178 replies to this topic

[DocBach]

Deathlike, on 24 September 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

Actually, the current state of HSR for SRMs, despite the increased damage is actually pretty terribad. I'm trying to grind with the C4 (which I have effectively trolled myself) and the state of SRMs even while chainfired is just terribad. Streaks are far more reliable, despite the randomness (and its tendency to annihilate BJs).

I'm in the camp that we should probably wait for the SRM hit detection to be fixed before doing anything too drastic with the weapon system. Like when the PPC's were buffed before HSR and after HSR for energy weapons hit the game became nothing but PPC's for five months.

[Hexenhammer]

No hero light? Urbanmech to the rescue.

[FupDup]

Deathlike, on 24 September 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

I remember the days where I trolled Spiders during its debut with the OP 3L. It was DOA at the time.

Of course with the wonky HSR and hitboxes, I guess the Spider is "climbing back up the spout".

Out came the Streakintaros and washed the Spider out?

[Deathlike]

DocBach, on 24 September 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

I'm in the camp that we should probably wait for the SRM hit detection to be fixed before doing anything too drastic with the weapon system. Like when the PPC's were buffed before HSR and after HSR for energy weapons hit the game became nothing but PPC's for five months.

I will agree with it to a degree, but I think we'll find out that the SRM 2.0 damage "buff" months ago is going to stay instead of Paul's insistence that it needs to go back to 1.5. Having seen the effectiveness of the current damage of Streaks is pretty much a confirmation of the "lack of splash" has affected SRMs a lot more.

[Kunae]

DocBach, on 24 September 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

I'm in the camp that we should probably wait for the SRM hit detection to be fixed before doing anything too drastic with the weapon system. Like when the PPC's were buffed before HSR and after HSR for energy weapons hit the game became nothing but PPC's for five months.

We should, yes. But then they shouldn't have over-buffed SSRMs again, simply because they are inept at fixing the HSR/Spider issues. By rebuffing SSRMs the were able to mitigate the hate against a bugged feature that they are incapable of fixing.

Edited by Kunae, 24 September 2013 - 12:20 PM.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 24 September 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

Out came the Streakintaros and washed the Spider out?

More like out came the (players) qq to want the Spider out (of this game).

Edited by Deathlike, 24 September 2013 - 12:21 PM.

[DocBach]

MWO's own Sommer Strauss did a nice rendition of the Javelin. This 'Mech would be an awesome addition to the light 'mechs stable, and as a Streak boat would be an awesome solution to whatever bug problem -- be it Locust, Spider or Cicada -- your team might be having.

Edited by DocBach, 24 September 2013 - 12:22 PM.

[dario03]

I say we just forget the time line all together or at least change it to something like 1 year equal 10 years. Either have a day equal a day and then jump a decade on new years or just have a day equal 10 days. But I really don't see why it is needed and I want some new weapons so I say just forget it. I know the clans will bring a bunch of new stuff but how much stuff really gets developed in the IS each year? It seems like theres some pretty big gaps since the lore takes place over a big time frame. I don't want to wait decades for weapons. ER small and ER medium lasers, buffs to the pulse lasers, heavy machine guns, shorter range ac's that do similar damage but weigh less, anything really. I don't want buffs to streaks though I would be fine with buffs to regular srms, maybe just a speed increase and/or range increase.

Edited by dario03, 24 September 2013 - 12:25 PM.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Oh dont worry you'll get a hero spider, two days before they fix the spider hitboxes.

[Deathlike]

Xeno Phalcon, on 24 September 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

Oh dont worry you'll get a hero spider, two days before they fix the spider hitboxes.

Don't get people too excited over the mythical 6MG Spider.... that would be cruel!

[Zultor]

PEEFsmash, on 24 September 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

I think you are really bad at reading, because you are attempting to refute a bunch of points that I never made. When did I say I wanted a Streak buff or say that I didn't agree with the Streak nerf? The Streak nerf was the best thing that has happened to lights in the last 5 months. When did I say that Small lasers were useful?

