Enrgy Builds, Balancing All Wrong
#21
Posted 22 September 2013 - 11:55 AM
That said, some of my most effective mechs have been pure energy or energy/missile builds. No ammo to worry about means you can take pot shots at extreme range without any real worry, functionally good range makes them pretty useful, and weight means you can fit a few onto nearly any build.
The biggest problems are Pulse lasers just are rarely worth it (SPLs have the occasional use, MPLs can be functional in some builds, but LPLs just are not worth the extra damage when for 2 tons less you can do more damage beyond 300M with a standard large (and significantly more with an ER Large with the same heat).
#22
Posted 22 September 2013 - 12:01 PM
Khobai, on 22 September 2013 - 11:35 AM, said:
That's why PGI needs to add mech-specific quirks (i.e. the Awesome should be better at using large energy weapons than any other mech). Stalkers should be deadlier overall by boating many small weapons. But when it comes to boating large energy weapons no mech should outdo the Awesome.
Where does that leave the Atlas RS?
#23
Posted 22 September 2013 - 12:12 PM
Quote
The Atlas RS isnt supposed to be an energy boat. The stock version only has two energy weapons and carries a mixed loadout with energy/ballistic/missile weapons. If anything the Atlas should get a quirk that gives it a bonus when it uses mixed loadouts.
The Awesome on the other hand is supposed to boat PPCs. Yet the stupid ghost heat penalties prevent the Awesome from fulfilling its canon role. The Awesome should get a quirk that gives it a bonus when boating PPCs (and at the very least it should ignore the ghost heat penalties on upto 3 ppcs).
And actually I think all mechs should get quirks that give you small bonuses for playing the mech in its canon role. Like the Trebuchet and Catapult should get quirks that makes them better at using LRMs. Kindve silly that Stalker is the best LRM boat, and not the mechs that actually boat LRMs in canon. Adding quirks like that would help give every mech its own place in the game.
Edited by Khobai, 22 September 2013 - 12:17 PM.
#24
Posted 22 September 2013 - 12:21 PM
#25
Posted 22 September 2013 - 12:28 PM
Bront, on 22 September 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:
I have to disagree there. Beam durration is the key. You put much more of the potential dmg to the desired spot. Of course 7 tons is alot for the LPLas, but the shorter beam durration has helped quite a bit. Imo no beam durration should be longer than like 0.6 sec, regardless if pulse or constant.
Edited by Shakma, 22 September 2013 - 12:30 PM.
#26
Posted 22 September 2013 - 12:33 PM
Bront, on 22 September 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:
Well, as I wrote initially, I'm verry sucessfull with my Raven RVN-3L, packing energy weapons only. But here I have speed and manuveribility. I can do a couple of shots dissapear. With an assult class mech, this is usually not an valid option. According to ppl in this thread I should fight on the front line with my raven, and holding back hiding behind rocks and other mechs, fireing a few shots now and then with my Awesome.
#27
Posted 22 September 2013 - 12:53 PM
I tell you though, if Ghost Heat is the working Heat Nerf then dump all the old Heat nerfs that did not work, especially DHS 1.4. You have the weird Ghost Heat now so make it work and give me back my Awesome.
#28
Posted 22 September 2013 - 01:03 PM
Shakma, on 22 September 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:
I have to disagree there. Beam durration is the key. You put much more of the potential dmg to the desired spot. Of course 7 tons is alot for the LPLas, but the shorter beam durration has helped quite a bit. Imo no beam durration should be longer than like 0.6 sec, regardless if pulse or constant.
Oh, I wanted to love LPLs for the beam durration, but the damage isn't that much better, and the range is so much shorter I'm better off with an LL and 2 MLs if I can mount them. Better damage at all ranges even if I only get the LPL's beam durration on target. The bigg issue is the ranges 301-450M, where LL outshines the LPL easily. Outside of the AC20, the LPL is the largest weapon with the shortest range.
I've said in many threads, I think LL and ML durrations should be .75, SL .6, LPL and ML .5, and SPL .4. It would make all beam weapons more useful in general, and pulse lasers would still be more effective DPS wise (at being 33% shorter beam durration).
