43 replies to this topic

[Griffinhawk]

Hey all. I just wanted to share some tips and tricks for anyone fighting a light mech and find it hard to hit their target. I learned from the school of hard knocks back in the 90s when 1200 modems were the norm and I was playing multiplayer MW.

If you had the tonnage and slots you could mount anything you wanted. 16 small laser Shadowcats were THE build. The lag was insane and you would NEVER hit your target if you actually aimed at the image on your screen if they were moving. To actually hit a mech you had to lead your target by at least a mech and a half.. with lasers. Ballistics were a real art form. Which brings me to my tips.

1) TIP: Lead your target... even with lasers. The difference is the amount of lead (Lead means to aim in front of your target so that you are anticipating where the target will be instead of "chasing" them). Distance, speed, weapon, and lag are all factors that you'll have to get a feel for. Laser require less lead as they're suppose to be instant travel time, so you're only compensating for lag.

Lasers: The lead that works for me with lights is aiming for the leading side torso if I want to hit the CT or draw a line down from the arm to hit the legs.

Ballistics (Incl PPCs): I wish there was an easy formula for the ballistics, but there are so many factors that you just need to keep using your weapon and get a feel for the travel time so that you can aim for the sweet spot on your target. I can hit a Spider at full speed on Alpine at 900m with dual Gauss about 70% of the time. But that's because I love the gauss and have lots of seat time with them. A good starting point to hit lights up close is to aim a full mech length ahead of them or even a mech and half for spiders.

TRICK: back in the 90s everyone's ping was different and varied wildly depening on modem and phone line quality. What we would do is take one laser... fire it and a gradually sweep in front of the target until the armor showed a hit registration and then fired the rest of our weapons. You can also make a mental note so you don't have to keep using this method over and over on the same target

2) TIP: Fire discipline. Along with leading, fire discipline works. Spray and pray works sometimes, but with lights, taking some time will pay off. If you see a light circling an ally, don't fire on them when they're travelling perpendicular to your line of travel. Wait for them to start on their approach/distancing route before firing. That way you're minimzing the speed and lag factors in your To-Hit equation. Now you just have to worry about distance and weapon. You'll still need to aim where they'll be.. but usually the buzzards run in a predictable circle.

3)TIP: Maneuver. If you're the subject of a circle of death... see above and take time to aim ahead of them and make it count. The larger guys will find the lights trying to stay to the rear, throw that fatboy into reverse, twist in the opposite direction, and turn in the other direction. Don't be predicatble. You'll get a few good shots this way, so try and make them count.

4) TIP: Lock Target & Aim. You're fighting and you see the little red pointer above your target. While handy at IFF, you can get more info. Press the "R" button to lock your target. After a few seconds, you get detailed info, weapons, and the state of their armor. Now you can aim for the weakened armor sections. Also use the weapon info to decide what to target. You see a target mounting easily over 30 tons of weapons, its a safe bet he's got an XL in his side torso. Much easier to cut through 2/3rds the armor of CT armor that's in the side torsos. TRICK: A side benefit of locking your target... now all of your buddies with LRMs that are frothing at the mouth for consistent target lock will be raining missiles for you. It doesn't take many LRMs to have an effect, the INCOMING MISSILES message has a psychological effect on your target that occupies a portion of their attention causing them to open up targets of opportunity to you.

In closing, fire with purpose. Don't point your weapons at anything you don't intend to shoot including your teammates at drop. Friendly fire happens sometimes and an apology goes a long way. This is a game and good sportsmanship and respect shows style and professionalism. Good hunting and have fun.

[Goldhawk]

Good tips for the players man! I generally run a Spider and have run into players like you at times, just so you know, a smart Spider will see their opponent stop and reverse, and will change the direction that he is circling. Also, I have gotten that "incoming Missiles" message across my task bar and believe it or not, I rammed the enemy mech I was circling and all those missiles trying to find me, crushed his back armor and killed him. I have done this a few times, but if you call in missile support be at least 200 meters away from him. LRMs don't care who they hit.

