79 replies to this topic

[Ymirok]

Hello. It's me. Generic new guy.

Why does this game shower me with sadness? Wasted potential, I am guessing. This isn't Mechwarrior. Rename it to Robotfighters or something.

Sure, it has the famed 'mechs we all know and love... nevermind, there's no Mad Cat. Not a Mechwarrior game.

But let's get to the point: Why can't it be like Dota 2? Now don't get mad and tell me I can't compare it to a MOBA (or ARTS if you so desire).

You know, all the heroes (think of them as 'mechs) are available to you right off the bat. There is no payment (or tedious grinding for that matter) to unlock that which is VITAL GAME ASSETS. There is no rotation. Everything is available. Pretty crazy, right?

MWO is more like League of Legends. Vital game assets are very limited to you. It'll be difficult to counter certain enemy setups. It's like having 20 Ravens (avid F2P enthusiasts) assault 20 Atlases (gullible, easily manipulated P2W sympathizers) head-on. This is only an example. I hoped you could figure this out by yourself.

The only things you can buy with real money are cosmetics and tournament tickets. To conclude; Why isn't this game more like Dota 2 in the sense of business model?

It's too late to change this trainwreck though. And I won't be the one sitting in the fire.

Time to give Mechwarrior: Living Legends a try. Let's hope it isn't wasted potential.

[SjurWarEagle]

You don't need any hero mech to win, you don't even invest a single penny to master your mechs.
I don't understand your complains, yes there are some mechs you won't get with ingame currency, but they aren't even better than the ones you can get, they only are different more like skins.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Are you saying that Hero Mechs are essential to win? Or are you saying that the bigger mechs (like Assaults) are essential and the problem is the time to grind to them and then outfit them?

The right pilots can take 20 Ravens and dominate over 20 Atlases
Every weight class is viable.

[Rushin Roulette]

Which vital gamebreaking item can you only buy with MC in MWO? Im confused.

P. S. About the missing Mad Cat (Timberwolf)... please read up about the game first will you. MWO is based on the Inner Sphere shortly before the Clan invasion happened (theoretically the clanners should be here already, but they got hung up in the customs inspections).

[Galen Crayn]

Dont feed the troll...

[MadMaxMKII]

I payed 15 dollar so far, since November 2012. Bought 2 colors, mechbays and some premium time. I played 4500 Games so far and never had the feeling of playing a P2W game.

[Shaftronics]

QQ more, kid.

A Mechwarrior worth his weight in salt knows how to research basic lore and the difference between Inner Sphere and Clan mechs. It's simply not time yet for Clan Tech to appear, though. That's another mixed bag of issues.


We do have free Mech rotations. Four Mechs every 2 weeks. Enough time to get all the basic skills if the Mech wasn't too horrible stock.


Besides, it's not P2W if you can earn it with in-game currency. Hell, to fully outfit a Mech competitively, you're looking at an additional 4 to 6 million Cbills, at least. you can shorten the grind with Premium, but nothing is going to allow you to buy skills and upgrade modules with money.

Try harder. All you've done succeeding is proving the mindset of the average LoL player. Doesn't work that way pal. Go expose yourself to more games.

[Ymirok]

When did I mention those hero things? I never did. That was also an example. An exaggerated, humoristic example. Indeed, I am questioning your intelligence here. And no, I'm not gonna wait 2 weeks to see what lame mechs I'll get killed in because they suck and you can't even customize loadout.

Even if I kept playing this game I would not give them a single bloody dime. They don't deserve it. I also NEVER said it was P2W. I said it was unfair to limit mechs to certain people that aren't dumb and gullible.

[Applejack]

Quote

Time to give Mechwarrior: Living Legends a try. Let's hope it isn't wasted potential.

Too bad LL is dead.

One of the best if not the best BattleTech game ever, but ... ... .. .

Edited by Applejack, 15 September 2013 - 11:25 PM.

[StarGeezer]

I'm suspecting you're suffering from a rather typical malady that plagues today's gamers. To wit, game titles that don't meet with the expectations (reasonable or otherwise) they have for the game. I suppose with a franchise as richly storied as the Battletech universe, that's to be expected to some extent. However, you make some assertions that are really assumptions.

It is true, certain mechs (so-called "Hero" mechs, and to a lesser extent the Champion mechs) are available for MC (essentially, cash.) While these mechs come fairly well-equipped at the point of sale, they are not necessarily better or more powerful than a mech purchased through sweat equity in the form of C-Bills. The data doesn't appear to bear out any evidence that they perform any better or worse than a decently kitted standard mech. They offer the person who is so inclined to hop right into a decent, albeit not perfect, battlemech. You still need to "grind" mech XP for pilot skills and still need to earn C-Bills to purchase modifications to your Hero (I know of no one who runs stock mechs for very long, even the best among the heroes.) Heros do offer a modest boost to C-Bill earnings, but frankly I earned most of my C-Bills so far on standard mechs without the benefit of the extra windfall, and don't appear to be suffering any. While I own two hero mechs, my favorites are among the regular models you can purchase with plain old C-Bills.

