21 replies to this topic

[HammerSwarm]

As it is now many are dissatisfied with the UAC/5. The most recent changes to the weapon include a 1.5 second cool-down timer and 20% jamming.

1.) No RNGs:
This would be a high speed UAC firing up to say 5 shots and automatically jamming at 5 shots. The extended cooldown would be placed at the end of the time you fire to even out the DPS and jamming the gun would take a punitively long time. The cooldown would be based on evening out with the A/C 5 so .75 for 1 shot, and 1.5 for 2, etc.

Examples.
UAC/5: Fires 4 shots with an interval of .75 with a cooldown of 3.75 seconds. (total 20 damage, 6 seconds)
A/C 5: Fires 4 shots with an interval of 1.5 seconds. (total 20 damage, 6 seconds)
UAC/5: Fires 5 shots with an interval of .75 seconds and jams for 6 seconds (total 25 damage 9 seconds)
A/C 5: fires 6 shots with an interval of 1.5 seconds. (total 30 damage, 9 seconds)

It's not "Better" but it is different allowing you to front load more damage at the cost of increased vulnerability.

2.) Progressive jamming table:
This solution would allow for a jamming table that is calculated X = X + 10%
1: 0%
2: 10%
3: 20%
4: 30%
5+: 10%(n-1)

Basically it would make jamming seem more realistic because as you fired you would increase chances of jamming and never jam after the first shot.

3.) Double click to double tap:
It's simple, holding the button down would fire the UAC as if it was an A/C 5 with an interval of 1.5 seconds and never jamming. a double click at any point during the recharge would cause you to fire again,giving the weapon a chance to jam.

4.) Dynamic jamming chance:
It would work like #3 with a double click to double tap except that it would increase the jam percentage as the tap speed increased.
0-0.125 delay in double clicks: 100% chance
0.125 to 0.25 delay in double click 90%
and so on to 1.25 to 1.5 delay in double click 10%
Percentages may vary depending on balance.

This could allow for a bit of a ride the lightening type epic 10 click 50 damage streak.

5.) Revert to the version with a 1.1 second recharge and 25% jamming chance
nuff said.

I have seen ideas like these posted repeatedly on the forums recently and thought compiling them could help people focus on the issue at hand. If we don't like the UAC mechanic we must propose a change, simple opposition is not enough.

[Mechteric]

I'm ok with current values of % chance to jam and regular cycle rate, but definitely would prefer it such that you only double fire if you double tap. Holding down the fire button should just make it behave like regular AC5.

[Devils Advocate]

Dynamic jamming is what I'd personally prefer but that's just too hard to implement properly and would result in more people playing using Macros to help them out. "Many" have been dissatisfied with the UAC5 since its inception, the biggest issue being the randomness of jamming. The version you're using right now is stronger than its original implementation in MWO.

Right now it's double the DPS of an AC5 for 1 more ton with a chance of jamming after the first shot. That doesn't seem broken to me.

[Kin3ticX]

AC2 - 6 tons, 4 DPS, 75 shots per ton

AC5 - 8 tons, 3.33 DPS, 30 shots per ton

UAC5 - 9 tons, 3.33/6.66 DPS, 25 shots per ton, 20% jam rate

AC10 - 12 tons, 4 DPS, 15 shots per ton

LBX - 11 tons - ditto, ditto

AC20 - 14 tons, 5 DPS, 7 shots per ton


Whats the problem? Looks good to me! The 9 DPS at 15% percent was a stupid joke and they were already good at 25% with the 1.1 recycle before that.....

Somebody could go into the testing grounds and compute the new jam adjusted DPS over the long run but the burst DPS is 6.66...better than all other weapons.

It would be cool to get the rest of the LBX and Ultra AC's sometime soon. The game did launch.......Obviously PGI will have to put aggressive jam rates on the other ultras.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 18 September 2013 - 01:18 PM.

[MadPanda]

I like the progressive jam idea but the numbers need to be tweaked. Maybe like increments of 8% instead of 10% because that seems a bit steep.

[Solis Obscuri]

I think they're ok as they are now, though I'd like another mechanism to trigger the "double-tap" than just holding down the fire button. Either a double-click or a mode toggle would be fine.

[Ghogiel]

CapperDeluxe, on 18 September 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

Holding down the fire button should just make it behave like regular AC5.

Why players still have to use macros to make the thing work in single fire at the optimal rate is perplexing.

[Skumy]

I really like the idea of a dynamic jamming chance, or at least a tweak. I back up th idea of rather an 8% rate rather than 10%.

But imho the best solution for me not to break the idea of a 3 barrelled chaingun is to just tweak the damage down from 5 to 3 or 3.5 and leave it as it was prepatch to sae the feeling of the weapon.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Nice ideas OP.

