128 replies to this topic

[Thimble]

xMEPHISTOx, on 16 November 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

And that is the best attitude to have and the most productive way of looking at it. So many just bytch and whine about how downtrodden they are and never learn from the trials and tribulations of pugging. If more people thought such a way the playerbase as a whole would be far better at the game and the QQ would be reduced immensely.

The issue is that (many, many) other games have much better matchmaking. Why should new players come here?

[3endless8oogie]

To do some kind of summary of this thread so far:

It would be the best solution to match premades with premades and pugs with pugs + having the possibility of veteran-super-pro pugs to match with or against premades...

Doesn´t sound so difficult.

In the case of ingame voip : I realy don´t want some dude blablahing into my ear, I´ve had enough of this in arma... people who just mumble and mumble, people who broadcast sick-**** about jews, people who just broadcast anoying music, sounds or whatever...

I realy just want to listen to the funky voice of betty davis while i am playing...

Edited by 3endless8oogie, 16 November 2013 - 05:01 PM.

[xMEPHISTOx]

M4NTiC0R3X, on 16 November 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

I request a solo only queue, seeing as this issue is only getting worse as time goes by.

I do not understand why PGI is so against a solo only queue.

Because it splits the player base.
Do you think you would learn to be a better player in solo only queue>?
And honestly it is not so bad...I run solo pug on occasion and while bad its not as bad as it used to be by any measure. It certainly has not gotten worse with time as you imply, rather it has improved vastly since the closed beta pug stomping days. I solo pug solely on my alt account (ftp) and have a win percentage of 59% so it could not be all that bad.

Thimble, on 16 November 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

The issue is that (many, many) other games have much better matchmaking. Why should new players come here?

Any examples of the 'many, many' other games you speak of...?

Edited by xMEPHISTOx, 16 November 2013 - 05:14 PM.

[Junkman7mgte]

Mudhutwarrior, on 16 November 2013 - 08:27 AM, said:

As far a bullying is concerned just look at Roadbeers posting history. If PGI had a mind to they would soon see his game is only to shut down discussion and make threads where the reader cannot follow. His big thrill of the day is getting posts moved to k-town. No real contribution just the ultimate troll.

When I think of all the really top notch people who have left or been banned just seeing a Roadbeer post sums up how PGI really feels about its customers.

LMAO, I have yet, to see a positive post from - YOU -. I read the forum quite a bit, post a little here and there. While Roadbeer may push a few buttons, you just whine and complain more than anything. Many times, I've wished PGI would moderate you off of here for a few days ... just sayin'

[R Razor]

What's truly amazing is that someone can keep a straight face while saying that using TS on a bad internet connection will kill FPS or anything else...........I play from Afghanistan using the worlds worst ISP (Sniper Hill) and run TS with MWO and am able to play. (at least until Sniper Hill drops which happens frequently)

It's the same excuses from the same people..........they can't make friends on here so they want to ensure that nobody that can is able to play with them.

QQ somewhere else, PGI is not going to split the player base just to unknot your panties. When the lobby comes out (assuming it does) then you can play with whomever you choose, but if you can't find 12 don't be surprised if you're on the receiving end of a 4 man yet again.

[Steel Claws]

Mudhutwarrior, on 24 September 2013 - 02:49 AM, said:

I dont buy into "I pug and have no problems" especially when I see the names out there only dropping with teams. If anyone can be honest with themselves and others they will tell you the game is broken as it stands. Without in game chat any 4 8 or 12 man team has a complete advantage with voice over chat window.

You will never see a 12 man team on the same coms vs a group of pugs. It is so close to impossible to synch drop 3 four man groups. 12 mans only fight against other 12 mans.

The only thing broken I've seen in this are the players. You tell them "Stay together" or "Go to Point A," and the next thing you kow they are off in assaults chasing Jenners or Spiders. Then they wonder why they get rolled. I solo drop about 90% of the time and quite often run smaller mechs. What I find incrediably sad is that most of the time my little Raven has almost double the damage points that all the assault mech pilots on my team had. So tired of watching people scatter and do incredibly stupid things and get killed out in 4 or five min flat and then wonder what went wrong. Even a good four man can't survive 8 bad pugs. I see it happen all the time to guys who are some of the best players out there.

