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How To Hit Fast/lagging Light 'mechs

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#21 Pht

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 04:30 PM

View PostGreyboots, on 01 October 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

As a light pilot the only thing I'll say is do NOT walk straight backwards. It's easy enough to stay behind you by walking backwards too.


The point is not that the pilot in the slower 'mech is trying to keep you from getting behind them. The point is that they are trying to force you, the light 'mech, to spend more time under their field of fire.

Thus they should walk "straight backwards" in relation to the direction you are going. They should be attempting to slow your velocity relative to them as much as possible while keeping you "stable" in their sights.


Of course, you, as a light mech, can and should attempt to complicate this, but at some point, if you are approaching their front attempting to get to their back, you have to ... go behind them.

Also, going "backwards" versus a target that's persistantly circling you will still force them to spend more time "under their guns" than if they did something else.

... and really, they can't stop you from shooting them either. When you're fighting a light 'mech, expect to get a few dozen cuts on you, unless you manage a really good stop-shot on their inital approach.

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And I'm faster than you so I can zigzag with your torso twists and just bide my time for the right moment to pull the trigger and torso you out.


Absolutely true.

Which is exactly why they shouldn't even bother to attempt to do so.

They instead should do what's necessary to force you to spend more time in their field of fire, in as "stable" a movement vector in relation to their reticule as possible.

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The BEST defence against lights is simply to never be alone. I'm small and squishy. I'm hard to hit but when I get hit it hurts. With 3 guys all looking in my direction and throwing damage I usually won't hang around too awful long. That's just tempting fate because everyone gets lucky occasionally.


Amen.

As long as the other two guys aren't shooting you while attempting to hit the light 'mech.... the cure for that is, oddly, PATIENCE ... gobs of it ... and DO. NOT. CHASE. with the reticule!

Edited by Pht, 01 October 2013 - 04:32 PM.


#22 Kjudoon

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 11:51 PM

but first, drop your graphics detail to low to help end the bloody lag.

Edited by Kjudoon, 01 October 2013 - 11:51 PM.


#23 Magnakanus

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 01:09 AM

I have also seen a few people deal with lights and lag by "fanning" laser fire. It takes 1 second for standard lasers to put out their full damage and if you are not able to get a good bead on a light or your hits are not registering correctly you can "fan" your lasers a bit, getting in at least a bit of damage. With enough lasers and hits you can work a light over with this tactic as well.

This of course does not replace accurate hits for full damage, but is a good alternative until your aim/technique improves enough to get them.

Personally I find it easiest to hit a light (especially spiders) while they are jumping. The vector is stable enough for most anybody to accurately predict their movement for a hit.

#24 Kjudoon

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 01:23 AM

View PostMagnakanus, on 02 October 2013 - 01:09 AM, said:

I have also seen a few people deal with lights and lag by "fanning" laser fire. It takes 1 second for standard lasers to put out their full damage and if you are not able to get a good bead on a light or your hits are not registering correctly you can "fan" your lasers a bit, getting in at least a bit of damage. With enough lasers and hits you can work a light over with this tactic as well.

This of course does not replace accurate hits for full damage, but is a good alternative until your aim/technique improves enough to get them.

Personally I find it easiest to hit a light (especially spiders) while they are jumping. The vector is stable enough for most anybody to accurately predict their movement for a hit.


Boy do I suck then. Thanks for the tip though. :D

Edited by Kjudoon, 02 October 2013 - 01:24 AM.


#25 Magnakanus

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 02:07 AM

Well for the last 2 weeks I have been getting rolled constantly, usually 12 to 4 or less, so I dont think it has anything to do with sucking. There is a known issue with the hit boxes of spiders vs ballistics and missiles which is why I try to always carry some form of laser even on my JM6-DD.

I think in addition to the techniques above known issues should be listed as well so that people dont try them out and say they are {Scrap} because the hits dont register due to those issues.

The tips are great by the way. :D

#26 The Familt Ghost

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 05:55 AM

Excellent Post. Some of the suggestionsw come straight from military target training (trap shoot, not chase).

Saying: "TLDR We all know how to lead targets LOL" is the equivalent of answering an algebraic formula without doing the work. The answer will be wrong. One must understand the components of their actions.

Cudos to writing this up. Its good.

I've never understood the "hit box, lag, hacker" arguments. Using subjective assertions to describe one's perception of a quantitative paradigm is less than convincing, and not nearly as productive as honest definition of the challenge and logically overcoming it, which the OP has done.