[Karl Streiger]

No I'm not satisfied with the UAC 5... but the main reason is the double shot mechanic.
a 20-25% inceased DPS - for exampe 3 dmg every 0.75 sec.

But that dissatisfaction include the dissatisfacion of Autocannon solution in general

However when the double shot has to remain i would choose option 1 . increasing the jam chance for each shot.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 19 September 2013 - 01:47 AM.

[Cola]

If anything there more powerfull after this patch, now that the only double fire when you hit the trigger again you can control when to risk jamming far better then before. This nerf was a buff if you put the whining aside and think about it for a molment.

[TygerLily]

I like the increasing percentage of jamming idea.

I also saw someone suggest on Twitter that UAC's could also perform as a burst fire weapon (so one trigger pull fires three rounds no matter what).

[Prezimonto]

I'd like to see them eliminate the jam chance. Give the weapon a "stream" of rounds that it fires with every shot. AKA laser like. Allow it to keep up a similar DPS, short term, with a long cool down (4 seconds at least for the UAC5) after each fire.

[Perihelion Jack]

Double-tapping for 2 rounds is the easiest and probably the most intuitive solution. As it is, this game has quite a few complicated mechanics; and not everything needs to be as hard to grasp as ghost heat to be effective. Also, I'm sure MANY players just mash their buttons the whole time while fighting; and as a result; have a hard time with the current UAC5 mechanic jamming them when they weren't trying to double fire.

[aniviron]

Almost all of these except for the progressively increased jamming are subject to being avoided by the use of macros. Any time you can macro your way out of the weapon's downside, people will do so, which is bad for gameplay as it makes the AC5 obsolete and gives no reason to use it. For similar reasons, the first double-shot for the progressive increase would need a small but non-zero jam chance to avoid a doube-single-double-single macro.

The progressive increase is a good model because it does what the weapon is intended to do, according to PGI- gives the gun a higher up-front damage payload at the expense of long-term dps and stability. With a progressively increased jam chance, you get a very high chance of getting a few good strong shots in very quickly, but at the same time are almost guaranteed to lose out on straight dps vs an ac5 over longer periods of time (5-10s?). Your numbers would have to be tweaked, of course.

[pwnface]

I think UAC5s are relatively well balanced as they are now except they shouldn't be able to jam unless after a successful double-tap. It makes absolutely no sense for a UAC5 to jam after 1 shot or in some cases before the first shot. UAC5s should only be able to jam after a successful double-tap.

[DerMaulwurf]

In my opinion the biggest problem of the current UAC mechanic is the encouraged boating. A single UAC is incredibly hit and miss and the performance is very uncertain. However when you bring multiples, the statistics start to even out, so you'll get a much more dependable performance and you can really bank on the increased RoF. Boating is already good enough in MWO, I don't think we need a mechanic that encourages it even more.

Now to use a bit more mathematical terms: When you operate a UAC in ultra mode, you basically get a probability distribution for the amount of shots fired before you jam. At least over a large number of matches, the performance of the weapon is mostly determined by the expected value. But for any infividual engagement, the width of the distribution dominates. As of now, I think it's much too broad.

Therefore I would support option two, because it makes the distribution more narrow.

[MustrumRidcully]

I would prefer to be able to choose conciously and deliberately whehter I double shot or not, and have a non-random jamming mechanism, so there are no lucky streaks of murder and mayhem with double shooting UACs vs duds whose impact I can minimize by retreating from battle.

[fandre]

I like the idea of 5 fast fired shots on one klick with some extended cooldown afterward. IMO AC5 and UAC5 can have the same DPS but AC5 makes single shots and UAC5 fast bursts.

Edited by fandre, 20 November 2013 - 04:36 AM.

[Arctcwolf]

I think UAC's jamming chance should focus on what truly causes jams...constant firing and heat production.

UAC's only seemed to jam when the mech/weapon got overheated, and this happened when u kept firing it.

SO if u use it in quick firing mode...it should have a ghost head modifier adding additional heat to the mech...thus the longer its fired the worse it gets up to an upper limit. Jamming chance should increase as mech heat levels increase. for example, for each 10% heat the mech has, theres a 5% chance of a jam...maxing out at close to 50% around mech shutdown, so 1 out of every 2 shots fired has a chance to jam at high heat.

below 10%, have a 5% chance to jam, so 1 in 20. if shots are fired every .75 seconds...and ur mech can handle its heat...u could fire for 15 seconds straight without a jam...but most players dont design mechs to handle heat well at all, so over time the heat levels will go up quickly the longer the trigger is depressed on the UAC5.