61 replies to this topic

[Roughneck45]

ECM is taken so you cant be targeted, no so much for the LRM defense, thats just a bonus.

LRMs werent taken simply because they suck. The smarter you opponent is the worse LRMs get, and most players made the assumption that they were not fighting idiots.

[Wolfways]

Wispsy, on 28 September 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

Well I did tell you catapaults are one of the worst for lrming.

But the Catapult is a classic mech!

But i do have a TAG on my RVN-3L (but no LRM's) which i use for scouting. It's easier to keep TAG on lights when you can (nearly) keep up with them.

Edited by Wolfways, 28 September 2013 - 07:51 AM.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

i use TAG on my fast 4SP when it has LRMs fitted. But then again I nearly always fire direct at 4-500m and keep moving.
I would like to see them a bit faster and the missile warning only work when they are at 250 to 300m.
In PUGs anything is OP/UP if you don't know how to use/counter them.

[focuspark]

Wolfways, on 28 September 2013 - 07:12 AM, said:

I don't use LRM's much but i've had a Catapult-C1 since CB, and the reason i don't want to fit a TAG is because it would replace one of my much needed energy hardpoints. 4xML's is bad enough for defense as it is.
Plus while using TAG may be useful vs. an Atlas (assuming he doesn't see you staring straight at him at only 750m and blasts you to pieces) it's way too hard to keep it on a light mech.

This. TAG should not require the sacrifice of a weapon to mount. It's a goddam laser pointer, how does it compete with a PPC for presence on a 'mech?

[Biglead]

focuspark, on 28 September 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

This. TAG should not require the sacrifice of a weapon to mount. It's a goddam laser pointer, how does it compete with a PPC for presence on a 'mech?

Good point, but the last thing I want to see is a 6 LRM5-a-pult with its own Tag...

[Prezimonto]

ECM should slow lock times for any mech that's not equipped with it. I don't mind if the actual equipped mech can not be targeted in the current fashion.

The effect of ECM should wane with distance:
~50m 4x lock on time
50m-100m 3x lock on time
100 - 150m 2x lock on time
past 150m nothing

Add collision damage back in the game and make packing in next to your ECM for full effect risky.

LRM's should target hardpoints based on probability in packets of 5 the way SSRM's do. They should then get a small damage boost. This will make it so LRM5's don't core large mechs super fast.

Edited by Prezimonto, 28 September 2013 - 09:22 AM.

[focuspark]

I'm not sure what else the launch party proved, but it proved to me that 'mechs over 40 tons should not be allowed to have ECM or Jump Jets.

Biglead, on 28 September 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

Good point, but the last thing I want to see is a 6 LRM5-a-pult with its own Tag...

Why? It has nothing else. Get within 200m of it and it's dead.

[SilentWolff]

Only thing the launch party proved to me is bad players are bad.

[Screech]

I thought I saw one LRM in the first match. I didn't really watch much of the other matches. I was impressed they had Brian Posehn there for commentary, too bad his mic never worked.

Edited by Screech, 28 September 2013 - 11:24 AM.

[WarZ]

Thell, on 27 September 2013 - 09:53 PM, said:

Honestly wasn't all that exciting to watch teams poptart until someone grew balls and rushed.

Why the devs are still allowing pop tarting I dont know. Its a cheap tactic, that puts anyone not using it at a huge disadvantage. A lot of my mechs I used to love dont have JJ's. But unless they are very fast they are usually out classed, especially playing in the higher elo. Its a nearly free damage / snipe shot with little chance for return fire. The bigger mechs that can mount the really heavy weapons loadout and still jump, basically have thier sluggish movement disadvantage negated by being able to drop out of enemy LoF instantly. If you try to peek and shoot without JJ, you have a much longer period of exposure. The more sluggish the mech, the longer it is. But the pop tart negates that penalty.

Even with all the nerfs they've tried to address it, everyone still considers it the prime tactic. So even after multiple nerfs to the exploitive behavior, its still that good and preferred, that tells you something.