This game is not that difficult to figure out. You stay together, avoid exposing your mech to multiple mechs on the other team, form firing lines to take down the other team quickly, and you don't let the other team flank behind you. If someone is waiting for you to pop around a corner so they can shoot you - don't stick you head around that corner - it's that simple. These are not difficult things to do and you do not need coms to accomplish this. I see this kind of thing done by pug teams all the time. Some however run off and get killed or seperate and basically do nothing while the rest get rolled (dominoes anyone). Love the guys who go run into the cave and basically set there and do nothing because they are too scared to stick their head out and not smart enough to back out the other end and then get ganged once everyone else is dead - our heros. Then there are the ones that want to base rush - Once they are picked off everyone else is outgunned. Playing smart will get you wins provided the rest of your team is playing smart - it's all up to the pug lottery.

Edited by Steel Claws, 16 November 2013 - 07:08 PM.

[sokitumi]

Mudhutwarrior, on 16 November 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

Why bring up the development argument? Every request here is a development issue. If you want to argue development time please add in the cost factor. Is fewer players more of a detriment to development than adding features that attract new players? Frankly the way PGI handles development asking for anything holds the game back.

Fact is we are bleeding players and anything we can do to retain and bring in fresh blood should be a priority. If the base grows so does purchases and free up funds to hire more or better people. All development would move faster.

Right now new players are getting no slack. Tutorials are a joke and we cant help anyone with a keyboard in a fight. Its the crux of the whole game to bring in and retain. We are doing both poorly. What you want as a experienced player is important but not near as important as growing the base. I have had several offers to join teams and a couple are crack ones. That will help me but will not help anyone else. That's the point here. Its not about me or you but instead the game as a whole and wanting it to be successful.

While you're right that the new player exp is a horrendous in mwo...you couldn't be more wrong about direction. You don't develop competitive pvp games around new players. You do it for the high end and the new players will want to get better, and pay and play a lot to do so. Generally, people prefer stick shift ferrari's over automatic volvos. Word of mouth > marketting. Gamers in 2013 know a good game when they see it. This is why the player base is dissolving.

Steps like adding 3pv to make new players more comfortable is ridiculous. Even if was implemented better than it is, it's still a huge waste of time and resources that should have gone to so many other things. Perhaps an actual tutorial...

TLDR: build it for the best, the noobs will want to play more to get better. Regardless, pgi struggles on both fronts, screwing over vets with wasted resources, bad decisions and false promises: while still failing to improve the new player exp. in an effective way.

[Mystere]

Mudhutwarrior, on 24 September 2013 - 02:49 AM, said:

I dont buy into "I pug and have no problems" especially when I see the names out there only dropping with teams.

Well I do pug exclusively and have no problems. ( )

As for a solo-only queue, I personally would probably not play much on one, if at all.There is just too much pleasure in trashing grouped opponents -- or people claiming to be grouped -- for me to give that up. Call me insane, but, "trial by fire" is my thing.

YMMV of course.

[Sandpit]

I refuse to use Teamspeak so I'm somehow a victim!

I pug and do just fine

[Thimble]

xMEPHISTOx, on 16 November 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

Because it splits the player base.
Do you think you would learn to be a better player in solo only queue>?
And honestly it is not so bad...I run solo pug on occasion and while bad its not as bad as it used to be by any measure. It certainly has not gotten worse with time as you imply, rather it has improved vastly since the closed beta pug stomping days. I solo pug solely on my alt account (ftp) and have a win percentage of 59% so it could not be all that bad.



Any examples of the 'many, many' other games you speak of...?

You didn't answer my question... but LoL (far better) and DoTA. And quite a few older games.

I haven't played an online game in the last few years that I noticed bad MM until I got here.

[Mystere]

Thimble, on 16 November 2013 - 09:55 PM, said:

You didn't answer my question... but LoL (far better) and DoTA. And quite a few older games.

I haven't played an online game in the last few years that I noticed bad MM until I got here.

Have you played Age of Conan? Now that is really brutal for new players, whether questing or playing minis.

[Thimble]

Mystere, on 16 November 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:

Have you played Age of Conan? Now that is really brutal for new players, whether questing or playing minis.

I have not, last MMO I spent much time with was Warhammer. It had "ok" matchmaking, and was fun until EA destroyed it.

[Randalf Yorgen]

Troutmonkey, on 16 November 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

Are all you TeamSpeak fans ******* thick or something? How the hell am I supposed to convince 11 randoms to join my teamspeak server in less than 20 seconds? Think about it, TeamSpeak doesn't solve the problem we're looking at here. Sure it's great for you 4 mans to use, because you've already organised to group up. Stop trying to flag it as the ultimate solution, becuase the opposite of this is when I join a sever and 11 randoms ask me to join their useless TeamSpeak server that they've hosted. We need a centralised solution, from the source. One that requires no configuration and no extra programs / alt -tabbing.

