14 replies to this topic

[Sen]

So, I have [yet again] moved to another machine. . . a SHINY NEW Razer Blade Pro 17" notebook from newegg! You can save the comments: premium price comes with premium service, and I've needed [and received it] so far. . . but let me give the background.

So I get shiny new notebook on 9/11/2013. Get all the updates installed, all my programs, etc, setup razer synapse [for switchbladeUI] and razer comms [which a friend and I use occasionally, but i leave on all the time]

Jump into MwO and start running matches with a few friends, but Keep getting BSOD every match or two. [Video_TDR_Failure]. Call Razer, they suggest a specific beta driver build that SHOULD fix the issue, but they've seen this before. They suggest if that doesn't fix it it must be a hardware issue and I should RMA.

Naturally it didn't fix the issue.

So I call Newegg to setup RMA. Excellent service, free return shipping, $25 gift card for my trouble, the whole 9. I restore the computer to factory default, pack it up, and go to bed.

Next day I decide before I drop it off that I should've tried to duplicate the failure with the restored drive, and so I pull it out, just update windows and sign into synapse, download MwO, and see if I can duplicate it.

For about an hour to an hour and a half, it's fine.

I then proceed to log into razer comms, get a BSOD memory error with my next match, and Video_TDR)_Failure every match after reboot. It's so uncanny that I call Razer back, but "it's just a coincidence, RMA it"

So I did.

heard back from newegg yesterday, and after a 12 hour burn in with "Pc Benchmark" the unit is declared not defective. I'm not even surprised at this point. Talk to them for 45 minutes trying to find out exactly how they tested it, what they used, verify the GPU was thoroughly tested, etc. They upgrade me to free next day shipping. I'll have it back Tuesday.

So for you tech gurus out there, here are the gritty facts.

CPU Max temps recorded: 84c on hottest core in a 25.5c [78f] room.
GPU Max temps recorded: 79c in the same room

The crash is a two step crash. MwO Freezes but I can alt tab. Video_TDR_Failure trips when Windows is unable to RECOVER the nvidia drivers, about 3-10 seconds later.

System spec:
Haswell 4700HQ @ 2.4, 8 gig ram, Nvidia GTX765m, 256 gig SSD.


I thought I'd throw this out here ahead of time to soundboard and see if I can get some fresh thoughts about this. I'm debating doing a clean CD install of Win8 as opposed to using the restore partition, but I'm not sure if there's a point to it or not. Thanks to switchbladeUI I now have access to monitoring tools, so I'll be able to track CPU and RAM usage to see if maybe there's a memory issue [apparently the synaptics drivers have have been known to have a memory leak].

Outside of that, I'm open to any thoughts and/or ideas.Temps are well within spec, and the peculiar two step failure process leads me to believe that it may well NOT be a hardware issue, but I could use all the additional thoughts I can get Thanks in advance guys!

Sen

Edited by Sen, 21 September 2013 - 06:49 AM.

[Gremlich Johns]

Cooling pad will help somewhat with the heat. (Zalman makes some good ones)

The razer comms seems to be an issue in all instances. Don't start it up and do everything else. Switch to TS3, regardless.

Do you need synapse running? don't start it up and see how that goes. In fact, try to play without any razer software running.

Does the BSoD happen with other games?

[Catamount]

This is not a hardware issue. Hardware issues invariably have a certain random aspect to them, because any software can trip the fault and cause a system malfunction. Something this consistent and highly specific is highly indicative of a software error, and since you were fun until using Razer Comms, that's most likely the issue, whether directly or because of a software conflict of some sort (sound drivers possibly; yes, they're typically so buggy, I have seen them crash video drivers before).

Why not just avoid using that particular software? Razer's service sounds less than stellar so far; they tried one thing then cried "hardware" to kick the problem over to someone else :/ Still if it only misbehaves with that software, it sounds like you already have your solution.

