Mechs are made to carry around the oversized {Scrap} that gets put on them, as long as its kept within the weight limits for their chassis and the myomer muscles that make them work. I think the sniper analogy was a bad one to make on PGI's part since the closest you get is fire support mechs that ironically use lighter weapons which for some reason hit worse in close.

One thing I can see happening with the gauss rifle in the future is this perception from a lot of players that it got made into an 'elite' only weapon, so all the people who don't have issues with the charge mechanic will smash them even more easily. Meanwhile the gauss itself will be this otherwise great weapon that is also expensive, so it will become an even more polarizing weapon among the haves and have nots. Getting stomped by vets? Blame the gauss rifle! The weapon you can't figure out how to use because it requires timing patience that is non-intuitive when used alongside other weapons, and coincidentally blows you up when it is hit and takes a heck of a lot of tonnage before that happens. Yet some others will manage it beautifully and still stomp you flat in random matches that you can do nothing to avoid. But then we're getting into a whole slew of other issues with that idea.

If people would just be patient with the weapon, they would see the charge is not so bad, using a single gauss and like 20-30 ammo means you'll be using it as suppressive fire or as a long range weapon primarily while your brawler weapons do the rest, I myself use Gauss and medium lasers both, I have no issue with both of the weapons having different respective systems of fire. People need to just be willing to learn how it works, that is, part of the fun of it I think, I appreciate it functions so much differently than a ppc for example.

Yes the bade TT game had no real sniper weapon, but then again, you didn;t need one, all weapons would hit random components not of your own choosing, so sniping in this game had no reason to exist, as it could not target a single component. I think with MWO it being an fps and such that a sniper like weapon seems only natural, and the gauss was the best base weapon for this.

I can see some people claiming it is some sort of elite only weapon, but really, that is no different from something like say, the Baazar's bargain weapon in Team Fortress 2 is an elite only weapon, there are those sort of weapon that are perceived as, "elite player" weapons. That mindset is in almost every single FPS game i know, this sort of idea is common with most sniper rifles and players that can consistently land a ton of headshots. The gauss rifle used to require that same sort of skill that made snipers so powerful in other FPS games, the whole twitch aiming skills and all, maybe not toe the extent that COD required, but similar, I don't see why it now needing some good timing is really that bad. I think using the gauss alongside another weapon is just another part of the skill required to use it. say, like using it with an ac5 or ac2, it is possible to do, it just has a learning curve to it, the traditional sniper rifle in COD or battlefield had a long learning curve too, no? I think if people gave the weapon patience, they would find that the weapon is even better than it used to be.

[Hythos]

In lore, a Gauss Rifle is different. Game-play mechanics of L1 Battletech, it literally is an AC/15 with special functions & weapon detonation vs Ammo Explosion.
L2 rules allow for usage of different ammunition.
L3 rules allow for improvised munitions (jamming in a piece of steel to use as ammo), discharging capacitors, and the good 'ol melee-strike + fire with the gun-barrel burried into the chest of the target.

While the 'creative' parts wouldn't work without extensive programming, I'd really like to see the proper FASA-intended rules.

"This is a FPS game that needs to break the rules of Battletech Lore".
F--- that. Make it work. All we'll end up with, is a game that's leached the good parts of Battletch + Mechwarrior with a faint visage of what it was to its' entirety.

Edited by Hythos, 16 September 2013 - 12:28 AM.

[Thermidor]

"hurrr im totally gud look at dez sick kills"

post picture of himself getting some kills

****** enough to still get crushed in the match.

honestly, unless the rest of your team gets rolled and you are stuck going up against the entire team how do people actually die in this game..... then claim themselves to be good. lol

[Asmosis]

Psydotek, on 15 September 2013 - 10:13 PM, said:

(i still think the "charging" mechanic should have gone to the PPC instead of the Gauss Rifle. The Gauss Rifle is supposed to be already charged and ready to fire when the cooldown [recharge?] timer hits zero, hence the reason it explodes when hit. It would make more sense to have the PPC as the weapon that needs to be "charged" before firing which would make it challenging to use at close range...)

PPC's already have multiple drawbacks, gauss had none. Its longer range and higher damage than comparible autocannons. It was either this, or give it a sizeable min range, at least double the PPC's to offset all its advantages.

Edited by Asmosis, 16 September 2013 - 12:28 AM.

[ColourfulConfetti]

Hythos, on 16 September 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

In lore, a Gauss Rifle is different. Game-play mechanics of L1 Battletech, it literally is an AC/15 with special functions (weapon detonation vs Ammo Explosion).
L2 rules allow for usage of different ammunitions.
L3 rules allow for improvised munitions (jamming in a piece of steel to use as ammo), discharging capacitors, and the good 'ol melee-strike + fire with the gun-barrel burried into the chest of the target.

While the 'creative' parts wouldn't work withou extensive programming, I'd really like to see the proper FASA-intended rules.

