49 replies to this topic

[Recon777]

Question: Why do contacts disappear after just a couple seconds most of the time? I find it very rare that a contact stays on radar long enough for LRMs to connect. Is there any documentation that explains EXACTLY how radar contact works? Enemies show up quite often, then immediately drop off. So its not like they are under constant ECM coverage. And they're within range. So what's going on?

[Joseph Mallan]

Lock is only possible when LoS is active. Or a team mate has LoS for you. This is disrupted by ECM.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 26 September 2013 - 03:31 AM.

[stjobe]

Ol' Joe has it right - targeting (and the radar/minimap) is Line-of-Sight based, and is disrupted by ECM.

The IFF triangle on the HUD and minimap will disappear if nobody on your team has LoS to the target - or if they (or the one having LoS to them) are shielded by ECM - hence why early contacts often disappear quickly while later contacts will be much more reliable.

[Joseph Mallan]

A broken clock is right twice a day Jobe.

[Recon777]

Well that's interesting. I thought radar contact was dependent on distance, not line of sight.

After all, if its line of sight, then why is it that often I'm in a Jenner and I get "Warning incoming missile" so I run like hell and dodge and weave between buildings, and find a spot NOBODY can see me, and the warnings continue to come in and missiles continue to rain down on me. Even though I know nobody can see me.

[Joseph Mallan]

Radar will give you a lock under... 600-700 Meters IIRC. Over that you will also lose lock.

[stjobe]

Recon777, on 26 September 2013 - 04:34 AM, said:

Well that's interesting. I thought radar contact was dependent on distance, not line of sight.

It's both, actually. The target needs to be in LoS *and* in range to show up as a contact.

Recon777, on 26 September 2013 - 04:34 AM, said:

After all, if its line of sight, then why is it that often I'm in a Jenner and I get "Warning incoming missile" so I run like hell and dodge and weave between buildings, and find a spot NOBODY can see me, and the warnings continue to come in and missiles continue to rain down on me. Even though I know nobody can see me.

ECM-cloaked scout with TAG behind you? Also, when LRMs lose lock they continue to the location you were when they lost lock; if you're still there you will still get hit, so it all depends on just when you manage to lose their lock.

IIRC, LRMs are guided for approximately 80% of the distance to target; the last 20% is unguided.

[Mechteric]

Never rely on indirect targets provided from PUGs unless they are in a big brawl. This is because they will most likely be using cover and only poking out for a second or two at a time just to get the shot off (or get their face shot off) before going back to cover.

The best I can offer when LRMing in PUGs is to always have ALL of the following, in order of importance:

- Have your own TAG
- Have your own BAP
- Have the target decay module
- Have the sensor range module
- Have the seismic sensor

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 26 September 2013 - 05:27 AM.

[Kunae]

Also understand that you must maintain your missile-lock until the missiles hit, or they will become unguided as soon as you lose lock.

As far as your experiences with your Jenner, the warning will stay as long as missiles that were initially fired at you, with a lock, are in the air. If they lose lock, and regain it while the missiles are still airborne, the missiles will resume tracking.

Once missiles lose lock, they continue traveling to their last known lock location, so if you do "break lock", make sure you move a little ways away from where you were when you broke it, so that the missiles will miss.

[Recon777]

Well, as I said, I would run and dodge and hide and THEN get brand new "warning incoming missile" messages. This is after I was completely sure that nobody was on my tail and nobody could see me. Hiding up against a building in River City for example, with no line of sight to anything far off.

But ok so if it works how you're saying that explains the lost contacts so much. So it really is rather difficult to get LRMs a solid lock for the duration of the flight. But as you said, if they continue to go to the "last known position" then that should still hit if they are a slow mech or if they are standing still even if I lost lock.

I think the most irritating thing is when I get a lock, and fire the missiles, and then immediately lose the lock and my missiles just slam into a ridge or something. The worst is on Terra Therma, where the LRMs seem to be entirely useless due to those damn high mountains. That map is horrible on so many levels. Seems the only good weapon there is Autocannons and SRMs.

I just bought my Catapult C1. So its just got the stock config for the moment until I can earn some equipment for upgrades. For now, I just got the pair of LRM15's and the quad Medium Lasers. Not a very good setup.

[Kunae]

Recon777, on 26 September 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

I just bought my Catapult C1. So its just got the stock config for the moment until I can earn some equipment for upgrades. For now, I just got the pair of LRM15's and the quad Medium Lasers. Not a very good setup.

If you want to play it as an LRM support mech, here's a config I would suggest:

2x LRM20's with artemis.
2x ML CT
1x Tag, L or R torso
XL300
BAP
Endo
DHS
4 JJ's
Fill up the rest with ammo/DHS, balanced to your preferences.

This gives you a fast, agile, self-tagging LRM support mech, with pretty good durability. Try to stay in the 250-400m range from the main brawlers. Self target and tag things, and always stay moving.