[B0oN]

Leg them Lights is all I gonna say

[Straylight]

Depending on the relative tonnage difference between you and the Light, you may simply be able to wait him out until he makes a mistake. Most Lights will try to circle you, but they'll also try to stay behind you. Much of the time, "stay behind him" overrides "keep moving" in the Light pilot's mind. You can exploit this.

The quickest way to throw a Light off his game is to break the circle. The easiest way to do that is to make a move that forces the Light to veer off. Sometimes a sudden direction reversal will do it, but the slower you are, the less likely it is to work since the Light pilot has more time to figure out what you're doing and react appropriately. A better bet is to wait until just a moment before he crosses in front of you, then kill throttle, snap your torso the other way, and roll back onto throttle partially and turn into him. By the time he gets to where he thinks your back should be, you've presented your guns to him.

When the Light's anywhere in your front half, he's not thinking about stopping, so he's more likely to overshoot if you do this as he crosses in front of you rather than behind. If he's behind you, he knows he can stop, about face, and be ready for you without getting shot for his trouble.

Even if he sees it coming, he's still left with a bad situation. You've reversed the circle, meaning you'll be able to track with him for at least a moment, and he knows this, but can't do much about it. If he stops to turn, he's standing still in front of you for a moment, if he veers away, he breaks his own line of sight and spends two parts of his turn with very low relative transversal velocity. Either case makes him an easy target for a moment.

His best bet is to break off and dodge into cover, which leads me to my next point: if you have enough armor to survive for a moment, ignore the circle completely and head for open ground or a canyon. Most of the time the Light will get too hungry for the kill and politely line up directly behind you and follow you out of cover. In the open, he hasn't got anything to put between himself and you when he has to make a bad maneuver.

Once you get there, slow and start your turn to engage him like you normally do. He expects this, and he'll try to stay at your back while he re-establishes a circle. Don't let him: as soon as he commits to a direction to dart around you, hit the brakes and twist into him. If he sees it coming, he'll stop and try to reverse course; turn into him and you'll have a shot. If he doesn't see it, he'll walk right in front of you; throttle up to about 50% and turn in behind him and you'll have reversed the circle on him again and put HIS back to YOU.

If you're fast enough, you may also be able to drag the Light straight to your teammates. Most Lights will obligingly follow you there, too. Everybody likes an easy kill, so the best thing you can do with someone chasing you is to make them an easy target for other people. That means drag them in front of your teammates and then turn in whichever direction your teammates are moving; this presents an easy shot into rear armor, and even if your friends are otherwise engaged, they'll often take a shot at the chaser as well. Just be careful they don't shoot you in the back either.

On Ravens, it's worth it to take out the legs since they're big and easy to hit. On Commandos, the arms should be your first target; they strip his weapons and they're easy to hit as well. On Jenners and Spiders it's usually best to aim for center mass, the Jenner because of its odd shape and the Spider simply because it's such a tiny target profile. Cicadas are kind of an odd case; if they're running standard engines they'll almost always be shaving armor to do it and it's worth legging them (the Trial Cicada in particular has tissue paper for armor: only 12 points on each leg); if they're running an XL, chances are better they've got 35-40 armor on the legs and simply shooting through the LT/RT is probably the fastest kill.

[Griffinhawk]

Thanks for adding more tips guys. I created this thread to try and help anyone that's been super frustrated. I've also noticed lights being super cocky and I would like to put that fear of death back into them.

Goldhawk: Yeah I've seen lights do that ram before but really only rarely. It actually helps me when they do it though. I unlock my arms and target at my feet if I'm in an Atlas or they now have less of a perpendicular vector as they try and get some distance again. Great info though.

Straylight: Awesome info, Thanks.

