37 replies to this topic

[Prathios]

I am running into a problem with the hate people are throwing at the large pulse laser and how it needs to be "fixed." Now, I've not kept up with where it is at in regards to where it was before, but how it is right now, right at this moment, is wonderful. It isn't overpowered, and it is very, very lethal to literally everything.

I have a mech I call the wub wub machine. It's just a stalker with nothing but 4 large pulse lasers that I run in pairs. I can kill any 2 mechs that attack me in it. During the UAC overkill period, I had no issues taking down multiple Ilya's in it. Because simply put, each pair of LPL do as much as an ac20, fire just as fast and have no ammo or travel time issues. They generated enough heat that I could fire them 4-6 times without having any heat issues. I can cockpit very easily and always place my damage exactly where I want, and best of all, I obliterate scouts. No HSR issues, I just leg or core any scout that looks at me funny. I average a 3+ kdr and at least 600dmg a match, in a mech using a weapon people think needs buffing. I'm sorry but if it gets buffed, this won't be fair any more.

You guys need to try using them before crying about their needing a buff. They are very much a useful, nasty weapon at the moment. Right now flamers and narcs are the only thing I can't come up with a reason to use.

Disclaimer: The Wub Wub is a fun mech for me, It's actually statistically my best mech, but I usually use my HGN 733C brawler or my Heavy Metal. Min/Maxing was never my thing.

[Johnny Reb]

It is not optimal but I find them useful in some builds. Especially this one:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...fde1b2392aa2fa6

Edited by Johnny Reb, 18 September 2013 - 10:23 PM.

[Prathios]

That seems like a pretty lethal mix of speed and firepower. With the mlrs though I imagine it gets hot very fast.

[Spheroid]

Sorry LLAS still blows the large pulse out of the water. The difference in beam duration just isn't enough. Your quad pulse Stalker could easily be a penta-LLAS loadout putting out more damage at greater range. You are not going to control the range with 300 STD Stalker.

Edited by Spheroid, 18 September 2013 - 10:43 PM.

[PanzerMagier]

Any weapon can be used effectively if used by a skilled enough player.

Comparing the Large pulse laser to LL and er LL, it blows chunks. Comparing it to the medium laser... how you even came to the conclusion... dumbfounded...

2 medium lasers vs 1 large pulse. The large pulse generates more heat, takes up an holy **** amount of extra tonnage. The large pulse zaps a bit faster and saves you one weapon slot. That's just stupid.

Give me a reason why I would spend all that extra tonnage to get a large pulse.

[Prathios]

I think the two of you are forgetting something important. Beam duration and damage spread are very, very important in mechwarrior. My wub wub machine used to be a six LL build. I find the wub wub, much more effective, because I gave up my lengthy beam for a more precise instrument. The pulses in the large pulse laser means it delivers far more of its damage in a tighter interval. That means that when I barely tag a jenner running by I still delivered a sizable portion of the damage. In my LL stalker build, I could kill but had some trouble taking out mechs moving more than 120-130. I just couldn't keep the beam exactly on the part I was trying to break. With the LPL I don't have to, I only have to make connection for a small amount of time. This applies to big slow targets as well. With an LPL I can do all my damage before another skilled player can torso turn away from me. The longer duration of a LL allows for more dmg spread.

Give it a shot for a few matches and tell me it doesn't work. I still find the LL to be the best weapon for its tonnage, I won't deny that. However I think for brawling, the LPL is a premier weapon. But seriously, try it out for a few games and tell me it doesn't just cream anything you fight.

[SchwarzerPeter]

The Pulse Lasers are very nice the way they are. Sure, normal lasers are more balanced in terms of heat, range and weight, but like Parthios stated, the shorter beam duration has a HUGE impact in the game.

You will do far more damage to a single location, simple because you are not spreading your damage all over the place. I run 6 SPL in my Jenner and while the short range is a mayor drawback, i feel like a surgeon when i engage

Edited by SchwarzerPeter, 18 September 2013 - 11:35 PM.

[SirLANsalot]

HEAVY METAL

3x LPL = Total world domination.. you sacrifice JJ for the LPL.....but the damage is second to none. Plus that mech is well rounded to all ranges and kicks total butt.

take out the LPL and downgrade them to normal LL and you can get the JJ's on, or change to a STD eng instead if you feel like your losing your torsos too much.



Oh and I LOVE the LPL, and use it when I can where I can. Certain mechs lend themsleves to the LPL better then the PPC dose, and others are the other way 'round.