[Sen]

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[color=#959595]Why not just avoid using that particular software?[/color]

After the razer comms failure right before I RMA'd it I rebooted without allowing razer comms to load on start. At that point it continued to BSOD [well. . once. . at that point it was keep it another day to troubleshoot or RMA, and Razer kept pushing to RMA.] My gut has been telling me this isn't a hardware issue, but as long as I have tons of documentation. . . if i can't get it sorted out, I have leverage to push back on Razer to replace the unit. More than anything, it helps to have someone I know knows his stuff to back up my gut feeling.
As for running a different game. .. YEA. . I probably should have. . . but when you spend that kind of coin on a machine and get any issue on it, the first instinct is to Toss it back and see if you can get another. Having the manufacturer continue to recommend that same action doesn't help. I used MwO as my own personal brand of torture test for the thing. . figured if there was ANY game that could p1ss it off, MwO was it. In this case I wasn't disappointed

Oh! Almost forgot:

Switchblade UI depends on Synapse to function. If it's not running, The SB becomes completely non-functional: No track pad, no youtube, no numeric keypad. . essentially dead weight.

Edited by Sen, 21 September 2013 - 03:01 PM.

[Gremlich Johns]

Should have gone with a Sager Notebook instead, mate.

[Catamount]

I wonder if there's enough information in the crash dumps for the educated layman to diagnose the problem?

Maybe if you installed the debugging tools and posted the results, or just uploaded the files, we could see more of what's going on.

Edited by Catamount, 21 September 2013 - 04:29 PM.

[Sen]

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Should have gone with a Sager Notebook instead, mate.

I really REALLY needed something with the Blade's profile. There are times I have to do extended [2+ weeks] out of town travel for work, and it's required that I carry an extremely heavy and bulky work notebook with me at all times. Hauling 2 8+ lb notebooks through security and then through random airport terminals while waiting for boarding gets rough. Besides, newegg doesn't carry Sager [iirc], and I needed the 12 months no interest no payments

Quote

[color=#959595]Maybe if you installed the debugging tools and posted the results, or just uploaded the files, we could see more of what's going on. [/color]

Which debugging tools? That's right at the edges of any troubleshooting I've ever done. I know where/how to pull the crash dumps tho. I'd be very happy to pull those logs, both for analysis here and in the event I continue to have issues and have to RMA to Razer.


About the only thing I know, based on what I've read on the Video_TDR_Failure, is that it involves the windows built in driver recovery tool. The nvidia driver is crashing, and windows 8 attempts to recover the driver, fails, and BSOD. [BSOD cites nvlddmkm.sys at the bottom]

I'll let you know as soon as I get it back. Looks like it didn't make it out yesterday, so I should have it back on Tuesday.

[Catamount]

The Windows debugging tools are free to download, and specifically designed to open crash dumps and tell you why they occurred. Sometimes it's helpful, sometimes it's not. In order to make it work you need the proper symbols for you OS installed (Win 8 x64 I assume) so that it has some clue what the error means, but there are instructions on how to do that all over the net.

Then just install them, load the dump, !analyze -v

[Sen]

Got em' Cat. . and now we wait

So I found out today they've released a new unified WHQL driver. I downloaded it and installed it on my backup MSI GT70 [Ivy bridge w/ 675m] After about 5 minutes of furmark and a max temp of 91c [with max fan on, and the reason I don't use it for gaming] I watched the NVidia driver crash, attempt to recover, and BSOD with the exact same error as the razer blade. It's not a smoking gun, and now I'm going to have to install MwO on it and see if I can duplicate it per that application.

Sorry if there are any typ-os I missed, the forums seem to be incompatible with my keyboard today. Fortunately the keyboard is working everywhere else

Edit 2 12:37 PM

https://forums.gefor...comment=2894431

interesting read. . . looks like I'm not the first to have this issue.

Edited by Sen, 22 September 2013 - 09:37 AM.

[Catamount]

Hmm. I wonder if rolling back to a previous driver might help?