Forgot to add, if you've got weapons in your arms you can unlock your arms from your torso by pressing and holding the Left-Shift. Your arms will move faster than your torso and you'll be able to track those lights better but I've really only needed to do this on those good light pilots. hehe

[Straylight]

Griffinhawk, on 31 August 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

Thanks for adding more tips guys. I created this thread to try and help anyone that's been super frustrated. I've also noticed lights being super cocky and I would like to put that fear of death back into them.

Oh, we are cocky. Anyone who's ever done it will tell you that taking down an Atlas one-on-one when your whole 'mech weighs less than his weapons payload is an ego-booster, even if it was more luck than skill.

Most of the dedicated Light pilots left are good, because we have to be. We're Light pilots because that's what we do, unlike most of the Heavy and Assault pilots in the game right now, who waddle around in those overgrown beer cans because it's easy.

Light pilots don't want easy. We want to earn the wins and we're willing to take the knocks and bruises in the process. Some days you go 0-15 and there's nothing you can do about it, and yeah that sucks, but then you look at the scoreboard and see it's you alone versus six of them with five minutes left on the clock, and suddenly everything clicks, the world snaps into perfect focus, and you think I can do this. That's the moment we live for.

I'm here giving advice on taking down Lights because I like a challenge.

Griffinhawk, on 31 August 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

Forgot to add, if you've got weapons in your arms you can unlock your arms from your torso by pressing and holding the Left-Shift. Your arms will move faster than your torso and you'll be able to track those lights better but I've really only needed to do this on those good light pilots. hehe

Or you can open up the Options menu and un-check Arm Lock, Throttle Decay, and Start in 3rd Person, and fight like a real Mechwarrior.

[Benjamin Davion]

Rad Hanzo, on 31 August 2013 - 04:53 AM, said:

Leg them Lights is all I gonna say

And this is why, as a light pilot, there is nothing I find sweeter than legging an assault mech. The irony is delicious. As are the tears.

[Plonky]

The problem I have is it's pretty damn hard to determine exactly where I need to aim to hit. Especially with lasers, you're likely to hit at SOME point, but exactly where you were aiming when that happened is impossible to determine. Same with SRMs. SOME of them might hit, but it's hard to tell if you were firing more in front or behind them. The problem is made worse because it LOOKS like I'm hitting on my screen.

I pretty much don't bother even trying to hit light mechs any more. Unless they're the only target, there's just no reliable way of hitting them. Maybe it's easier for people in America, but I'm in Australia and the ping just kills it. Trying to kill a spider is probably the most frustrating experience in the game.

[Straylight]

PeenyPoke, on 01 September 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

The problem I have is it's pretty damn hard to determine exactly where I need to aim to hit. Especially with lasers, you're likely to hit at SOME point, but exactly where you were aiming when that happened is impossible to determine. Same with SRMs. SOME of them might hit, but it's hard to tell if you were firing more in front or behind them. The problem is made worse because it LOOKS like I'm hitting on my screen.

I pretty much don't bother even trying to hit light mechs any more. Unless they're the only target, there's just no reliable way of hitting them. Maybe it's easier for people in America, but I'm in Australia and the ping just kills it. Trying to kill a spider is probably the most frustrating experience in the game.

Spider hitboxes are a bit, um, "funny" at the moment, so it's not just you. Chances are good that both your client and the server agree that your shots are connecting with the Spider, but when your client asks where and how hard, the server just kind of ends up standing there uncomfortably scratching the back of its head like it doesn't want to admit it doesn't know.

What kind of latency do you usually see? Thanks to the fickle nature of transpac fiber and big Ciscos that apparently like to randomly throttle throughput, I've had connections to Oz waffle between "Skype doesn't know what to do with all the bandwidth!" and "what connection?", often several times a minute.

At least some of that's my own connection, though, and despite having a relatively direct line to the servers I see my ping range from 30 to about 700. Up to 300 or so I don't notice a thing, but above that things start to get jittery, and above 500 I'll occasionally teleport into a wall.