[Alistair Winter]

Prathios, on 18 September 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

I am running into a problem with the hate people are throwing at the large pulse laser and how it needs to be "fixed." Now, I've not kept up with where it is at in regards to where it was before, but how it is right now, right at this moment, is wonderful. It isn't overpowered, and it is very, very lethal to literally everything.

I have a mech I call the wub wub machine. It's just a stalker with nothing but 4 large pulse lasers that I run in pairs.

This is where I stopped reading.

This proves nothing.

The LPL should not be restricted to assault class laser boats. For 6 months, my CN9-AL had 2 LPLs in the right arm and it was a great mech. Not as devastating as the YLW, but it had more stamina. Now, just equipping 2 LPLs on my CN9-AL causes it to fall over and explode in the Mechlab.

[The Wee Baby Seamus]

Couldn't agree more with you, OP. At first I had avoided PLs, because of the whining and fear of overheating, but yesterday fitted my founder's Hunchy with 2 LPL and it's simply fantastic. They are powerful, pinpoint and if you build your mech correctly, you can deal with the additional heat.

HBK-4G

[Devils Advocate]

I think you're confusing how dangerous something is with how effective it is. I can kill people in games using only 6 machineguns on my Jager but that doesn't mean I wouldn't have much better results with autocanons. I use LPLs as a matter of personal preference over a lot of other weapons because it does concentrate the damage in a tighter area and feels like it gives me an edge against lights but it isn't advantageous enough to justify using 2 extra tons and generating 1.5 extra heat in its present state. Medium pulse lasers are super effective too, but only working effectively inside of 180 meters is crippling. It's just not optimal, even if it can work in specific situations.

[Conan Librarian]

SchwarzerPeter, on 18 September 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

The Pulse Lasers are very nice the way they are. Sure, normal lasers are more balanced in terms of heat, range and weight, but like Parthios stated, the shorter beam duration has a HUGE impact in the game.

You will do far more damage to a single location, simple because you are not spreading your damage all over the place. I run 6 SPL in my Jenner and while the short range is a mayor drawback, i feel like a surgeon when i engage

Lighter mechs have the speed to disengage in fights to cool off. That speed also helps them get into shorter effective range of pulse lasers.

Stalker doesn't have that speed. Instead, they have super thick armor for prolonged 1vs2-3 engagements. Boating LLs is more viable there as you can dish out more damage without heat problems kicking in.

I have 3 Stalkers, one is LL boat, the other uses LPLs+PPCs. The first one is my most efficient 'Mech, it's easy to use and deals tons of damage reliably in every match.
LPL one is fun-oriented build, I got ok stats with it usually but main focus here is that I like to relax with something non-competitive from time to time. I like the particles and sound effects of LPLs and PPCs so I use them as my guilty pleasure even though I know they are subpar to other builds.


So I'd sum it up this way: if you want to build the most efficient energy weapon Stalker, boat LLs. But if you want to just have fun shooting lasers in giant stompy robot, feel free to load up LPLs and let the wub wub wub commence.

Edited by Groovy4life, 19 September 2013 - 02:19 AM.

[The Wee Baby Seamus]

Devils Advocate, on 19 September 2013 - 02:11 AM, said:

It's just not optimal, even if it can work in specific situations.

You're making very many different points here. It's not about what "feels" good, but more about results. If a Mech can at least perform well, you could argue that it's not broken.

But as for your last statement: Of course a Mech should perform well in "specific" situations; most Mech builds, with very few exceptions, specialise on a certain role. That's the entire point. And LLPs are excellent for certain roles.

[DocBach]

Spheroid, on 18 September 2013 - 10:41 PM, said:

Sorry LLAS still blows the large pulse out of the water. The difference in beam duration just isn't enough. Your quad pulse Stalker could easily be a penta-LLAS loadout putting out more damage at greater range. You are not going to control the range with 300 STD Stalker.

Exactly - Pulse lasers need to have the beam duration shortened significantly, to put their damage performance between the instant burst damage of a PPC and the long DOT of a standard laser.

