60 replies to this topic

[Johnny Marek Summers]

Well if you think your K2 is great now, just wait until you elites are finished on that mech. The bonuses on the basic skills doubles.

[Recon777]

Well, I finished all the basic upgrades. That didn't take long. Got 6000XP leftover too. I guess this means I should save up for the 2nd Catapult variant doesn't it. Lovin the K2 in a serious way. Its more effective than I thought it'd be. No buyer's remorse here. Now hopefully I can Elite it.

[Raghnall]

This is definately a grind. I am an Atlas pilot and I am not having any funny atm.

I even got one shotted a moment ago which i found absurd...

[eblackthorn]

Cataphract is a good choice for a first mech, Its what I would recommend you get a good range of ballistics and energy hard points and one variant has JJ's, your missile options are limited though so keep that in mind if that's your thing. If you like ballistics you can't go wrong with a Jager, they are compact and have high arm mounts making it easier to shoot over terain.


... and then I read you got a Cat Enjoy

Edited by eblackthorn, 20 September 2013 - 09:08 PM.

[Euphor Kell]

K2's are great, i noticed you were really having fun in that game we were together, but just be careful about being gun-ho in the thing, like you said, stand near a bigger target, and they generally leave you alone.

so your next choice is what sort of missile boat to get? none of the other cats have ballistic slots, so you gotta rely on missiles and lasers (missiles mostly, although the C1 can get some unusual laser/ppc based designs)

[Appogee]

If I had a CBill for every new player who says they ''prefer long range'' and ''want a missile boat''...

I know it initially seems appealing to stand back from the fight, locking targets and having your weapons find their way to target all by themselves, without exposing yourself to enemy fire..

However, you won't get all that many points for it, any Light Mech that flanks your team will kill you, and you'll be denying your team a Heavy Mech which should be delivering more damage through the battle.

A Heavy with a broader array of weapons (from medium to long range) is actually a better place to start. Plus you will be learning skills (eg. leading, aiming, managing heat) that you'll need to do well in the game over time.

Edited by Appogee, 21 September 2013 - 04:18 AM.

[Denolven]

Recon777, on 20 September 2013 - 08:08 PM, said:

I guess this means I should save up for the 2nd Catapult variant doesn't it. Lovin the K2 in a serious way. Its more effective than I thought it'd be. No buyer's remorse here. Now hopefully I can Elite it.

That depends. I always recommend people to go for different Mechs first, because it's jus a matter of time until you will find it boring to always play the same avatar. Yes the Jenner will delay your elite skills. But then again the gameplay doesn't really change that much with elite skills, it's still a K2.
The Jenner on the other hand has a different gameplay. And if that gameplay looks fun to you, then go for it. Then you can always chose which one fits better to your current mood. Sometimes I just feel like backstabbing someone.

By the way, I recommend a more balanced build for the Jenner F. This is how I play mine: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c9f24af93d715ea
Advantages over your build:

• more armor (you'll definitely need this)
  
• more flexible heat management - just use the two normal lasers when heat is high
  
• more flexible range management - sometimes you want to kill that big red blinking torso at 500m quickly (normal mediums still do a little damage at up to 500m, max range is 540)
  
• BAP allows you to let you fight an ECM scout and still letting your team know about it; also allows you to get behind that enemy Atlas DC and deactivate his ECM so the whole team knows about him; and last but not least the info gathering is sped up which is nice to make your decisions quicker
  
• Jumpjets! Big helper to go in and out as you please. Exactly what a fast but vulnerable striker needs.

As you see, alot of that includes info gathering, often by locking someone so your team knows what's going on, or for you to immediately see that one red blinking weakspot of the opponent.

Disadvantages over your build:

• slower - I found that 130+ kph is all you really need, unless you want to max out speed and do nothing but cap and light hunting
  
• 2 less alpha damage for backstabbing - I think you can handle that

I played 6 MPulse for a while, but found the added versatility worth alot more than those extra 20 kph. At 130+ you are by far faster than any non-light anyway. And lights probably don't want to face your 6 lasers so they'll not stick around to fight you.