Anything that boosts accuracy or reduces time on target will help. Streaks are the obvious one here, but it may be worth it to pair them with TAG and BAP to punch through ECM. PPCs also disrupt ECM long enough to send a pack of Streaks downrange, but they're difficult enough to use at short range even in good circumstances.

Pulse lasers will help, but avoid Small Pulses as they're about the most laughably inefficient thing you can fill crits with. The lower beam duration means you're more likely to put damage on a target. If you're chasing something and can't find an opportunity to get a solid burst in, consider chain-firing. It's not an optimal use of your damage output or heat curve, but it's better than nothing.

For weapons with air time, there are things you can do to make yourself more accurate:
--better trigger discipline. Don't take the shot unless you KNOW you've got it.
--avoid dogfights. If a Light engages you at short range, break the circle and fall back, wait for him to make a mistake.
--If you must brawl, learn to let off your turn and twist just before you fire. The fewer variables there are in play, the easier the shot is.
--You can use weapons with similar projectile speeds to "find" your hits. For example, ERPPCs and AC/2s have the same muzzle velocity (2,000 m/s), so you can walk AC/2 fire to your target until you start registering hits and then light off the PPCs once you know you're on target. Obviously this works better at long range, but it's worth knowing how to do.

Also check your mouse sensitivity. Lowering your DPI and polling rate can settle a jittery crosshair down and make aiming easier, especially while zoomed in. If your mouse doesn't have adjustable DPI, consider getting a better mouse. I use a Razer DeathAdder. While I normally run it at 3500 DPI, I've had to tell Synapse to turn it down to 1800 when I run MWO so I can actually hit stuff at speed.

Oh, and avoid wireless mouse and keyboard. They may be convenient, but when an average trade paperback is all it takes to block the signal, that's not good for gaming.

[Rattler85]

My frustration with lights made me stop playing. I just got back into the game tonight.

[Rekkless]

for spiders specifically try and save most of your firepower for after they jump, scare them with a laser or two and then unload right as they land. very few light pilot are disciplined enough to stay on the ground and only use jets to skipturn and it gives you a predictable point to hammer them.

[Sagamore]

Benjamin Davion, on 31 August 2013 - 10:51 PM, said:

And this is why, as a light pilot, there is nothing I find sweeter than legging an assault mech. The irony is delicious. As are the tears.

Especially the assaults that strip down half of their leg armour AND put their ammo in the legs. Kaboom!

[Mr D One]

Like Peeny, having a 400 ~ 500 ping, combined with the spider's hitboxes, makes them near impossible to kill.

These so called good light pilots who have activated "god invincible mode" by piloting a spider, could look at piloting a Jenner or Commando if they want a challenge.

Tempted to buy a Spider myself, as they seem easy to drive, and easy to kill mechs with, and do not get destroyed easily. But then I remember, I have skill and I am not 6 years old and don't need training wheels.

Edited by Dar1ng One, 01 September 2013 - 08:35 PM.

[Koniving]

As part of the laser tip, if you have a TAG you can do the same thing and wait for the red crosshair hit registration. If it marks red, you can hit the target there.

[Capt Jester]

My tip for you all is to trick them into running straight at you and then blasting off their side torso with an AC/20 or other choice high-damage pinpoint weapon. If they're circling somebody else, wait for them to come around their circle to the point where their legs are pointing just about at you and fire. Once you get it down you'll be knocking them down like bowling pins in a bowling alley.

[Macbrea]

When piloting my spider the thing that gets me the most is the other guy having a companion. One on One, a spider is annoying for the large guys. I arm mine in a fashion, I get their attention almost immediately. (LL+2MG). One shot from the Large laser and they pretty much decide, I am a threat and start this crazy spinning like a top. If they have a wingman with them, I am more likely to get legged then anything else. There is a reason Mechs travel in Lances.

