41 replies to this topic

[Black Sunder]

Those of you who play world of tanks know all know about the cloaking devices all enemy tanks carry but you never seem to have. Driving down the road and get hit from all sides by tanks you can't see or you're sniping a tank at range and easily withinin your view range only to have them disappear in an open field. I already get enough of the disappearing tanks in WoT even when I can see them 100m in front of me and they activate their cloaking device.

My plea to the devs is that Line of Sight mechanics are made simple and not based on nebulous RNGs or a camo system that no one can understand fully. If an enemy mech is 100m in front of me I should be able to see them unless they duck behind a building or other terrain. They should not become invisible(maybe if they had smoke rounds?).

Let me be clear though, I'm all for mechs having some sort of camo that can be painted on or whatnot. I understand that and its part of the TT game where hiding behind trees and things gave an advantage. But really once you fire you're gonna be exposed for good unless you fade back out of visual sight range . I have no problem with this. My point in particular was things being in open field...and you can't see them. Or things behind bushes that can't be seen until you are ontop of them.

Edited by Black Sunder, 11 November 2011 - 10:54 AM.

[Jack Gallows]

Chameleon Light Polarization is so old it doesn't exist anymore (one report of it being possible, that's it), and it's the only system from the Star League era that can do it. Clans don't have it either.

There won't be any cloaking mechs, don't worry.

[Adridos]

He meant it the other way. He said that you should see enemy tank if you stare at it and don't have to come in range as in WoT, where you stare at open field and.... wooosh, there are three tanks coming your way in the middle of the field.

[Kaemon]

I never understand why they felt the need to make the tanks completely invisible, when blurry or even slightly undefined would've sufficed.
Add in their 'bounce, whiff and doink' dynamics, and the fact that it's broken (when a tank 50m in front of you with no cover disappears and reappears at random that is hilariously fail) really all camo/cloak should do is make it mighty hard to hit crit areas.

Or even better, make LRMs/snipers increased lock time (blurry via scope/reticle zoom)but if you're up close less than 100m or moving it's game on.
That I could live with.

Edited by Kaemon, 11 November 2011 - 10:14 AM.

[Kaemon]

Oh and my camo will be the ruined building I climb into and hide in. *prays for seriously destructible terrain*

[Jack Gallows]

Adridos, on 11 November 2011 - 10:12 AM, said:

He meant it the other way. He said that you should see enemy tank if you stare at it and don't have to come in range as in WoT, where you stare at open field and.... wooosh, there are three tanks coming your way in the middle of the field.

Ah, thank you for the clarification, I have never played World of Tanks so wasn't 100% sure.

[Black Sunder]

Edited my post. I have no problems with camo but WoT makes it stupid.

[Alizabeth Aijou]

Jack Gallows, on 11 November 2011 - 10:09 AM, said:

Chameleon Light Polarization is so old it doesn't exist anymore (one report of it being possible, that's it), and it's the only system from the Star League era that can do it. Clans don't have it either.

There won't be any cloaking mechs, don't worry.

Chameleon LPS, gets re-invented around the time of the Jihad, though.
Or maybe that was just the NullSig... (Which hides heat and electrical emissions).

[Jack Gallows]

Alizabeth Aijou, on 11 November 2011 - 10:23 AM, said:

Chameleon LPS, gets re-invented around the time of the Jihad, though.
Or maybe that was just the NullSig... (Which hides heat and electrical emissions).

That's the void sig (which is basically null sig and ECM with cloak), so yeah it does appear later.

Don't really like the Jihad era personally, though.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 11 November 2011 - 10:25 AM.

[Kyll Long]

Man! I really wanted my Romulan cloaking device. Now I'm disappointed .

[Adridos]

I already said, he meant it differently (maybe he doesn't know about cloak on mechs in BT). If you wanted to correct Jack, it's nice, but a bit off topic.
And I know of only one mech using the technology now.

[Black Sunder]

Just to point out I do know about the CLPS and at this point in time for the game, unless the game goes on until Jihad era then we won't ever see it. Thats all.

[Alizabeth Aijou]

Jack Gallows, on 11 November 2011 - 10:24 AM, said:

That's the void sig (which is basically null sig and ECM with cloak), so yeah it does appear later.

Don't really like the Jihad era personally, though.

Except that the Kuritans got an experimental Jenner variant which *does* mount NullSig.
And Void Sig is smeg, imo.
Vastly inferior since it relies on not moving, while NullSig is distance-dependant, ditto for Chameleon LPS.
The ability to combine NullSig and CLPS means that it'll be a pita to hit a target thus equipped at long range.
Stealth armour does pretty much the same thing as CLPS, but cannot be combined.
NullSig and CLPS don't require an ECM either.

[Black Sunder]

Since people are getting off topic I've edited the topic title.

[Thomas Hogarth]

You know, my big complaint with the WoT system is the relative smallness of the maps means they had to make their camo system really aggressive. Also, it does not appear that there is any kind of bonus for smaller tanks, nor is there any kind of malus for huge tanks. Since it is based on a not-inexpensive item as well as an elite skill, you end up with light, low-profile tanks that everyone can see and a huge IS-3 heavy tank that cloaks at 30 meters.

Now if the same system is implemented in MWO, I'd like to see it so that the camo system(or whatever it's called) is a lot less aggressive. Basically, there is no reason for a pilot to be unable to see any mech at, say, two or three city blocks distance. Beyond that, and yeah, you're probably gonna need a spotter.

[UncleKulikov]

Agreed. There should be true line of sight.

However, for another mechanic, you could have a range of detection for each mech where enemies within that range are highlighted with a bright outline, and their positions marked on radar. That could be used to give scout mechs more utility.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

As long as they have the appropriate electronics - mainly I think scouts like the Jenner will crouch on (flat) rooftops and use the Mk1 eyeball - if we're defending maybe we'll have prepared positions with fibre optic land lines and NPC infantry spotting for us. Just hope that they have resupply points for those not using energy weapons.

[Thomas Hogarth]

For the sake of clarity: I do not think we should automatically be able to see targets a mile away just because we have LOS. By the same token, I do not think that we should be able to magically see behind buildings or hills without a spotter. Furthermore, I think spotting distance and view distance should not be linked.

For example, you can see down avenue A about five or six blocks, but only targets within, say, one or two blocks are transmitted to your teammates.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

add in the massive suppressors the tanks in WoT are isntalled with.
Devs; I want my A\C20 MUZZLE FLASH (aka 1-2 meters of flame roaring out the barrel)

oh and don't forget, in WW2 tanks fired hypersonic rounds...cause in WoT you never hear
shots from enemy units at range you only hear when its close or hits you

[Gaius Cavadus]

WoT's spotting system was one of the three reasons I eventually quit (the other two being arty and how much the matchmaker screwed over mid-tier tanks).

Horrible, horrible system.