And to anyone else saying that they don't want to hear people abusing the system, USE THE DAMNED MUTE BUTTON. It's like you lot have never played another game before. These features have existed over a decade and has been matured to a point where any problem you lot can think of has already been solved.

VOIP will not ruin the game, it will greatly enchance the game and make it much more freindly to new people and veteran PUGgers alike. Sure a few people will abuse the system, so just mute the ******.

http://mwomercs.com/...-sorely-needed/

Not going to troll you here, to late at night for that. Can I ask, did you read the part about the Faction servers or the regional servers? IF the Soloists were to actually use them then it's an easy thing to set up. Everyone is in the same TS channel, no one in a group. Everyone in that channel is set on the same mode. Someone counts down and everyone drops together. On the ready screen you see you have a few other soloists in the same drop so you give a channel number for them to switch too. Alt-tab out, change Channel, come back into the game everyone who is there is now talking. Will you have everyone, no but there is a chance you will have a few you can try to work with. We know VOIP won't ruin the game, in fact I'll prove it to you, meet me there in 5 min and we'll chat..... oh wait..... IT"S NOT IN GAME and may never be.

As I said in my other posts should it be in this game HELLLL YES, but right now it's not. When they tried C-3 they had a truckload of problems with that service that cause some people to have an insanely poor game experience, one that only got better when they turned off C-3 all together. Is a third party solution the best one for the Soloist player, not by a long shot but what else do you have? As I said above, if the soloists in one region were to all use the same TS server and all drop in the same que and then all the ones who were in the same group were to change to a drop channel once they were in the game, TS3 Would work, and it would work well.

Sorry if you having to Alt - Tab is an immersion breaker for you.

[Troutmonkey]

Randalf Yorgen, on 16 November 2013 - 11:10 PM, said:

Not going to troll you here, to late at night for that. Can I ask, did you read the part about the Faction servers or the regional servers? IF the Soloists were to actually use them then it's an easy thing to set up. Everyone is in the same TS channel, no one in a group. Everyone in that channel is set on the same mode. Someone counts down and everyone drops together. On the ready screen you see you have a few other soloists in the same drop so you give a channel number for them to switch too. Alt-tab out, change Channel, come back into the game everyone who is there is now talking. Will you have everyone, no but there is a chance you will have a few you can try to work with. We know VOIP won't ruin the game, in fact I'll prove it to you, meet me there in 5 min and we'll chat..... oh wait..... IT"S NOT IN GAME and may never be.

Sorry if you having to Alt - Tab is an immersion breaker for you.

A lot of effort for a "maybe like 2 players will join you". It's simply not worth it, especially as you have to mess around with it every game.

Randalf Yorgen, on 16 November 2013 - 11:10 PM, said:

As I said in my other posts should it be in this game HELLLL YES, but right now it's not. When they tried C-3 they had a truckload of problems with that service that cause some people to have an insanely poor game experience, one that only got better when they turned off C-3 all together. Is a third party solution the best one for the Soloist player, not by a long shot but what else do you have? As I said above, if the soloists in one region were to all use the same TS server and all drop in the same que and then all the ones who were in the same group were to change to a drop channel once they were in the game, TS3 Would work, and it would work well.

The biggest problems with C3 are the same problems as with Team Speak.
It requires installing, and then signing up to a 3rd party service. It also required you to run the program manually before running MWO (or so I'm told). Because of the extra steps required to use C3, and the fact that it wasn't advertised particularily well (I never even knew it existed for my first few months), almost no one used it, and because no one used it, no one used it. Recursive failure right there. In the end I would never have called C3 "in game VOIP" so much as "PGI strongly suggest you use this VOIP, but we're not going to make it easy - VOIP"

Edited by Troutmonkey, 16 November 2013 - 11:20 PM.

[mikehunter82]

Naginata, on 15 November 2013 - 04:38 AM, said:

I just find it way to often in PUG games that you roll with 12 Mechs .. yeaah cool ...
all of a sudden a blip appears next to your base aaaaand "swooosh" 8 Mechs turn to hunt a Spider ...

For sure the last 4 remainig Mechs find the enemys main force 10 seconds later ..

I pretty don´t care for K/D or W/L ratios (mine are pretty bad),
but I do care about "silly Play" ...
I hate it if Asault or Heavy Mechs run away from the Group and are trying to hunt lights.
I hate if lights are assaulting on conquest and do not recon or cap bases ...

