561 replies to this topic

[Rebel Ace Fryslan]

What i'm watching is A GOOD game.

But there is a push from those that don't code or create for more more more players that pay.
That's putting quantity over quality.

It's oke if it's rlly needed, but for the founders it seems it's not anymore. (i tend to agree)

[zer0imh]

Primetimex, on 17 September 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

Another question I have is why only Legendary Founders included - IMHO, ALL Founders should be included, Elites and Veterans too - as we all have bought into this game as a Founder and contributed to it in some way.

So please PGI, include ALL the Founders, not just the Legendaries.

i guess our 60/30$ is worthless now for them.

[Heffay]

zer0imh, on 17 September 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

i guess our 60/30$ is worthless now for them.

Did you not get your mechs and premium time when you bought them?

[Hythos]

Zerberus, on 17 September 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

I agree that they have not exactly gone around winning awards for excellent communication and have brought it upon themselves.

To a degree, for the most part for 2 reasons:

1. Some other much larger publishers have worse communication and comunity management, yet do not reap anywhere near this much hate. People simply leave and be done with it. Here, people "leave" and yet continue to light fires and spread misinformation as often as they can, for reasons I`d probably prefer not to know.

2. There was (IMO) a very noticable shift from "Yay PGI" to "PGI [REDACTED] my family and killed my unborn son" that pretty much happened at exactly the same time the game went open beta. All of a sudden, it was no longer "could you maybe?" with a "thanks" when it happened, but it instantly became "Hey ********, why isn`t this in already, game x has it, I want it, I can`t live without it " and "it`s about ******* time you lazy, incompetent slackers". I don`t think that necessarily increased their motivation to communicate more.....

1) No other game (short of *possibly DDO) has has the fan-base waiting and wanting a valuable product, than Battletech players. Because we've had to wait for so long for someone to *finally* pick it up again, it's disheartening to see it fail - because we will *ABSOLUTELY* have the real things before someone else picks up the license to make another.

2) Money. Many of us have paid in a fair amount of money to support a product, and we're promised a voice in decision making. After our opinions were seemingly ignored - without explanation, it's easy to see how we came from your point-a to point-b.

3) both of these were brought upon themselves from gradule lack of responses to shuttling off finances FROM MWO:Mercs into MW:Tactics. Neither are acceptable from a 'professional' developer - and hinge upon "vapor wear" when we were promised elements would be instated a year ago, BEFORE millions $$ more were paid in, and we're still told those elements are still 6-12 months away.

Edited by Destined, 17 September 2013 - 04:58 PM.
Quote Clean Up

[Heffay]

Hythos, on 17 September 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

2) Money. Many of us have paid in a fair amount of money to support a product, and we're promised a voice in decision making.

Promised a voice in *decision making*? I think that's a bit of revisionist history right there.

[Zerberus]

Hythos, on 17 September 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

1) No other game (short of *possibly DDO) has has the fan-base waiting and wanting a valuable product, than Battletech players. Because we've had to wait for so long for someone to *finally* pick it up again, it's disheartening to see it fail - because we will *ABSOLUTELY* have the real things before someone else picks up the license to make another.

So not being exactly how "you" wanted it, regardless of how commercially viable it would have been, is a "fail" and gives people the right to go so far overboard with their vitriol that doing so in a public place would have entire city blocks restraining them?

And no BT game at all, forever, is better than MWO? I think very many long-time fans of the IP would strongly disagree with that....

FTR, I`ve been playing BT since 1984 and even still have the original BattleDROIDS box somewhere, and waited 10 years for this just like everyone else. Yet I apparently do not share this opinion.... And I doubt that I am the only one. I however do not feel that my personal opinion entitles me to do ANYTHING, to anyone, and any time or place.... so the oipinions of the people that spew fire and hate all day every day must obviously be more awesome and valid than mine

And their money is apparently worth more, too...

Quote

2) Money. Many of us have paid in a fair amount of money to support a product,...

And the money that others paid and continue to spend is somehow worthless just because they didn`t spend it on a founder`s package? Or how am I to understand this? Are the dollars of those that feel slighted worth 30% more because they have Founders and hero mechs?

Quote

...and we're promised a voice in decision making.

Stop.

I`ve been around since closed beta, OP:Inception /June 2012 to be exact, and I can not remember this promise EVER being made by any member of the Dev or publishing team at any time. Credible Source?

Quote

3) both of these were brought upon themselves from gradule lack of responses to shuttling off finances FROM MWO:Mercs into MW:Tactics. Neither are acceptable from a 'professional' developer - ...