PGI has already said they aren't going to stay strict to the timeline, and they have "fudged it" before. Now is the time to fudge it for the sake of gameplay. I'm not waiting around 18 years for an ER Small Laser lol. You have got to be kidding me.

How has the timeline been "fudged"? You are asking for an 18 year exemption for ER Small Lasers which wouldn't matter anyways. Who fears an ER Small Laser. ER Small Lasers aren't going to all of a sudden make light mechs king. Again, in my opinion, you are muddying your argument which should be "make their be a reason to play a light mech besides I like being an underdog or abusing lag".

Light mechs aren't supposed to go up against mechs triple their tonnage and win in a straight brawl and that is what this game was designed to be.

[PEEFsmash]

DocBach, on 24 September 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

MWO's own Sommer Strauss did a nice rendition of the Javelin. This 'Mech would be an awesome addition to the light 'mechs stable, and as a Streak boat would be an awesome solution to whatever bug problem -- be it Locust, Spider or Cicada -- your team might be having.

Streak boats are the ABSOLUTE LAST thing that light mechs need, as it would invalidate all other lights in light v light fights, but would be absolutely worthless against heavies/assaults. This would relegate the entire job of lights to being nothing more than shooting a bunch of auto-hit, dumb-aim missiles that crush other lights (which would all be doing the same braindead thing) which would completely eliminate any sort of skill curve, and they would be completely useless at fighting against mediums, heavies or assaults.

Zultor, on 24 September 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:

How has the timeline been "fudged"? You are asking for an 18 year exemption for ER Small Lasers which wouldn't matter anyways. Who fears an ER Small Laser. ER Small Lasers aren't going to all of a sudden make light mechs king. Again, in my opinion, you are muddying your argument which should be "make their be a reason to play a light mech besides I like being an underdog or abusing lag".

Light mechs aren't supposed to go up against mechs triple their tonnage and win in a straight brawl and that is what this game was designed to be.

You must not understand Role Warfare. Each Class should be equally important in securing victories. Big does not = better overall, it just = better in some ways but weak in others. The best teams should be balanced between the classes, and Assault-only teams should be as bad as Medium only or Light only teams because every class needs weaknesses.

I don't want lights to be "king." I want lights to be just as valuable to securing the win conditions of the game as any other mech, and there needs to be an important role that lights have to fill. Right now, take 12 assaults and sit on base and you cannot lose to a team balanced between classes and of equal skill. That is wrong.

More light options (including ER Small) will give lights more options to fill more roles. That's what I'm asking for. In the end, this game is not supposed to be 12 assaults vs 12 assaults, which is EXACTLY what it would be if there were no tonnage limitations in competitive 12 mans. The game needs to be balanced in such a way as to where the best drop decks at the highest skill levels are more or less equal representation between each Class, with each class filling an important role that is necessary for victory.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 24 September 2013 - 12:34 PM.

[DocBach]

PEEFsmash, on 24 September 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

Streak boats are the ABSOLUTE LAST thing that light mechs need, as it would invalidate all other lights in light v light fights, but would be absolutely worthless against heavies/assaults. This would relegate the entire job of lights to being nothing more than shooting a bunch of auto-hit, dumb-aim missiles that crush other lights (which would all be doing the same braindead thing) which would completely eliminate any sort of skill curve, and they would be completely useless at fighting against mediums, heavies or assaults.

You mean they'd have a specific role, and accomplish it in a way you determined as unskilled so that's bad?

[RandomLurker]

Nice pick on the Javelin. A classic and good mech.

However, I nominate the Spector. I would kill to have a jumping light with energy hardpoints on fully actuated arms. Ditch the ECM though. The last thing we need is a skirmisher as deadly as the Jenner carrying ECM. Or balance ECM properly. That would be nice too.