[MadCat02]

Prathios, on 18 September 2013 - 11:11 PM, said:

I think the two of you are forgetting something important. Beam duration and damage spread are very, very important in mechwarrior. My wub wub machine used to be a six LL build. I find the wub wub, much more effective, because I gave up my lengthy beam for a more precise instrument. The pulses in the large pulse laser means it delivers far more of its damage in a tighter interval. That means that when I barely tag a jenner running by I still delivered a sizable portion of the damage. In my LL stalker build, I could kill but had some trouble taking out mechs moving more than 120-130. I just couldn't keep the beam exactly on the part I was trying to break. With the LPL I don't have to, I only have to make connection for a small amount of time. This applies to big slow targets as well. With an LPL I can do all my damage before another skilled player can torso turn away from me. The longer duration of a LL allows for more dmg spread.

Give it a shot for a few matches and tell me it doesn't work. I still find the LL to be the best weapon for its tonnage, I won't deny that. However I think for brawling, the LPL is a premier weapon. But seriously, try it out for a few games and tell me it doesn't just cream anything you fight.

At 300-600 meters i can hit center torso just fine . Beyond that Pulse laser dosen't even reach so why have it at all

[Enigmos]

STK 5M LPL build STK 5M LL Build

Edited by OriginalTibs, 19 September 2013 - 06:25 AM.

[Dan Nashe]

To be fair, lpls are also I believe 2.75 dps and lls are only 2.12.
And the ghost heat cap is 2.
So 4.14 vs 5.5
That said. 4 seems too much.
I love to pair lpl with ac 20.
Somehow my atlas d with 2 lpl, 2 ml, and an ac 20 is my best atlas kill to death wise.

I agree 6ml is better than 2 lpl.
But hard to find the hard points!

Hmm. Stalker with 2 lpl and an ac 20... misery yes?
My attempt to run 4-5 ll was terrible.
I just can't keep beams on target long enough to be eff ctve with shoot me now large lasers.
That said, I last tried lls when snipers were in vogue. Large lasers might be less suicidal now.

Also I've had great luck killing lights with ac 20s so I like the combination for that reason.

I wouldn't say no to reducing the lpl bam duration to 0.5 though. But it should never be lower than that or it will lose the laser flavor.

[The Wee Baby Seamus]

MadCat02, on 19 September 2013 - 05:49 AM, said:

At 300-600 meters i can hit center torso just fine . Beyond that Pulse laser dosen't even reach so why have it at all

You use them on a brawler, get close and enjoy the fireworks.

[Ngamok]

PanzerMagier, on 18 September 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:

Give me a reason why I would spend all that extra tonnage to get a large pulse.

I can leg lights with them pretty easily.

[PanzerMagier]

DanNashe, on 19 September 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

To be fair, lpls are also I believe 2.75 dps and lls are only 2.12.
And the ghost heat cap is 2.
So 4.14 vs 5.5
That said. 4 seems too much.
I love to pair lpl with ac 20.
Somehow my atlas d with 2 lpl, 2 ml, and an ac 20 is my best atlas kill to death wise.

I agree 6ml is better than 2 lpl.
But hard to find the hard points!

Hmm. Stalker with 2 lpl and an ac 20... misery yes?
My attempt to run 4-5 ll was terrible.
I just can't keep beams on target long enough to be eff ctve with shoot me now large lasers.
That said, I last tried lls when snipers were in vogue. Large lasers might be less suicidal now.

Also I've had great luck killing lights with ac 20s so I like the combination for that reason.

I wouldn't say no to reducing the lpl bam duration to 0.5 though. But it should never be lower than that or it will lose the laser flavor.

Yes because let's completely forget about heat and range. 2 LPL takes 4 extra tons than 2 LL and generate almost a 3rd LL's heat on their own.

Heat wise 2 LL or 3LL > 2LPL
Range wise 2 LL > 2 LPL
still think that .4 is a little too much?

And you only need 4 (NOT 6!) medium lasers to outperform 2 LPL. Less heat almost same range, a save of whopping 10 tons.

Ngamok, on 19 September 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

I can leg lights with them pretty easily.

I can do exactly the same with regular mediums/large lasers.
So that's quite a rubbish reason. I'd rather get more armour/bigger engine thanks.

So my argument remains, why would I take a LPL if I could just take 2 mediums instead? What is making me WANT to spend that extra 5 tons? 5 tons is A LOT if you're trying to make a neat build. As it stands now I'd rather take mediums or regular large lasers since they're much more efficient, in overall performance. Heck even the PPC out performs the LPL somewhat.

And that's the bottom line, heat will determine who can shoot more lasers. and brawling with LPL just doesn't cut it for me. I'd love to see them become brawler staples but they're just rubbish at the moment.

Edited by PanzerMagier, 19 September 2013 - 07:08 AM.