#29
Posted 22 September 2013 - 01:09 PM
Serpentbane, on 22 September 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:
That's a reflection of the heat system. DHS work as designed in BT for the first 10 engine heatsinks (double dissipation), and so smaller energy builds that only use those stock 10 or close to it work fine. This is why balistics are so nice, as they don't generate the heat to worry those first 10 DHS. After that, heat dissipation goes down hill, and thus, larger mechs or every weapon dependent mechs have a harder time dealing with heat. So light mechs don't really notice the energy weapon issue much, while assault pilots are kicked in the groin for taking an energy build in mechs that normally should be quite viable in lore.
#31
Posted 22 September 2013 - 03:52 PM
aniviron, on 22 September 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:
When you speak of Awesomes, aniviron will show up.
All we need now to start the Awesome apocalypse... give the 8R back a module slot.
Edited by Deathlike, 22 September 2013 - 03:52 PM.
#32
Posted 22 September 2013 - 04:03 PM
Deathlike, on 22 September 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:
When you speak of Awesomes, aniviron will show up.
All we need now to start the Awesome apocalypse... give the 8R back a module slot.
It's guaranteed to summon me, without fail. I don't even have power at my apartment right now, leeching off of a friend until it comes back on. That's how effective this summoning call is.
#35
Posted 23 September 2013 - 05:42 AM
Amsro, on 22 September 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:
1.3-1.6 is the sweet range for energy builds. If your stalker is too hot, slow it down give it more heat sinks.
As well.... PGI REMOVE GHOST HEAT, not that it ever functioned but its completely useless now with new ER/PPC heat values.
Energy builds are by definition heat monsters as they have a MST(Metric S*** Ton) of high heat weapons.
#36
Posted 23 September 2013 - 08:17 AM
Ideally you'd want to see at least a couple heat-efficient energy weapons that could be used as backups when your mech starts running hot. But for some bizarre reason MWO's medium laser is actually less heat efficient than the large laser - so there's no reason to use mediums as backups except for burst damage when you're still running cool. The opposite ought to be the case - players should have a good reason to switch to their mediums at close ranges.
Edited by Shlkt, 23 September 2013 - 08:17 AM.
#37
Posted 23 September 2013 - 08:57 AM
Shlkt, on 23 September 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:
Ideally you'd want to see at least a couple heat-efficient energy weapons that could be used as backups when your mech starts running hot. But for some bizarre reason MWO's medium laser is actually less heat efficient than the large laser - so there's no reason to use mediums as backups except for burst damage when you're still running cool. The opposite ought to be the case - players should have a good reason to switch to their mediums at close ranges.
While I completely agree, I will tell you why they didn't- and probably shouldn't- make the mlas more heat efficient than the llas (and only a few percent more efficient than the lplas even). The thing is, a large laser weighs five tons, and does 9 damage. For that kind of tonnage, you can get 25 damage worth of medium laser. While the llas' range more than makes up for its additional weight cost of heavier, slower mechs, when you're in a JR7-F you can move quickly enough that while the loss of range is annoying, it's not as huge a deal as it might be. So essentially, the tradeoff that the mlas gets in this game is ridiculously high firepower for its tonnage, at the cost of range, heat, and beam duration. I do think it needs a small boost to its efficacy, as you don't see terribly many mlas on the field, they're mostly supplemental weapons. The thing is though, they were pretty OP in tabletop- one weapon as the primary workhorse of the inner sphere. Their range problem was compounded by the lack of an MWO-style system where you get more range and damage falloff, but they had excellent damage/ton, and very good heat/damage as well. This sort of combination leads to mechs like the HBK-4P and Nova prime config, where you don't even bother with other guns, because the mlas is just good enough that you can get by without others.
#38
Posted 23 September 2013 - 01:39 PM
#39
Posted 23 September 2013 - 01:45 PM
#40
Posted 23 September 2013 - 02:47 PM
Dirkdaring, on 22 September 2013 - 04:44 AM, said:
That's because their CT is slightly smaller than the state of Texas, not because of what weapons they can carry.
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