[Sen]

The more I read, the more I'm finding this is not as rare an issue as I had expected. APPRARENTLY this cropped up a few driver revisions back, and they're working on resolving it [from what I can make out from various forum posts] The only workaround I've really seen is to actually regedit TdrDelay to lengthen the timeout to give it a chance to recover. I'm about to see if it helps resolve the issue on the GT70.


Unfortunately, while I an reproduce the issue with furmark on the GT70, after an hour I can't seem to get MwO t crash it. I guess in this case it's a heat related issue.

Edited by Sen, 22 September 2013 - 02:10 PM.

[Catamount]

I was wondering if it might be heat-related. Do you know what temps you hit during MWO?

If your GPU is voltage-unlocked (which sadly most or all Nvidia chips are not now), you could most likely undervolt it by 10% or so, otherwise, I'd underclock it slightly. It'll run cooler and more stably.

[Sen]

on the GT70 I'm sure it is. I just wanted so bad for them both to have the exact same issue so I could convince myself it's not a hardware issue on the blade. If it's software related I can eventually isolate it, if not outright fix it.

max fan GPU on the GT70 hit 83-84c and had no issues. In furmark it was spiking 96c and rising.

I was hoping my blade would have shown back up today, but I guess it didn't ship on Friday. I should have it back tomorrow afternoon.

[Sen]

Just a quick update. I got the notebook back this afternoon. I'm in the process of getting it setup and everything installed [minus razer comms, which I uninstalled just to be on the safe side.

I've also completely muddied the playing field by updating to 8.1 preview. I'm hoping I can either shake things up really badly or that it just kinda vanishes in that absence of logic that some problems tend to be swallowed by--never to be seen again [knocking on wood] I'll keep you posted.

Update: 7:00pm CST

Cannot run windows 8.1 It went to a black screen with mouse pointer and hung for an hour. Managed to get it up and running, but the intel driver, Bluetooth driver, and audio driver had that wonderful yellow !. Could not update nvidia driver until I updated the intel driver, and attempting to do so kicked me back to black screen. I had to restore the machine to recover it.

So I finished making dinner, re updated windows, brought it up to hook up to my desktop station. Plugging in my external USB 3.0 drive caused a BSOD [I missed the technicals] and the machine refuses to boot with it plugged in. USB port next to my HDMI port seems flaky, I had everything [mouse, orbweaver, keyboard] plugged into a POWERED USB hub. I had to move it to the middle USB port to get it to recognize the devices. Trying to FN + F4 to change to external monitor only caused synapse to crash 3 or 4 times.

Downloading MwO now, but I'm not hopeful at this point.

Edited by Sen, 24 September 2013 - 04:00 PM.

[Badconduct]

If you are running on a laptop, I highly recommend just using the manufacture recommended drivers, even for the videocard. If 8.1 isn't supported on the manufacture site, don't use it yet. Just going to cause more problems.


84 seems hot to me, considering. And those temps are not always accurate, they are usually auto-adjusted. If I had to guess, the Hard Drive or the V-RAM is overheating. It's hard to record and it can cause all kinds of corruption if the data is not being read correctly. That's why everything is just full out failing and the problems seem to get worse the more you troubleshoot.

With a fresh install of Windows and you are getting BSOD, I'm going to point 100% at Hardware.


@Cat
The voltage on the Nvidia cards "should" auto adjust to the heat and performance ratios, they are no longer constant which is why they cannot be adjusted. Only the EVGA tuner can adjust it, from my understanding. It won't make a difference though, it should down clock itself by default if the chip overheats and it should reduce the speed if it's hitting 60FPS.

I believe it's the video ram though, only real way to test is to benchmark just the card for hours and see what happens.
http://www.ozone3d.net/benchmarks/fur/

In my humble opinion on Laptops, just buy a Desktop for playing games.
Is this day and age, you really need a PC dedicated to running games that is separate from your work station. With Steam OS being released, and AMD's new Mantel API, that division is going to grow more and more.