Second runner up: Wolfhound.

[Deathlike]

PEEFsmash, on 24 September 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

Streak boats are the ABSOLUTE LAST thing that light mechs need, as it would invalidate all other lights in light v light fights, but would be absolutely worthless against heavies/assaults. This would relegate the entire job of lights to being nothing more than shooting a bunch of auto-hit, dumb-aim missiles that crush other lights (which would all be doing the same braindead thing) which would completely eliminate any sort of skill curve, and they would be completely useless at fighting against mediums, heavies or assaults.

High ELO players avoid the Streaktaro like the plague.

It almost feels like a discussion about the 3L and how the ECM+Streak-to-CT combo was OP.

Man... those were the days.

[stjobe]

Zultor, on 24 September 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:

How has the timeline been "fudged"?

Well for starters the MWO ECM comprises functionality that's not available in 3050 - specifically the Angel ECM Suite (SSRM blocking effect) and Stealth Armor (no-target functionality).

[Deathlike]

DocBach, on 24 September 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

You mean they'd have a specific role, and accomplish it in a way you determined as unskilled so that's bad?

Technically, it would be new light meta where your new mech would be better than ANY light mech fielded.

That's kinda like what it felt like when the Highlander was introduced to the PPC-Gauss meta. The 732 was the perfect variant for that meta, and it had JJs which no other mech at the time could be compared to.

I'm not sure the new mech is ideal, especially when the Flea and Locust sizes can easily dictate how easily Streakable it is (like the BJ). You really need to think this a tad further.

Edited by Deathlike, 24 September 2013 - 12:35 PM.

[DocBach]

Deathlike, on 24 September 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

Technically, it would be new light meta where your new mech would be better than ANY light mech fielded.

That's kinda like what it felt like when the Highlander was introduced to the PPC-Gauss meta. The 732 was the perfect variant for that meta, and it had JJs which no other mech at the time could be compared to.

I'm not sure that's ideal, especially when the Flea and Locust sizes can easily dictated how easily Streakable it is (like the BJ). You really need to think this a tad further.

Except that its stock engine restriction would make it much slower than any of the other light 'mechs used and like Peef said would be largely ineffective against anything other than lights and effected heavily by ECM?

[Baba Yogi]

Zultor, on 24 September 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

Uh, isn't the CTF-3D available in 3050. At least according to Sarna.

it actually does here

http://www.masteruni...Name=Cataphract

this website is great to keep track of what variants are available

[Syllogy]

PEEFsmash, on 24 September 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

The title didn't allow me to list how little the developers have done for the light class, so let me post it all here.

6: Phoenix Light (Locust) will be by far the worst mech in the game, and is strictly worse than other (already limited) light options.

12: One of the best light weapons (Streak SRM) is far better when used AGAINST lights than when used BY them.

13: The only light ballistic (machinegun) is bad, and can only be used at all en masse. There is no other ballistic option usable by light mechs (no heavy machine gun, no light autocannon, etc.)

14: The game has ER PPCs, ER Large Lasers, giving extra and often-used options to Heavy and Assault mechs, but there is NO ER Small Laser or ER Medium Laser. The timeline has been "worked around" before, and in this case, the timeline needs to be "worked around" again.

15: Speed has been capped for what, a full year? In that time the development team has fixed and built and developed a thousand different things. Where is the work/news on netcode improvements so Lights can play without an artificial restriction?

Proof Locust is bad?

Streaks are Anti-Light weapons, not Anti-heavy/assault weapons.

ER Small and ER Mediums are Clan Tech.

Speed has been capped because of limitations with the game engine. The fix will be ready when it's ready. If you can do better, please, get to coding and show us how it's done.

I find it hilarious that you gripe about light mechs not taking damage, but then insist that the speed cap should be removed, which would make the problem even worse.

Edited by Syllogy, 24 September 2013 - 12:40 PM.