29 replies to this topic

[Master Maniac]

Bad idea is a bad idea. Sorry.

Why is it a bad idea? Because the "perfect" aim you're complaining about *isn't* perfect - you fail to account for user error, separation of the arms/torso reticles, and that fact that aiming while on the move is *already* difficult, especially when the attacker and the target are BOTH moving full speed. Laser-based weapons *rarely* - if ever - manage to do concentrated damage on one section of a target, unless that target is sitting there unmoving. You also neglect the fact that most mechs have arms which actually have to converge on the aimpoint, which also impacts accuracy. This can be observed on the Atlas, as well as the Orion.

In short, aiming is already hard enough, and is far from 'perfectly precise' given the free-aiming aspect of the non-arm locked crosshair. Your solution is to make weapons even *less* precise than they already are, which would make anything short of high-damage/no-duration weapons infuriatingly inefficient to use.

Unless of course your whole idea is to *force* "teamwork," and by that I mean making every weapon effectively useless unless three or more mechs are hitting a single target - which seems to be the norm these days among "gamers" without reflexes or the ability to think tactically - and if that's the case then I say NO WAY NOT EVER NO SIR.

[Zyllos]

Master Maniac, on 21 September 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

Bad idea is a bad idea. Sorry.

Why is it a bad idea? Because the "perfect" aim you're complaining about *isn't* perfect - you fail to account for user error, separation of the arms/torso reticles, and that fact that aiming while on the move is *already* difficult, especially when the attacker and the target are BOTH moving full speed. Laser-based weapons *rarely* - if ever - manage to do concentrated damage on one section of a target, unless that target is sitting there unmoving. You also neglect the fact that most mechs have arms which actually have to converge on the aimpoint, which also impacts accuracy. This can be observed on the Atlas, as well as the Orion.

In short, aiming is already hard enough, and is far from 'perfectly precise' given the free-aiming aspect of the non-arm locked crosshair. Your solution is to make weapons even *less* precise than they already are, which would make anything short of high-damage/no-duration weapons infuriatingly inefficient to use.

Unless of course your whole idea is to *force* "teamwork," and by that I mean making every weapon effectively useless unless three or more mechs are hitting a single target - which seems to be the norm these days among "gamers" without reflexes or the ability to think tactically - and if that's the case then I say NO WAY NOT EVER NO SIR.

This is wrong and easily tested.

If you and your target are moving at full speed, you can aim and fire 2 PPCs, they will both land on the same location.

The only time weapons damage isn't hitting the same location is if your too far away and your weapon had travel time, then your crosshair is converging onto area ahead of the mech instead of on the mech.

The only problem I have with this idea is that there is no left/right sway and weapons fired still all hit a single point.

[Master Maniac]

Zyllos, on 21 September 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

This is wrong and easily tested.

If you and your target are moving at full speed, you can aim and fire 2 PPCs, they will both land on the same location.

The only time weapons damage isn't hitting the same location is if your too far away and your weapon had travel time, then your crosshair is converging onto area ahead of the mech instead of on the mech.

The only problem I have with this idea is that there is no left/right sway and weapons fired still all hit a single point.

What exactly is "wrong?" That laser fire practically *never* deals its damage to one location? Really? Or that arm convergence is a factor? Sorry, but on that count you're quite wrong. Weapons mounted on arms actually do have to line up for convergence, and are not accurate 100% of the time. This is most noticeable on slow-reacting heavy mechs like the Atlas and the Orion, but also noticeable on mediums such as the Hunchback. More than once have my shots been ruined by sluggish arm reaction. At times, my shots have even visibly "crossed" mid flight prior to hitting the target. I accept this as a plausable, realistic "bug" in the system. It makes sense that the system that computes weapon orentation could make such a mistake.

In either case, that point is moot. Weapons are already "imprecise" because of the player input aspect. This is NOT irrelevant. MWO uses free-aiming mechanics, and the player must "swivel" their gunsight to their target in real time, even though that target is going to be moving and shooting, their cockpit being rocked by gunfire all the while. Their weapons aren't guaranteed to clear terrain - depending on weapon origin, their shots can be blocked by low cliffs, walls, or other obstacles. If you line up your target, and your weapons are on the mark, you don't twitch, your opponent doesn't dodge...you *deserve* a hit. Anything to the contrary is pure hogwash. Weapons do NOT need to be less effective. If you can't handle accurate players, learn to play.

Edited by Master Maniac, 21 September 2013 - 06:47 PM.

[RandomLurker]

Bump for great justice discussion.

[RandomLurker]

Bump for relevance to the recent AC-meta discussions.

[Krinkov]

The weapon sway in 3rd person is due to how they figure where the 3rd person reticle should be. An invisible ray is projected from the cockpit of the mech. Wherever this ray hits a polygon is the location the reticle is drawn. They could easily add this by adding that same ray trace projected from the center of the internal cockpit model. As can be seen in your video, the entire cockpit model bounces around and would add sway to the reticle. The only downside I can think of would be difficulty in changing the amount of reticle sway. The bounce animation for the mech would need to be tweaked to reduce it.

[RandomLurker]

Krinkov, on 19 October 2013 - 07:50 PM, said:

The weapon sway in 3rd person is due to how they figure where the 3rd person reticle should be. An invisible ray is projected from the cockpit of the mech. Wherever this ray hits a polygon is the location the reticle is drawn. They could easily add this by adding that same ray trace projected from the center of the internal cockpit model. As can be seen in your video, the entire cockpit model bounces around and would add sway to the reticle. The only downside I can think of would be difficulty in changing the amount of reticle sway. The bounce animation for the mech would need to be tweaked to reduce it.

That does indeed sound like a good method. Thanks for the input.

[shellashock]

I have to admit, when I first saw this, I thought that this was going to be another rant about no convergence with the same tired material repeated once more. I was pleasantly surprised to see something new and something that actually seems like it has a fighting chance to get in the game. I am very impressed with the video and people before me have already come up with all the questions I was going to ask. I wish you the best in getting PGI to notice this and I will send them a letter asking if they are aware of this alternate convergence fix.

Good Luck and see you in game!

[Hobo Dan]

I really like this idea.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

This would be fine with me.

I hope the devs consider this.