Edit: Ah yes, forgot modules: Once mastered it should be:

Adv Seismic
Adv Target Decay
Adv Sensor Range

Edited by Kunae, 26 September 2013 - 06:10 AM.

[Galenit]

Recon777, on 26 September 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

I just bought my Catapult C1. So its just got the stock config for the moment until I can earn some equipment for upgrades. For now, I just got the pair of LRM15's and the quad Medium Lasers. Not a very good setup.

First thing: remove one laser and take a tag for it. Works only with los but helps a lot.
You should hold some jumpjets, if you use them right you can regain a lock for your missiles with a jump, but may be hit during this. BAP is your friend. Artemis and tag and los makes missiles shine, best distance is around 400m for a good use, if you have enough ammo you can do suppressionfire over 500m, but dont expect great numbers from it.
Targetdecay is your first modul, then seismic and sensorrange.

[Almond Brown]

Kunae, on 26 September 2013 - 06:08 AM, said:

If you want to play it as an LRM support mech, here's a config I would suggest:

2x LRM20's with artemis.
2x ML CT
1x Tag, L or R torso
XL300
BAP
Endo
DHS
4 JJ's
Fill up the rest with ammo/DHS, balanced to your preferences.

This gives you a fast, agile, self-tagging LRM support mech, with pretty good durability. Try to stay in the 250-400m range from the main brawlers. Self target and tag things, and always stay moving.

Edit: Ah yes, forgot modules: Once mastered it should be:

Adv Seismic
Adv Target Decay
Adv Sensor Range

Just a quick add on. If you see an enemy Mech with a filled in triangle over their head, that is an ally with a Lock, select/reticule on (terrain does not matter) that Mech and Hit "R" and they will provide your LoS requirement as long as they hold that Lock.

[Kyynele]

Recon777, on 26 September 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

Well, as I said, I would run and dodge and hide and THEN get brand new "warning incoming missile" messages. This is after I was completely sure that nobody was on my tail and nobody could see me. Hiding up against a building in River City for example, with no line of sight to anything far off.

This is the reason everyone's saying you need to get the advanced targeting decay module for LRMs. It basically allows you to keep the lock 3.5 seconds after the line of sight is lost. Every serious LRM boat will have this, so just getting out of sight isn't enough. Get in real cover and stay out of sight until you don't get more warnings.

[OneEyed Jack]

stjobe, on 26 September 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

IIRC, LRMs are guided for approximately 80% of the distance to target; the last 20% is unguided.

Incorrect. They are guided all the way in as long as you maintain lock. They just have limited turning ability.

OP: As to why the missiles seem to track you so long, it takes a short time (1.5 sec I believe) to lose lock on a target. If the target was tagged, it supposedly extends this time by some amount, but I'm not sure how much off the top of my head. There's also a module that extends it by a considerable margin. As to why you suddenly get new missile warnings, I think the warnings sometimes get a bit delayed, though I'm not positive about that. More likely, some part of you is poking out enough to be targeted, or there's an ECM Light, or something with a Sensor Range Module (outside your own sensor range), that can see you, but you get no IFF beacon from.

[stjobe]

OneEyed Jack, on 26 September 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

Incorrect. They are guided all the way in as long as you maintain lock. They just have limited turning ability.

As I'm not a frequent LRM user, I'm not going to press the point too hard, but I do believe the last part of the trajectory is unguided unless you have LoS/TAG on target.

[Kunae]

stjobe, on 26 September 2013 - 07:06 AM, said:

As I'm not a frequent LRM user, I'm not going to press the point too hard, but I do believe the last part of the trajectory is unguided unless you have LoS/TAG on target.

No, he was correct. Missiles are 100% guided, as long as the firing mech has missile-lock.

[Recon777]

I ended up putting my TAG on it, and buying a BAP. Cheap way to get the mech useful until I can afford to switch it completely to beam weapons.

I'm just using this for LRMs now since the mech came with twin LRM15's. I'm really after the above loadout for the C1 but its gonna take quite a bit of money to save up for that.


I still have serious problems holding a lock onto ANY target without incurring extreme wrath from said target. The game just isn't friendly to the idea of sitting in one spot looking at one thing for any length of time.

Edited by Recon777, 26 September 2013 - 07:41 AM.

[Kunae]

Recon777, on 26 September 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

I ended up putting my TAG on it, and buying a BAP. Cheap way to get the mech useful until I can afford to switch it completely to beam weapons.

I'm just using this for LRMs now since the mech came with twin LRM15's. I'm really after the above loadout for the C1 but its gonna take quite a bit of money to save up for that.

Yeah...

That's a really horrible build, for a C1.

[stjobe]

Kunae, on 26 September 2013 - 07:28 AM, said:

No, he was correct. Missiles are 100% guided, as long as the firing mech has missile-lock.

All right, I stand corrected. As I said, I don't use LRMs very often, so I'm no expert on their behaviour. It was probably me misunderstanding some of the hotfix notes during LRMageddon II which talked about moving the drop-down point back 23% and adjusting the terminal angle of the missiles.

Either way, I happily concede