Recommended modules: 360° target retention (keeps the people you circle locked) and target info gathering (more infos faster, to look for weakspots)

If another light gets support, just run far enough to split them. If he follows you, he thinks he will win. Then turn 180° and give him 6 lasers in the face.

Why no AMS? Well first you have a little tonnage problem due to carrying lots of dakka (for a light). Also it gives your position away, which you don't really want when sitting in an assassin mech. And last but not least you will probably never be close to the ally mob to provide anti missile support for your bigger buddies, because you are running around in the enemy territory, looking for an opening to cause trouble. You are fast enough to avoid LRMs yourself, so it would neither benefit you nor your team.

Don't judge the Jenner as a scout. At least the F variant isn't. It's an assassin. Look for openings, seek and destroy, return to the shadows. Pick your targets, strike fast and hard, strike from an unexpected direction and leave them in doubt from where you'll strike next.
Most important: survive as long as possible, even if you don't feel usefull. Once the formations lose up a bit and people are damaged from previous fights, your time as an assassin comes.

Edited by Denolven, 21 September 2013 - 04:11 AM.

[Recon777]

That's very cool stuff. I hear what you're saying about the elite vs varying chassis. For me fortunately the different Catapults provide a lot of the toys I really want to have in my arsenal. The grind isn't as painful as I had thought. We'll see how it goes I may change my mind.
Got nearly 7m to spend at the moment.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Recon777, on 21 September 2013 - 04:30 AM, said:

That's very cool stuff. I hear what you're saying about the elite vs varying chassis. For me fortunately the different Catapults provide a lot of the toys I really want to have in my arsenal. The grind isn't as painful as I had thought. We'll see how it goes I may change my mind.
Got nearly 7m to spend at the moment.

I have found the grind is relative to how much attention you pay to it: If you are focused solely on getting that next mech/weapon/skill/upgrade (double heat-sinks are killer for that last one >.< ) then the grind gets killer - especially if you are on a losing streak.

If you are simply having fun playing your mechs: then you are hardly aware of the grind, if you notice it at all

[scJazz]

Appogee, on 21 September 2013 - 03:30 AM, said:

If I had a CBill for every new player who says they ''prefer long range'' and ''want a missile boat''...

I know it initially seems appealing to stand back from the fight, locking targets and having your weapons find their way to target all by themselves, without exposing yourself to enemy fire..

LRMs are definitely one of those low barrier to entry weapons with an incredibly high skill threshold.

Anyone can stick LRMs on a Mech and use them and suck at it.

Sticking LRMs on a Mech and being downright evil with their use causing in Match Text EmoRageTears requires skill.

[Appogee]

scJazz, on 21 September 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

Anyone can stick LRMs on a Mech and use them and suck at it.

I think it's more knowledge than skill, to be honest.

Noobs are unlikely to be aware that they need to add Artemis, TAG and probably BAP to make their LRMing more effective, as well as buy Target Retention modules and the like.

And it's very unlikely they'll know enough about the tradeoffs between the refire rates and tonnages of different LRM packs, etc, to optimize an LRM loadout.

Then add considerations such as how much ammo, where to store it, whether case is needed, etc.

That's why I encourage them not to boat LRMs at the outset. They are hampering their own advancement (and their team's chances of winning).

Edited by Appogee, 21 September 2013 - 11:51 AM.

[Denolven]

Its not a matter of LRM or not. A newbie is a newbie is a newbie. Let them play around and find out themselves what is working and what is not, and answer their questions or give hints when watching them making a newbie mistake (like weapon range stuff for example).
Telling them to **** off and not play anything because they are a burden, won't do the game any good in the long run.
Just like in real life, you need to train the younger ones. If you don't, your civilization will die. It's not a burden, it's a needed investment.