There's no "pay-to-win" to be found here. It simply doesn't exist. PGI, like many other game makers, offers a couple of options to their consumers. You can either invest the time and effort to save up for and buy a "free" mech, or you can bypass some of the perceived initial "drudgery" and pick up a mech that is slightly better equipped at the onset. Time versus money. Either way, they're simply asking their players to invest in their game. Your choice...indeed the choice of any and all who play these types of games...is to accept the game on its own terms, or find one that is more to your liking elsewhere. It really is quite the simple.

i hope you'll reconsider: MWO truly is a fairly remarkable game with a pretty decent community of players. Give it a chance and see if some of its charm doesn't ultimately appeal to you.

[Ymirok]

At least you aren't rude or replying with unoriginal, childish remarks. I know it isn't P2W but the fact that I can't use any mech or loadout right away is saddening and very off-putting.

[Faithsfall]

Ymirok, on 15 September 2013 - 11:35 PM, said:

At least you aren't rude or replying with unoriginal, childish remarks. I know it isn't P2W but the fact that I can't use any mech or loadout right away is saddening and very off-putting.

Sorry i just can't agree with this at all, those game's that give you everything at the start to me don't offer any long term enjoyment.

I much prefer the idea of working towards that next item/mech. Yes i have bought some hero mechs but i have also worked my way through the game at the start with stock mechs.

The only thing that I feel can be annoying is placing those same trial mechs in with the vet's, but that's more to do with a poor training ground rather than anything else.

[Kmieciu]

Ymirok, on 15 September 2013 - 11:35 PM, said:

At least you aren't rude or replying with unoriginal, childish remarks. I know it isn't P2W but the fact that I can't use any mech or loadout right away is saddening and very off-putting.

I just played War Thunder and I know what you mean! In that game you take a free plane, get matched with other free planes or 1-2 tiers above. (50 000 people simultaneously on the server, so the matchmaker works great) and you have a great time from the start. You don't have to grind a bad variant to get to the good one. You don't have to buy DHS to be able to compete with others.

There are no "hangars" - you can buy all of the planes (except premium ones) for in-game currency and have all at the same time! Since open beta I've collected 37 mechs. In War Thunder i got 50 planes in a week!


BTW. WarThunder gives you one "hero" premium plane for free. Imagine that!

PS. constant 60 fps @ max settings, lots of AI units, gigantic maps.

[Ymirok]

Iceash, on 15 September 2013 - 11:46 PM, said:

Sorry i just can't agree with this at all, those game's that give you everything at the start to me don't offer any long term enjoyment.

I much prefer the idea of working towards that next item/mech. Yes i have bought some hero mechs but i have also worked my way through the game at the start with stock mechs.

The only thing that I feel can be annoying is placing those same trial mechs in with the vet's, but that's more to do with a poor training ground rather than anything else.

Yeah, I noticed that too. I usually get to fight people that already earned their first mech. I haven't even won a single match yet. My team always dies.

[Rushin Roulette]

Why should you get every mech immediately and what would that bring you?

The developers have added a feature for new players with the Cadet bonus. You are basically getting a few million Cbills (enough to buy a few light mechs or an Assault mech) within the first 20 or so games. This Cadet bonus will get less over the course of time and will dissapear after 24 or so games (not sure about the exact amount of games).

You will get this bonus no matter if you win or lose on top of what you get from playing those actual games.

Use the time in the Trial mechs wisely and learn how the mechs, weapons and mechanics work for each class before selecting your first mech to buy. Your best option is to buy a cheap mech and using the rest of the Cadet bonus money to change the setup.

Please note that changing your setup ingame costs Cbills (non real money ingame currency) for buying the equipment (bought equipment can be removed and placed in a different mech without any extra cost) and changing the internals (this costs Cbills to install and to remove each time it is changed). The best way to build your mech without using Cbills is to use an external Mechlab such as smurphys;

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab

[StarGeezer]

I'm not certain that is a reasonable expectation. No game offers you the pick of the lot right from the beginning. No MMO allows you to immediately equip the best armor, weapons, spells, etc. right away. No military shooter hands top-tier paraphernalia to newcomers. So it's not really fair to expect to hop into "any mech" or equip "[any] loadout right away" in this game. Even if you were to purchase enough MC to obtain every mech in the game (a rather expensive proposition that I wouldn't recommend to even the most ardent mech fan), you would still need to earn C-Bills to buy weapons, ammo, engine upgrades, etc., and currently C-Bills cannot be bought, only earned. So there is a time investment expectation that levels the field for everyone when they come to MWO, regardless of the depth of their pockets.

You may be unaware of the fact that your first 25 matches actually pay a higher amount of C-Bills to help get you started. This "Cadet Bonus" period earns you extra C-Bills for your matches, which can then in turn be used to pick up your first mech. A person who saves all their money from their Cadet missions using the training mechs can manage to sock away an average of 7-10 million c-bills...plenty to get your first mech and some left over to start your upgrades.