"This is a FPS game that needs to break the rules of Battletech Lore".
F--- that. Make it work. All we'll end up with, is a game that's leached the good parts of Battletch + Mechwarrior with a faint visage of what it's entirety.

The TT was a whole different animal, you were not allowed to target any component of your choosing, it was real dice rolly and random, since this an FPS, you really have to change some of the more diecrolly rules and weapons in order to make the game any fun. The lore isn't going anywhere, it still exists in its entirety the only thing that is really changing is how the weapons function, it really is not as drastic as you say. I'm actually not against some of the melee systems or different ammo, but for the sake of balance, some of the weapons must be altered, which really isn't all that bad for the lore.

[Corvus Antaka]

Waking One, on 15 September 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

one decent game in a jager doesn't mean you're particularly good

more weapon variety is good

your wall of text is pointless, it works fine

also lol at wanting refunds for hero mechs due to nerfs

quoted for truth.

[Alistair Winter]

Killkie, on 15 September 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

The only trouble is, it's not a sniper weapon. A sniper weapon is one shot, one kill, so the sacrifice of mobility and opportunity for engagement are well worth the risk.

Who said a sniper weapon needs insta-kill in order to qualify? The scout rifle in CounterStrike needed two shots to kill, as did the G3/SG-1. You could get an insta-kill from a headshot, but then again it's possible to get an insta-kill from a cockpit shot in MWO as well.

Regardless, a sniper weapon isn't clearly defined, so just forcing your definition on MWO is pointless.

Killkie, on 15 September 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

This mechanic doesn't carry a value worth the risk.

A lot of people, including myself, are finding that the value exceeds the risk. We're doing very well with the gauss, thank you. Just because you're not doing well, doesn't mean it's not a good mechanic.

Killkie, on 15 September 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

• This game has too diverse a field of enemies for the specialized sniper. This isn't Battlefield where all the opponents are the same size, shape, and speed (more or less). Light mechs can, literally, run 3 times faster than assaults and they stand half as tall and half as wide

You're right, it's not a Battlefield clone. That doesn't mean anything, really. For the record, I can still hit light mechs with the gauss, even though it's harder. Light mechs are smaller, but they generally engage at a close range where they can apply their speed more effectively. And I'm not the only one who's not afraid of light mechs.

Killkie, on 15 September 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

• In an FPS, your target reticle moves at the speed of your mouse. In MWO, your tracking speed is limited by your turn and twist speeds, making the mechs heavy enough to equip a gauss AND other weapons, too slow to wield one.

It's definitely harder to combine the gauss with other weapons, but it depends on your weapons. It's not hard to combine with other ballistics or guided missiles. And if you're in a big mech, with plenty of medium lasers or other short range weapons, then you don't really need the gauss to attack light mechs at close range, although heavy and assault mechs are so slow that you should be able to engage them with all weapons simultaneously.

Killkie, on 15 September 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

• In an FPS, the breath mechanic MAY cause you to miss, or it MAY just cause you to make a less fatal shot, but still doing considerable damage. The gauss mechanic, as it stands, if you fail it, you get no shot at all. This is not REMOTELY analogous.

It doesn't have to be, this is a different game. And I look at the failed charge as an advantage, not a disadvantage. It usually saves me from making a bad shot, because if I can't make the shot while the gauss rifle is charged, then I'm better off just waiting for a new chance. In my eyes, you're turning a positive into a negative.

Killkie, on 15 September 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

• Because a gauss weapon can't single shot a mech, sniping with one gives away your position and makes you easy pickings for light mechs. It's like advertising "shoot me, I'm defenseless."

What? It doesn't give your position away any more than PPCs, LRMs or lasers. If you're easy pickings for light mechs, then you're either 1) isolated and in a bad position, if you're outnumbered and/or 2) not good enough, because you should be able to take out a light mech, one on one.

If you don't have the skills to use it, either use a different weapon or practice more.

Killkie, on 15 September 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

• It's really hard to get good cover in a mech, especially since so many of them have poor fitting hard points for use behind cover. Sniping in MWO leaves you out in the wide open.

Entirely false. If you're in a Jager, hillsniping is fairly easy thanks to the high position of the arms. If you're in a Cataphract, your arms allow you to fire around corners with great success. Especially mechs like the Ilya Muromets or CTF-3D, which have two ballistic hardpoints on one side.

Killkie, on 15 September 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

• Being in the wide open and navigating a cumbersome mechanic is a liability.

You shouldn't generally be fighting without cover, and certainly not alone where you are the only target. You're basically just repeating your assertion here, so I'll just repeat that the value exceeds the risk.

Killkie, on 15 September 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

One final point, all the mechs that equip the Gauss in their stock build, none of them are set up for sniping. The weapons are usually in low slung arms. Canonically, how would this be reconciled?

As above, shooting around corners rather than above hills.

Killkie, on 15 September 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

As it stands, now, only a jager is set up to be a classical sniper, and it doesn't come with one, stock.