[Recon777]

Denolven, on 21 September 2013 - 03:30 AM, said:

That depends. I always recommend people to go for different Mechs first, because it's jus a matter of time until you will find it boring to always play the same avatar. Yes the Jenner will delay your elite skills. But then again the gameplay doesn't really change that much with elite skills, it's still a K2.
The Jenner on the other hand has a different gameplay. And if that gameplay looks fun to you, then go for it. Then you can always chose which one fits better to your current mood. Sometimes I just feel like backstabbing someone.

By the way, I recommend a more balanced build for the Jenner F. This is how I play mine: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c9f24af93d715ea

...

Don't judge the Jenner as a scout. At least the F variant isn't. It's an assassin. Look for openings, seek and destroy, return to the shadows. Pick your targets, strike fast and hard, strike from an unexpected direction and leave them in doubt from where you'll strike next.
Most important: survive as long as possible, even if you don't feel usefull. Once the formations lose up a bit and people are damaged from previous fights, your time as an assassin comes.

Denolven, I am taking your advice very seriously, and have designed a Jenner-F loadout which I think I am anxious to try.

I would be very interested in feedback on this. There's always the chance that I've overlooked a glaring flaw.

JR7-F - Annoyance

A PPC Jenner that may actually be worth using regularly.

The idea here is to maximize your survivability, while still causing significant and constant irritation to the enemy. Something like this, I anticipate being ideal for getting people out of a cap zone, or hunting snipers, or just being really frickin' annoying. It has enough heat dissipation to fire the PPC nearly nonstop. It has max speed, which makes you really hard to hit by anything at PPC range. It also has very close to maximum armor (to be said in the Crysis voice of course) so that you an take quite a few hits. I sacrificed the jump jets because I don't think they're needed for this role. The BAP is there to give you the intel you need to hunt your targets better and also not encounter any unwelcome surprises. The triple Small Pulse Lasers are for encounters within the PPC threshold of 90 meters. Still decent damage and you should be able to hold your own if you are ambushed by another Light. Anything bigger, you can just run away from and poke at him from a distance with near impunity. This is not meant to be a high-alpha Jenner. Its meant to stay in the game and continue to provide a constant annoyance to the enemy from a nearly unreachable position. If you're a good pilot and are on top of your situational awareness, I think this mech might be a winner.

[Denolven]

Recon777, on 21 September 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

JR7-F - Annoyance
If you're a good pilot and are on top of your situational awareness, I think this mech might be a winner.

In fact, I think this might be effective in the right hands, but it's very hard to play. The PPC is nice, no arguing there. It also allows to punch a hole in an ECM bubble. I like that part.
But I see a problem in close combat. The only opponents you need to care about are lights, because for everything else you can pick your fights/range. So the question is: can you handle lights in close combat with your 3 small pulse lasers? It's barely a threat.
I think to be a threat, you need to fight at 80-100 meters and use both the lasers and the PPC; AND have enough skill to hit the light with the PPC. But I might be wrong here, it needs to be tested. If the lasers are enough, you're set. If not, you need to constantly remember your sweet spot range 80-100, plus making the weapons hit. Both not easy when fighting a light. But if you can handle that, I bow before you.

Concerning the JJ let me explain why they are so important:

• Movement = defence. You are sitting in a light, meaning that one high and precise alpha can kill you. That means you need movement superiority to deny that precision. It also helps with skirmishing in general.
  
• Pathes. Take a look at the maps. Take River City as a simple example. Make a test game on that map, once with JJ and once without. Walk in the middle of the river and then try to get out of it. Look for the differences. Having no JJ seriously limits the pathes you can go. Extreme example: Canyon Network. If you have speed and JJ there, you rule them all. They allow you to go wherever you want, effectively increasing your speed by ALOT (shortcuts), and allowing you to strike from unexpected directions/positions, as well as fleeing from bad situations by using the terrain to your advantage.
  
• Tasks. The only reason to take a max engine is because you can, or for hunting other lights. Maybe use a slightly smaller than max engine and put two JJ in. Being 5 kph faster offers little utility, while having JJ helps you in many tasks. Also, when following a light, you can slightly cut the corners they run, which compensates for the 5 kph drawback.