[Destructicus]

Ymirok, on 15 September 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

Sure, it has the famed 'mechs we all know and love... nevermind, there's no Mad Cat. Not a Mechwarrior game.

Stopped taking you seriously here
It's not Madcat
It's Timberwolf
And Timberwolf isn't all of Mechwarrior

[El Death Smurf]

Kmieciu, on 15 September 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

I just played War Thunder and I know what you mean! In that game you take a free plane, get matched with other free planes or 1-2 tiers above. (50 000 people simultaneously on the server, so the matchmaker works great) and you have a great time from the start. You don't have to grind a bad variant to get to the good one. You don't have to buy DHS to be able to compete with others.

There are no "hangars" - you can buy all of the planes (except premium ones) for in-game currency and have all at the same time! Since open beta I've collected 37 mechs. In War Thunder i got 50 planes in a week!


BTW. WarThunder gives you one "hero" premium plane for free. Imagine that!

PS. constant 60 fps @ max settings, lots of AI units, gigantic maps.

war thunder hardly compares to MWO. my gaming group played it a lot for a month and the people who played a lot didn't want to drop down to tier 2-5 planes to play with the people who played a little bit. New plains make old ones obsolete. people who are just starting tier 2-5 planes don't stand a chance against fully upgraded planes, and the grind on that is atrocious, where as I can grind an evening to get the 2million c-bills to get DHS and Endo-steel (the only real expensive game changers.) The only arguable NEEDFULL $cash$ purchase in this game are mech bays, and if play enough to need more than the 4 they provide, the $30 for 20 more mechbays is very reasonable. if you want to reduce the grind, get premium time and or a hero mech. the Phenox mechs are all a great deal and come with mechbays. I personally feel their pricing on Hero mechs is too high, but I see people in them, so, whatever.

[Naduk]

Ymirok
your complaint is that your bad/new/having a hard time
your complaint is NOT about this games business model
as you so clearly pointed out MWO takes alot of its business concepts from League of Legends
and yet League is mind blowing in how successful it is

"Riot Games announced in October 2012 that League of Legends averages over 12 million players worldwide per day,^[49] with peak concurrent global players over 5 million players."

"After Season 1, Riot announced that US$5,000,000 would be paid out over Season 2"
(http://en.wikipedia....ague_of_Legends)
took all of 5 seconds to find this info
their business model is clearly extremely successful

MWO uses very similar methods
its player base increases with every patch (iv been around since first wave of closed beta, i dont need to see any stats to know thats true)
MWO has taken the LOL model and improved upon it drastically new players get a cadet bonus to their income
that means you will own any mech of your choosing by 25 games, maybe 30-40 games if you want to most expensive atlas or stalker, unlike the many hundreds of games it takes to earn a new champ in league

the trial mechs is best for everyone involved (just like trial heros in league)
you can jump on them mess about see if its base config speaks to you and buy it if you like it
there is no wasted c-bills on a completely unknown and untested mech
this counts for new and old players

the trial system has undergone MANY changes since closed beta and all have been for the better
PGI are allways looking for ways to improve it for new players
however, giving new players access to the ENTIRE range of mechs and weapons and mechlab is a critical error that pgi have avoided
there is way to much information for a new player to explore, most new players will get lost and make huge mistakes and then be afraid/pissed off/upset/shamed and leave the game
this fact was proven during closed beta, i my self spent many hours helping randoms understand why having only 2med las on their cat was bad and how ammo on a mech will still explode if shot even when you dont have a weapon that uses it

MWO is setup how it is for extremely good reasons, creating a new like of BT/MW fans is a big one

just like your MOBA reference
League is very very very good at getting players into the game and keeping them there
DOTA2 is for the fans of DOTA1 .... thats it
i have clocked way more hours on LOL that care to admit, i played DOTA2 for 3 games and uninstalled it
i play MWO every day

so, curb your irritation, understand that you are bad at the game
and ask why, what is it you can do to become better
its been asked a thousand times on these forums, do a search for "what am i doing wrong"
you will see that your not alone and there is help but its up to you to find it

[Hammerfinn]

Ymirok, on 15 September 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

When did I mention those hero things? I never did. That was also an example. An exaggerated, humoristic example. Indeed, I am questioning your intelligence here. And no, I'm not gonna wait 2 weeks to see what lame mechs I'll get killed in because they suck and you can't even customize loadout.

Even if I kept playing this game I would not give them a single bloody dime. They don't deserve it. I also NEVER said it was P2W. I said it was unfair to limit mechs to certain people that aren't dumb and gullible.

Holy cow, you really don't get this game at all, do you. There's a wealth of information here, in this section of the forum. Use it! Guides and tips on how to get into the game and succeed, tutorials on how to use the current interface, tips on piloting and purchasing mechs... Pretty much everything you seem to be having trouble with, except the Timberwolf/Madcat. There's an abundance of resources and friendly warriors here: take advantage of that!