This is not the place to elaborate on /rehash the dozens of threads explaining Developer publisher relationships, cashflow, and standard 1A business practices used in every single freaking industry on the planet from soft-drinks to space-flight. Suffice it to say that your standpoint alludes to either a lack of knowledge of or outright disregard for all of the above, the fact that neither PGI nor any other company on the planet (that you do not actively own, including stock posession as "own") owes you or anyone else any sort of explanation for what it does with it`s money at all notwithstanding

Edited by Zerberus, 17 September 2013 - 04:40 PM.

[Kraven Kor]

Heffay, on 17 September 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

Promised a voice in *decision making*? I think that's a bit of revisionist history right there.

We were not promised nor did I expect a "voice in decision making."

They also can't listen to each and every one of us, I understand that.

They even did listen to us on some issues.

But the game - in the opinion of many - has just... wandered away from the game we thought they were intending to make based on the marketing information given to us when we signed up.

Too many things abandoned, too many "promises" broken, too many delays, and just... not much of a "game." Shooting mechs with lasers is fun and all, but this game could have been - should have been - a very intense, deep tactical shooter and that is what we thought we were getting.

It isn't that what we have is *bad* it's just... not enough. And there is no confidence there ever will be given the constant missed deadlines - that PGI set; not us. I could even forgive that if the features they did add were moving us toward something akin to the initial vision, not away from. They have added several features we had railed against and... well, not very many of the features we have been pleading for.

And it really does just feel like dirty, underhanded, money-grubbing corporate BS that we are very used to and should not be accepting of. I want them to make money; but this feels like they took our money, promised us one thing, and gave us another. Can that change in the future, can they correct it? Yeah, they probably can. But there is little sign they want to and certainly no signs they are working on it - beyond more vague discussion of possible future content with no real evidence that said content is more than a sparkle in some programmer's to do list - and that makes it all the more frustrating.

[Heffay]

Kraven Kor, on 17 September 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

And it really does just feel like dirty, underhanded, money-grubbing corporate BS that we are very used to and should not be accepting of.

Not everyone "feels" the same way about this issue. Why shouldn't I accept it? I want PGI to make money, so they can continue development and add more content. If their motivation is money, at least you can trust them to make as much money as possible. You don't have to contribute to it at all, but you also shouldn't tell other people they are doing something wrong.

[wintercold]

Am much as I hate to say this in the MWO forums , because I play both this and HAWKEN . The recent HAWKEN Ascension update for beta delivered 10 times more content than this Live status update.

And they even overhauled the UI too.

[Zerberus]

Heffay, on 17 September 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

Not everyone "feels" the same way about this issue. Why shouldn't I accept it? I want PGI to make money, so they can continue development and add more content. If their motivation is money, at least you can trust them to make as much money as possible. You don't have to contribute to it at all, but you also shouldn't tell other people they are doing something wrong.

Exactly. Voting with your wallet does not make you superspecial or mean that you will get your way... It just means you voted, too. Last I checked, the majority usually wins votes, silent or not. Neither way is "right", in this case it`s just going to result in, to quote Vince McMahon: "Doing what`s best for business".

However, "What`s best for business" does not necessarily mean "What any given individual will consider entertaining", but rather "What will bring in the most money". Realizing this is a very key factor in understanding why companies do not always do what a portion of their customers wish they would do. Sometimes even what appears at first glance to be a large majority, as is the case with Vince McMahon ( who, for those that do not know, is "Ze Boss" of WWE entertainment, one of the largest entertainment companies on earth regardless of what you or I may think of sports entertainment /pro wrestling), who`s decisions very often appear to be entirely contratry to what the fans seem to want.

If PGI /IGP decide that killing MWO is best for business / the project can`t support itself, it will die and the Forum Firestartes will have their wish. Until that day, I will continue to play and continue to pay until such time as I feel that the game is no longer enjoyable, and no amount of repetitive "Hey, it`s this discussion again and still only half the facts are true" posting by any amount of haters / "Tr00 BT fans" is going to change that.

Edited by Zerberus, 17 September 2013 - 05:01 PM.

[Dymlos2003]

wintercold, on 17 September 2013 - 04:45 PM, said:

Am much as I hate to say this in the MWO forums , because I play both this and HAWKEN . The recent HAWKEN Ascension update for beta delivered 10 times more content than this Live status update.

And they even overhauled the UI too.

And hawken has been in development longer than mwo like idk 3 years more?

[Chronojam]

dymlos2003, on 17 September 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

And hawken has been in development longer than mwo like idk 3 years more?

"On March 9, 2011 Adhesive Games announced Hawken with a trailer of the work-in-progress, with only 9 months of development behind it."

"Discussion began on the new MechWarrior game in October 2008. In March 2009, after coming up with a presentation for a prototype scenario, both studios assigned a team of full-time designers and programmers"

So, tell me more about Hawken starting development in 2006 because I sure don't remember that ever happening. Hawken's made by a team of under 25 people (unless they've hired more extremely recently), keep in mind.