Edited by The Familt Ghost, 02 October 2013 - 05:59 AM.


#27 The Familt Ghost

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 06:00 AM

View PostKjudoon, on 01 October 2013 - 11:51 PM, said:

but first, drop your graphics detail to low to help end the bloody lag.

If you need to adjust your graphics, then it is not lag. It is framerate, and that is your computer.

#28 TheArcher

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 06:15 AM

View PostWascot, on 22 September 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

...so your wall of text can basically be summed up to "lead your targets."


No, the aiming part of the post is a description of two different ways to lead your targets. 1) Play catchup with your cross hairs and fire when you think you are far enough ahead, or 2) place your crosshairs significantly ahead on the target's path and wait for the target to walk into the line of fire.

Personally, I usually use 1) for AC2 and 2) for anything else.

#29 Kjudoon

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 09:24 AM

View PostThe Familt Ghost, on 02 October 2013 - 06:00 AM, said:

If you need to adjust your graphics, then it is not lag. It is framerate, and that is your computer.


Thanks for the tip! I knew something wasn't right cause the smoothness still isn't like I was seeing. Then the question is how to adjust frame rate.

Edited by Kjudoon, 02 October 2013 - 09:25 AM.


#30 mailin

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 07:54 AM

View PostKjudoon, on 02 October 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:

Then the question is how to adjust frame rate.

Frame rates adjust themselves depending on how high or low screen resolution and graphics settings are. (Found under options at start screen, but can also be accessed in-game by pressing ESC and going to options or menu, NOT quit match or exit game. After adjusting settings in-game, it is very easy to hop back in the game and see the effects. To check your frame rate, press F9.

Edited by mailin, 03 October 2013 - 07:55 AM.


#31 Kjudoon

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 08:51 AM

View Postmailin, on 03 October 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

Frame rates adjust themselves depending on how high or low screen resolution and graphics settings are. (Found under options at start screen, but can also be accessed in-game by pressing ESC and going to options or menu, NOT quit match or exit game. After adjusting settings in-game, it is very easy to hop back in the game and see the effects. To check your frame rate, press F9.


Went ahead and did that. I get FPS as low as 4-6 on a regular basis unfortunately when spinning and moving with another mech. Not good.

#32 mailin

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 08:55 AM

View PostKjudoon, on 03 October 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:


Went ahead and did that. I get FPS as low as 4-6 on a regular basis unfortunately when spinning and moving with another mech. Not good.


Nope, not good at all. Make sure all of your settings are as low as possible and maybe lower your resolution as well and see what that gets you. Good luck.

#33 The Familt Ghost

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 11:24 AM

What are your computer specs? This might be too much game for your rig.

#34 Kjudoon

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 12:22 PM

View PostThe Familt Ghost, on 03 October 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

What are your computer specs? This might be too much game for your rig.


3.2 Ghz duo core 6gb ram. No clue on the graphics card but it wasn't a bottom of the barrel card. I'm going to definitely try to reduce the graphics and see what happens. Without the explosions and spinning, I do pretty fine (20-40fps).

#35 McKillynu

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 07:32 PM

View PostPht, on 01 October 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:


Uh ... no. A fast manuverable light with a halfway decent pilot can pull the circle so tight that they're literally almost "stepping on the heels" of your 'Mech.



Which is why you need to maneuver so you can create an angle whereby he is moving across your reticule at the slowest possible speed. If you are using lasers then tracking becomes very important once he moves across your sights.

I just got out of a game where a spider was chasing my cat for about a minute or more with my back armour completely opened up. Try as he could he could not get a shot off. I was in a pure LRM boat so it took a while for my laser-only team mates to finish him off. You need to compensate for the speed and tightness of the turn and adjust your timing accordingly bu that shoud go without saying.

I should also point out that, I don't "track" lights with my reticule. I turn my body and torso in such a way that my shot timing window is very large and allows me the luxury of deciding what body part I'm going for.

Your OP is good information, I'm just throwing in details of my mechanics which are battle tested.

#36 Wascot

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 08:29 PM

View PostNick Makiaveli, on 29 September 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

So basically your posts can be summed as you guys like to think you are "leet" players who only lose when the rest of your team ***** up, and you only win when the rest of your team doesn't screw up your awesomeness.

Here's a though, either read the post, or don't comment. If you don't want to actually try and help newbies, why are you even in this section of the forums? There is a reason there isn't a e-peen section......