Again, you're imposing your own definition of a "classical sniper", whatever that means, and accusing MWO for not fitting the mold you made. A sniper in MWO is not the same as a sniper in Battlefield, CounterStrike, Quake, Rainbow 6, Hawken, Terra Nova or whatever other FPS games with or without robots you've played.

[Lefteye Falconeer]

The dual gauss CAN IN FACT one shot pretty much any mech if you are using the advanced zoom module and you are good enough (or your target is dumb enough to stand still).

Not that this is what it takes for a weapon to be a 'sniper' weapon, but it is worth remembering that yes, Gauss based builds can one-shot 'mechs like no other build can.

Aside from this, the new mechanic made the game more interesting and less repetitive, and the Gauss is still very effective. It plays like a bow and raises the skill ceiling. What's not to like?

[Waking One]

Hythos, on 15 September 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

... At 15 tons, a considerable % of the total tonnage.... Which doesn't really compare to your point, being invalidated, by the new faster speed being even more 'pin-point'. Furthermore, AC's are that way: high velocity.

An element to defeat and invalidate the "charge up" mechanic, is time: .75 seconds to charge; Ssssssooooooooo.
The charge-time takes less than the Reload time. Ok, great - if I'm a Mechwarrior, I'm gonna start charging the capacitors before the slug is loaded so it'll fire as soon as it's aligned.
"oh, the loading mechanism doesn't work that way" ... Hmm guess Ultra AC's are light years more advanced than single-loads that use no propellant... (the answer is actually in support of a simpler loading mechanism).

Wanna talk maths? A 'Mech's fusion engine produces Megawatts of energy (I'm on my phone and don't want to type out the proof) - but consider the simple function of the conservation of energy (which defeats Ghost Heat, but I'm not arguing that ATM); Basically, every 1pt of heat (Battletech Scale) = 100deg Fahrenheit; 30heat=3000-deg F - so naturally, things catastrophically fail, if temps even make it that high. A PPC generates 1000-deg F, which hopefully, quickly transfers to heats inks for dissipation.

The Gauss Rifle shell weighs ~250lb, less ammunition feed linkage, etc., and is largely Nickel: ~.32lb / cu.in.; 250/.32 =~800cu.in. = roughly about 10"dia x 30" length. The size is for referencing possible wind-resistance - which is technically irrelevant anyway, considering a pilot could use an improvised projectile like a steel girder off of a building for a near useful effect.

With regards to the energy required to propel the volume and mass of the projectile... Again, I'm on my phone and don't want to type out the formula because we're gonna watch Dexter now.. But ~4.2 MegaWatts should be far more than sufficient to achieve 2,000m/s velocity.

Arguement: "Capacitance can only hold it charged for 1.5 seconds..." Not true in Bartletech; that's where all the extra tonnage comes from: Capacitors.

If I care enough, I might post the actual energy required and mass necessary for cap's (that lads, meas capacitors in electrical-lingo).

utterly pointless

gameplay balance > some ******** notion of "realism" in this case

[Joseph Mallan]

To reinforce one part of Killkie's OP. When has sniper weapons paused once the trigger was pulled? Seriously, think about it. With all the other calculations a Sniper has to make why would you want to add one more? It was a stupid decision to put a charging mechanic on a weapon that needs to fire off a hair trigger. Which is different than saying it is a stupid mechanic all together.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 16 September 2013 - 05:15 AM.

[Hythos]

Waking One, on 16 September 2013 - 05:06 AM, said:

utterly pointless

gameplay balance > some ******** notion of "realism" in this case

"A wizard did it" can only go so far. If we're being told that the Gauss Rifle must be charged up before it can fire, and is a separate mechanism from the reload cool-down, they don't explain why it can't be charged before the shell is fully-loaded (cool-down) to where there is over-lap. But, I suppose you missed that while intentionally trolling/flaming.
To argue realism, I would continue about how easily it would be to design the hardware to pre-charge immediately after the weapon was discharged - and electronics can do that quite simply... Ever listen to music with high bass volume?
But yes, that example exists within the Universe that our planet Earth is a part, and can be done now - but apparently not in 1037 years.

If a charge-up mechanic is desired by PGI, they need to explain it is ONLY due to game balance that they must implement X, Y, and Z changes vs insulting the Law of Physics (and most of their customers) in order to state their case. If they were to do simply that, the 'Wizard did it' argument is valid until the end of time.
Instead, we get answers with 'Ghost heat', 'Its a sniper weapon nao', ''intended spirit of the Clans, not Battletech values', and 'that planet didn't belong there in the first place' responses to unwillingness to accept responsibility for fear of greater backlash.

[Roughneck45]

The change was needed to help curb the power of jump sniping.

The new mechanic is fun, and makes it stand out.

My only complaint is that the charge up time was not included in the recycle time. The loss of DPS because of that is what has made the weapon bad, and that's only for brawls, so maybe it should be that way.

That projectile speed is awesome though.

Edited by Roughneck45, 16 September 2013 - 09:16 AM.