Proposal
(1.5 tons less speed, 2 JJ, maxed armor, shifted more armor to front center torso - you will learn quickly why)

If you can master that build, you can count yourself to the top notch players. Let me know about the close range test results

Edited by Denolven, 22 September 2013 - 01:39 AM.

[Recon777]

One really good thing is that if it ends up not working, I can just buy 3 more small pulse lasers to replace the PPC with, along with adding 3 jump jets and 3 heat sinks, and get this build at pretty much no extra cost.

I appreciate your honest criticism about the challenges of the build. I think it may have some good potential, but I totally agree that it will be something to really work the skills up to in order to be really good at it.

Edited by Recon777, 22 September 2013 - 02:38 AM.

[Euphor Kell]

One of the things i do like about it is the fact that some people will write it off. And that is their mistake to make, punish them for it, but like denolven said, keeping within 80-100m of an enemy is a skill, no art, in itself. Good luck.

[Recon777]

OMG it is FUN FUN FUN. Its definitely not the highest scoring mech I could play, but its HEAPS of fun.

I finally finished buying all the parts. The PPC is great. The small lasers aren't all that useful but when there were enemy lights in the mix, they came in handy. I get lots of assists because I'm poking just about everybody.

This mech definitely has a really interesting role. If I find a heavy or assault mech and poke him with the PPC, it definitely gets his attention. Usually resulting in some kind of pursuit. Quite often missiles, which I hadn't thought of, so I may want to put an AMS on somehow. Canyon Network is great fun, because I can stand on one ridge and hide behind a big rock, and poke at the big mechs on the other ridge. Caustic Valley is also really good for this mech, especially once all the big mechs start duking it out on the caldera ridge. One thing I noticed is that if I wait until my team shows up, I am mostly ignored, and can fire my PPC with near impunity. If someone does notice me, all I have to do is change position or fire at someone else. When my team is engaged, nobody wants to pay attention to the little Jenner, even if he does have a PPC. I even got a few big mech kills with it but not by myself. Another great thing the mech is useful for is anti capping. If someone is capping my base, I can run back and usually push him off the capture point from a distance, but the cool part is I can get there really fast. If its just a light capping, he has to leave. If its something bigger, I'll need backup.

All in all, a win. And I have no skills yet. I imagine the more I play it, the better things will get.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Appogee, on 21 September 2013 - 03:30 AM, said:

If I had a CBill for every new player who says they ''prefer long range'' and ''want a missile boat''...

I know it initially seems appealing to stand back from the fight, locking targets and having your weapons find their way to target all by themselves, without exposing yourself to enemy fire..

However, you won't get all that many points for it, any Light Mech that flanks your team will kill you, and you'll be denying your team a Heavy Mech which should be delivering more damage through the battle.

A Heavy with a broader array of weapons (from medium to long range) is actually a better place to start. Plus you will be learning skills (eg. leading, aiming, managing heat) that you'll need to do well in the game over time.

I hear ya, but pain is an effective teacher. Course this from a guy who used to run a Raven with a LRM-10

[Euphor Kell]

Nick Makiaveli, on 22 September 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

I hear ya, but pain is an effective teacher. Course this from a guy who used to run a Raven with a LRM-10

Wow that'd be annoying to anything without ams, especially if you put it in the narc tube

[Nick Makiaveli]

Euphor Kell, on 22 September 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

Wow that'd be annoying to anything without ams, especially if you put it in the narc tube

Heh, yea some games I doubt I did 4 damage with it, others I had 2-3 kills and 8 assists Quickly learned to watch to see if anyone else had LRMs and just follow them around.

I figured worst case, I added something to my armory. Now my taste runs more to a LL and a couple MPL (ie similar to the PPC Jenner above). I have better luck with the laser for some reason.

Point taken, Denolven, on the JJs. Never really used them before, and always ditched them for armor etc. I see your point and will give it a shot. Almost have Basic on my 3rd Jenner and have 10K or so on Sarah's so may stick some on there and experiment a bit.