Here's a thought, maybe you should read my post before you go on some rant at how I'm some sort of "leet" player crapping all over this guide. Pretty much everything the OP wrote can be summed up to leading your target. Remove all the fluff and it all boils down to placing your crosshairs in front of your target and letting it run right into it. MWO has less to do with twitch aiming skills and more to do with mental awareness, positioning, and luck of the draw. But hey if you think I'm stroking my e-peen then care to top me off?

View PostGreyboots, on 01 October 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

While spectating one day, there was a guy waving his crosshairs all over the screen and hit almost nothing unless it was huge. Then he complained about hit boxes and targeting and so forth when clearly neither of these were the issue. He wasn't a raving ***** either. He was clear, concise, polite and genuinely concerned that a game he was liking was broken beyond belief.

He was relieved to receive this sort of information. To get hints to build up his skill level in the game.

These sorts of threads serve a genuine purpose and should be left unchallenged in this manner. If you have a different tactic? Add it to the pile for them to try out to be sure.


How did I challenge the OP? I summed up the bulk of the written tactics into a simple to digest concept, added the simple fact that hits don't register whether it be magic or HSR, and simply stated that "L2P" won't cut it. Whether you take the "L2P" comment as derogatory or not, some people simply need to shut up and learn to play. Maybe it's the "L2P" part that have some people annoyed at me, but apparently I'm some elitist a-hole so can't please everyone I suppose.

Lead your (moving) targets if you want to hit them. Hitscan (lasers) need very minimal lead, and cannons (ballistics) have variable lead depending on projectile speed. If you have to read a guide on leading targets then don't even bother with missiles (SRM). Not only will you probably not hit lateral moving lights, but you'll just be frustrated when hits fail to register.

That better? Maybe being too concise is a bad thing?

#37 Pht

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 04:15 PM

View PostWascot, on 03 October 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

Pretty much everything the OP wrote can be summed up to leading your target. Remove all the fluff and it all boils down to placing your crosshairs in front of your target and letting it run right into it.


It only "boils down" for people who already know it.

If you tell someone who has no idea what you're talking about "lead the target" and nothing else they chould legitimately think you meant "instead of chasing behind the target with the reticule, I should be constantly adjusting my reticule to be just in front of my target" ... which is just as bad if not worse than chasing behind a target with the reticule.

Thus the explanation at some length.

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Lead your (moving) targets if you want to hit them. Hitscan (lasers) need very minimal lead,...


The lasers aren't hitscan anymore - not to do their full damage. They deal their damage out in tiny slices of time, so that the damage can spread across mutliple panels.

"Hitscan" in previous MW video games meant that lasers did all their damage in a single instant to only one armor panel.

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That better? Maybe being too concise is a bad thing?


For people new to a concept, yes... concise can be very confusing. Even more confusing than very long and somewhat unclear explanation.

When at first something is learned, it usually takes many (very precise and clear) words to explain it so that people can make all the necessary connections.

#38 Pht

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 04:19 PM

View PostMcKillynu, on 03 October 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:

Which is why you need to maneuver so you can create an angle whereby he is moving across your reticule at the slowest possible speed. If you are using lasers then tracking becomes very important once he moves across your sights.


It would seem than that we are going for the same end concept.

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Your OP is good information, I'm just throwing in details of my mechanics which are battle tested.


I was more aiming my OP at the newest players coming into the MW Video game series... the same ones who have trouble in the beginning with keeping up with which way the legs are pointing in relation to the direction the legs are pointing.... that's why this thread was originally in the new players forum. There were just too many things pinned in there to justify adding another pinned thread in there, so this was moved here and pinned.

#39 Plaguetongue

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 03:28 AM

useful exept the fact that the light mechs always are behind me, the circle me faster than i can turn my mech, yes i play assault. the only way to survive a lightmech is to shoot his legs before he manage to get to close.

#40 Pht

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 05:06 PM

View PostPlaguetongue, on 09 October 2013 - 03:28 AM, said:

useful exept the fact that the light mechs always are behind me, the circle me faster than i can turn my mech, ...


Which is exactly why I didn't tell you to turn around and said to flip into full reverse - and you do this as soon as you see a light 'mech attempting to get behind you.

The only time I can think of to not be exploiting reverse is against a light that's behind you and staying back there, instead of orbiting around your 'mech... or in very tight terrain, which is when you put your back to a wall.

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yes i play assault. the only way to survive a lightmech is to shoot his legs before he manage to get to close.


Exactly the point the OP is attempting to get you to.

Force the booger to spend the most time in front of your guns as is possible so you can do just exactly something like that.





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