Ive had to start working JJ capable mechs into my inventory, lol. I feel a little dirty doing it now, but, it really is good. I should have started into it when the ppc was rolling at 2k m/s speed. But even basic lasers work well enough with it too.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

I have outlined my opinions on missile weapon balance with the idea that a single lrm5 should be useful but boated LRMs shouldn't be OP several times. Unfortunately so long as LRMs and SSRMs are regarded as no-skill weapons used only by noobs and scrubs by the general population PGI won't invest the time required to turn missile weapons turn into the valuable support weapons they should be.

As for ECM... I think it's great as an information warfare tool even though it exceeds it's TT role in that regard and really only requires a few tweaks IMO. However, SSRM (and SRM which shouldn't be dumbfire but that's a different issues altogether) should (logically due to their speed and their short flight time) have their own on board targeting rather than radar guidance from the launcher/spotter mech and shouldn't be affected by ECM.

In the vein of increasing information warfare, I also think BAP needs some boosts. BAP equipped mechs should show the ECM bubble on the map once you get within a certain distance (say 500m) and permit the transmission of your location of your targeted mech to your team through ECM bubble (with an altered icon) in addition to its ability to detect powered down mechs and extended detection range.

[Monky]

It proved ridge/jump sniping is the main tactic as well.

[Purlana]

focuspark, on 28 September 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

This. TAG should not require the sacrifice of a weapon to mount. It's a goddam laser pointer, how does it compete with a PPC for presence on a 'mech?

Go ahead and mount the PPC then. It's a team game, so you could always get your scouts to run UAVs....

[Inkarnus]

Yosharian, on 28 September 2013 - 05:49 AM, said:

The fact is people aren't bringing TAGs to these fights, that's why LRM is being negated so heavily. ECM doesn't mean **** if you get instantly TAG'd, but people refuse to bring this equipment to fights cos it doesn't do TEH UBER DMG! Same thing for AMS.

they mostly too refuse to use an UAV even thou it could be very powerfull if used right

[Cybermech]

ye the hiding was really boring, people call it playing smart and to certain extent and certain situations sure.
but this always hiding mentality really shows the skills of too many players.

[Purlana]

Cybermech, on 28 September 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

ye the hiding was really boring, people call it playing smart and to certain extent and certain situations sure.
but this always hiding mentality really shows the skills of too many players.

You want them to stand in the open?

[Inkarnus]

tollmuch eh?

What was the best tactic with 8 ppc stalkers?
yes hide in base and chill!
Most players havent used Tactics and Build diversity in ages
dont force them to play something other then the FOTMs
else some guy will Troll and say NO to anychange.

No adapt and overcome is bad bad i tell you its satans work!!!!
GOBIGORGOHOME till there are no players anymore.
Why should we take more mobile mechs and cap the base?
Why its no Honor in it lolz!
/irony

PPL are simply lazy thats all they will stick to whats OP and work
and dont change it (atleast that showed me the Launch event).
If they are not forced to adapt and work newstuff out.

Tactics? in this game not gonna happen for the most of em!
Camp is the answer even thou it brings boring fights
but ppl themselfes are to blame for that for beeing lazy and
wanting to win at any extent instead of having a fun game

Edited by Inkarnus, 28 September 2013 - 03:33 PM.

[RandomLurker]

Inkarnus, on 28 September 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

tollmuch eh?

What was the best tactic with 8 ppc stalkers?
yes hide in base and chill!
Most players havent used Tactics and Build diversity in ages
dont force them to play something other then the FOTMs
else some guy will Troll and say NO to anychange.

No adapt and overcome is bad bad i tell you its satans work!!!!
GOBIGORGOHOME till there are no players anymore.
Why should we take more mobile mechs and cap the base?
Why its no Honor in it lolz!
/irony

PPL are simply lazy thats all they will stick to whats OP and work
and dont change it (atleast that showed me the Launch event).
If they are not forced to adapt and work newstuff out.

Tactics? in this game not gonna happen for the most of em!
Camp is the answer even thou it brings boring fights
but ppl themselfes are to blame for that for beeing lazy and
wanting to win at any extent instead of having a fun game

ummmm... what?

[Odins Fist]

Sybreed, on 27 September 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:

Assaults mechs were either D-DCs or Highlanders and many light mechs had ECM.

What did you expect... Yeah rather pathetic, but really what did you expect....

[Sybreed]

Odins Fist, on 28 September 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

What did you expect... Yeah rather pathetic, but really what did you expect....

well, huh....