[TLBFestus]

Primetimex, on 17 September 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

Another question I have is why only Legendary Founders included - IMHO, ALL Founders should be included, Elites and Veterans too - as we all have bought into this game as a Founder and contributed to it in some way.

So please PGI, include ALL the Founders, not just the Legendaries.

Sure, go for it PGI/IGP, that was only a promise, a "core pillar" of becoming a Legendary Founder, and I'm surrrre you meant it at the time.

Honestly, if they did this, I don't think I have any outrage left to complain with.

[White Panther]

"3rd person is disabled in the 12 players pre-made group matches you lucky competitive Warriors" You really don't want to do anything for us do you? How is it lucky to get 1pv in 12 mans when it was lied about in the first place. Oh we lied about not forcing people to play against 3pv but you guys are lucky because we did what we were actually supposed to do in the first place! Lucky indeed...

[Wizard Steve]

InnerSphereNews, on 17 September 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

• Fixed key hold repeat issue for Backspace in chat windows.

It's a sad day when the best thing in the launch day patch is this.

[Wizard Steve]

Heffay, on 17 September 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

35. The answer was 35 Legendary Founders (out of over 5000) decided within the three day window they were given that they didn't want their name associated with the game.

Fixed.

I'm logging on about once a fortnight (or less) and I rate myself as one of the most active golds (which speaks volumes in itself). I'm guessing the vast majority of golds never had a chance to decide.

[Deathlike]

Wizard Steve, on 17 September 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

Fixed.

I'm logging on about once a fortnight (or less) and I rate myself as one of the most active golds (which speaks volumes in itself). I'm guessing the vast majority of golds never had a chance to decide.

Why is it a 3 day window? Shouldn't this have been done like, a week ago, or the beginning of this month?

Am I missing something to the logic of a 3 day window?

[Caleb Lee]

Until 3PV is disabled on all queues, please remove my name from the credits. I no longer play nor support this game.

Wizard Steve, on 17 September 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

Fixed.

I'm logging on about once a fortnight (or less) and I rate myself as one of the most active golds (which speaks volumes in itself). I'm guessing the vast majority of golds never had a chance to decide.

Yeah, I just found out.

[Caleb Lee]

Zerberus, on 17 September 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

I agree that they have not exactly gone around winning awards for excellent communication and have brought it upon themselves.

To a degree, for the most part for 2 reasons:

1. Some other much larger publishers have worse communication and comunity management, yet do not reap anywhere near this much hate. People simply leave and be done with it. Here, people "leave" and yet continue to light fires and spread misinformation as often as they can, for reasons I`d probably prefer not to know.

2. There was (IMO) a very noticable shift from "Yay PGI" to "PGI [REDACTED] my family and killed my unborn son" that pretty much happened at exactly the same time the game went open beta. All of a sudden, it was no longer "could you maybe?" with a "thanks" when it happened, but it instantly became "Hey ********, why isn`t this in already, game x has it, I want it, I can`t live without it " and "it`s about ******* time you lazy, incompetent slackers". I don`t think that necessarily increased their motivation to communicate more.....

Actually, I was really positive and hopeful for the game. Right up until they completely tuned out the community, made some very radical decisions that weren't like anything in Battletech and then continued to implement gimmick fixes for their original bad solutions. i.e. ECM, Heat Management, Hard Point Limitations etc...

Then I became a realist as the 'honeymoon', oh my gosh, their making another Mechwarrior game faded... right up until they broke their word/promises on core pillars of their game design that made me buy into them in the first place. I.E. 3PV, Ghost Heat

Then I became completely disillusioned and pulled all support of the game. I just wish I'd known about taking my name off the credits.

[Gunmage]

Zerberus, on 17 September 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

I agree that they have not exactly gone around winning awards for excellent communication and have brought it upon themselves.

To a degree, for the most part for 2 reasons:

1. Some other much larger publishers have worse communication and comunity management, yet do not reap anywhere near this much hate. People simply leave and be done with it. Here, people "leave" and yet continue to light fires and spread misinformation as often as they can, for reasons I`d probably prefer not to know.

2. There was (IMO) a very noticable shift from "Yay PGI" to "PGI [REDACTED] my family and killed my unborn son" that pretty much happened at exactly the same time the game went open beta. All of a sudden, it was no longer "could you maybe?" with a "thanks" when it happened, but it instantly became "Hey ********, why isn`t this in already, game x has it, I want it, I can`t live without it " and "it`s about ******* time you lazy, incompetent slackers". I don`t think that necessarily increased their motivation to communicate more.....

I don't know about the first part of your arguments, but for the second - "all of a sudden" coincided with the moment Piranhas started giving people for the money they spent. Founders got their preorder packages, and everyone else started buying stuff - and "all of a sudden" instead of excited fans PGI had clients. And clients always have a feeling of entitlement.