Every Mech has it´s role and it is not very hard to stick to that role.
Even on PUG games this should be a task that is not to hard for everyone.

Just my 2 Cents,

Naginata

I totally agree. But keep in mind U NEED 5+ mechs to effectivelly (under 1 minute) kill a spider. Not bcs of ppl cannot aim, but bcs of how spiders tank dmg. To be honest there are 3 major issues that keep me from buying MC: 1) It is nearly impossible to get a decent 1st win of the day. It is either total wipeout of my team, no matter i do over 300dmg, sometimes killing 1 or 2, or it is me taking a wrong turn and die fast, or spend half the match trying to kill lights harrasing me, doing {Scrap} dmg, and my team wins. 2) Memory allocation error and crashing / freezeing in general. Also on maps played at night, or in the fog my fps drops when enemy AC hits me. 3) OP light mechs. (spider - tanking dmg like mad, Jenner - too much firepower) Other lights i find kind of ok, but in my opinion lights should be easier to kill, and shouldnt be able to carry stuff like 2xERLL, 5xML, or PPC. That way ppl would start using lights as scouts, not a MAJOR THREAT, that gets everyones attention and firepower, and is able to survive that... Id love to c the day, when Light mech pilots who play too ballsy running between multiple enemy mechs just die after few shots.

[Mudhutwarrior]

I am so happy for you "I pug and I do Fine " People.

I pug and I do fine also...

But its not about me, not about you. Its about retaining new players. A serious issue directly related to the long life of the game.

Man, Density to the max with the self centered.

[Shredhead]

Mudhutwarrior, on 17 November 2013 - 02:34 AM, said:

I am so happy for you "I pug and I do Fine " People.

I pug and I do fine also...

But its not about me, not about you. Its about retaining new players. A serious issue directly related to the long life of the game.

Man, Density to the max with the self centered.

That's my stats from my "Awful Mechs Solo Drop" twink account I opened yesterday. As of yet, I still have to experience those oh so mean baby eating, seal clubbing, soul robbing, pubbie stomping premades ruining my "newbie" experience. It just doesn't happen. And I played in NA prime time with this account. So basically all you're saying is pure and utter BS! All I see in these games are new and old inexperienced players sporting awful tactics, which they will improve over time and climb the ladder or not and stay in Elo underhive. That's all there is to it.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Shredhead, on 17 November 2013 - 03:30 AM, said:

That's my stats from my "Awful Mechs Solo Drop" twink account I opened yesterday. As of yet, I still have to experience those oh so mean baby eating, seal clubbing, soul robbing, pubbie stomping premades ruining my "newbie" experience. It just doesn't happen. And I played in NA prime time with this account. So basically all you're saying is pure and utter BS! All I see in these games are new and old inexperienced players sporting awful tactics, which they will improve over time and climb the ladder or not and stay in Elo underhive. That's all there is to it.

Thanks for quoting my post about those self centered folks with a self centered post of your own, Could not have planned that any better.

[Lykaon]

Troutmonkey, on 15 November 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

The time it takes to partner up would cancel out my free time. Playing sparodically for 1 or 2 hours makes it hard to just find people. And I don't really want to party up, I just want to be able to coomunicate efficiantly with my team, whoever they may be.

I'm not sure what you think it takes to join a VOIP group. But let me tell you how it works when I do it.

Launch MWO then Teamspeak.
Log into MWO then Teamspeak

Enter the ready and waiting lobby on our teamspeak server.

Press launch and Pug until there is an opening in a group or join a group with an opening right away if one is available.

So essentially the time difference is what it takes to launch and log into teamspeak maybe 5 seconds if I take my time.

If there is no openings right away I rarely wait longer than 2-3 pug drops before I get at least one team member to group up with.


So honestly the real time consuming part is step one down load team speak and step two join a player run organization that hosts a team speak server.

This will take you about 10 minutes for team speak and several hours for the player organization because I do recomend you shop around for a good fit.

Once you handled the front end logistics of finding a corp to join and downloading VOIP the average additional time spent over and above what you use up now is under 5 seconds.

[Troutmonkey]

Lykaon, on 17 November 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

I'm not sure what you think it takes to join a VOIP group. But let me tell you how it works when I do it.

Bah, I don't want to join a group. They'd get fed up because I stop every 3 or so games to browse the forums for half an hour.
Anyway the thread is "Becoming Unplayable For Pugs". The moment I join a group I'm no longer a PUG player. We need something that will work for the average player who isn't attuned to configuring a TeamSpeak server (or Vent, or Mumble).