[Lan]

As a pilot who plays just about everything (not saying expertly though), I have to tell you that the easiest thing to use vs lights, are streaks and pulse lasers. Regular lasers and LB10X comes next with a little more skill required, then LRM's followed by ballistics overall. Ballistics do pay off in the huge amount due to the focused damage, if you can land the hit. OP has some great points.

The best thing however, is a lance mate almost regardless of loadout.



Here's a video where I go on a 5D rampage, when the enemy gets a numerical advantage - then it becomes dangerous. I did go in to help a fellow mech out but once he was down and three remained, I was out and back to their base. As they trickle in, I pick them off (helps that they too were wounded badly). If the Jenner had paced the Cicada, I would have gone down I believe.

In the end I die to a Atlas who backed up to a wall and a skilled pilot. My mistake was being too crazy at that time and not dodging back into the cap zone. Through most of the video, we can see HSR holding a hand over my spider. In a way, yes, it was fun piloting but I do not want a bug helping me achieve high scores.

Edited by Lan, 03 September 2013 - 07:19 AM.

[stjobe]

Griffinhawk, on 29 August 2013 - 08:05 PM, said:

2) TIP: Fire discipline. Along with leading, fire discipline works. Spray and pray works sometimes, but with lights, taking some time will pay off. If you see a light circling an ally, don't fire on them when they're travelling perpendicular to your line of travel. Wait for them to start on their approach/distancing route before firing. That way you're minimzing the speed and lag factors in your To-Hit equation. Now you just have to worry about distance and weapon. You'll still need to aim where they'll be.. but usually the buzzards run in a predictable circle.

I channelled my inner artist and made a little mspaint illustration of this concept:

[hYlAnDeR]

Nice tips. Sometimes we have to take some very important lessons from the past and employ them even in this futuristic mech game!. I remember those old 1200 baud modem days all too well, where compensating for lag and targeting was truly an art form. The old epic battles between LPBs (cable or dsl users) vs the 9600 or 54k modem phone line users. The former would rely on their packet speed, whereas the latter, whom I respectfully considered to be more skillful, had the ability to not only rely on their computer build, but had the raw skill of compensating for their lag. Granted, now that virtually everyone has cable or dsl, the playing field is pretty even now in that regard. But, lag still occurs and I find that when a player has a keen ability to adjust to the server lag and take apart mechs left and right, well you just have to say congrats, nicely done, and learn from the experience. You have to love this community! So many helpful folks here, it is very refreshing to see. Thanks again for this excellent information!

[Benjamin Davion]

Dar1ng One, on 01 September 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

Like Peeny, having a 400 ~ 500 ping, combined with the spider's hitboxes, makes them near impossible to kill.

These so called good light pilots who have activated "god invincible mode" by piloting a spider, could look at piloting a Jenner or Commando if they want a challenge.

Tempted to buy a Spider myself, as they seem easy to drive, and easy to kill mechs with, and do not get destroyed easily. But then I remember, I have skill and I am not 6 years old and don't need training wheels.

I'm sorry, that's such a load of {Scrap}. Spiders may be hard to shoot, but they're not THAT hard. If you're an ***** in a Spider, you will DIE in seconds. Literal seconds. I've seen it, I've done it, and I had it happen to me when I first started. I have played Spiders in hundreds of drops since I started playing in May, and it took awhile to be able to learn how to play. Jump around too much, you die. Stop moving, you die. Move too fast and get isolated, you die. Fight outnumbered, you die. Let me impress this again, STOP MOVING, YOU DIE. It's less the hitboxes and more the SPEED and the difficulty of targetting me as I blaze by you as 151kph. More often than not, when I get killed suddenly, it's because I screwed up, stopped to line up a shot, and took a volley of PPC/Gauss to the chest. First shot, instantly, boom. It's much HARDER to accomplish that when I'm on the move. Why? Because tracking a fast moving target is hard. Sorry, fact of life. Ever fired a shotgun? You can hit an immobile tree all day long. Try popping an airborne, fast moving bird. MUCH harder. Simply makes sense.