19 replies to this topic

[Simberto]

Hello, i got a few questions here.

I got started recently, and so far i have bought the Cataphract 1x with my cadet money, and build it around a bit. I am currently running with an AC20 and 4x ML, 1x LL in it. This makes me rather short-ranged, but it appears to work ok most of the time.

I have now saved up ~9m Cbills again, and i am thinking of either buying more cataphracts to get those to Elite, or buying up something lighter. Now, regarding the Cataphracts, which of the variants would be more useful to have? I noticed that the 3D is a lot more expensive then the others, which i guess is based on it sporting that 280 XL engine. Which could be rather useful to have if i fit it in a light mech later on. I don't think an XL engine on a Cataphract would be a good idea, since it would make me a lot more vulnerable?

But generally speaking, which cataphracts would you suggest, and with what kind of a loadout? I was thinking about going with something a bit more long-ranged in my next loadout, but i noticed that the Cataphracts arms are pretty low, so i'd probably want any sniping weapons to be placed in the side torsos?

Another thing i thought about is that i rather enjoy the current Trial Jenner. Running about at 140 kph and destroying large mechs is rather fun. However, the question would be once again, which light mechs are good? How important is it to have ECM? Not being targetable unless you get really close sounds incredibly useful, and is one of the major reason lights are annoying to play against in my experience, but only a few of the lights do have an ECM built in.

Since i only play alone or in unorganized groups with a few friends, i don't see a lot of use in getting stuff like TAGs or NARCs, so what kind of weaponry should i shoot for in a light mech? And i notice that most of the stock lights are rather slow, so i guess i'd have to get a larger XL engine to make them work, right? In which case i probably want that Cataphract 3D anyways.

[Eldante]

The cata 3d is the only cata with jump jets so if you like jump jets the 3d is nice. The cata 4x with a 4 ac5/2ml loadout is alot of fun but the stock engine only allows you to go 48kph so a xl engine is a must. I run an erll,ll and ml with my ac20 in the 1x so it allows me to hit at range and the heat is a bit more forgiving. Cataphracts are alot of fun if you stay behind the front lines. Also im not completely sure but i dont think a light mech can have a xl 280. on a spider the biggest is 255. Ecm is awesome but...you sacrifice fire power for it which i dont really feel is worth it in pugs unless your running with friends or a clan. Most light mechs work nice out of stock engines but you still have to buy endo steel and ferro with double heat sinks to really have any fun with them.

[Simberto]

Hm, but the current trial Jenner runs on an XL 300 engine, so i assumed you could fit any engine into any mech you like as long as you got the necessary tonnage. That would make stuff more complicated.

Edit: Ok, i looked it up, and apparently there is a formula for which engine you can fit into which mech:

http://mwo.gamepedia...ictions_Formula

Which means that the 280 would fit into some of the light Mechs, but not all of them.

Edited by Simberto, 27 September 2013 - 11:55 PM.

[aniviron]

You're quite observant- most of what you say is spot on.

Eliting mechs makes a pretty big difference, I recommend it. You can always sell some of the variants later, but speed tweaks +10% boost is big, and eliting three mechs doubles all the basic efficiencies, which is huge. The 3D is considered to be the best cataphract by most; it's got pretty reasonable hardpoints, and the jumpjets make it much more mobile. An XL in a cataphract is a bad idea for the reason you state, and the XL280 would do okay in the lights that can use it, though generally you'll want to run a 300XL.

If you do wind up going for a CTF-3D, most of the popular builds revolve around 1 gauss + 2 ppcs or 2x gauss for long range engagements. I highly recommend playing around with the online mech lab here http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab and posting some builds; people are more than happy to give feedback on builds around here. As far as arms vs torso goes, it's a matter of preference. Arm mounted weapons are faster and more precise to aim, but more vulnerable and worse for peeking over ridgelines, at least in the CTF.

If you wind up going with lights, the Jenner is definitely the way to go. The commando is a bit outgunned and fragile right now, the Spider has some okay variants but the only thing keeping it working is its bugged hitboxes which artifically inflate its survivability- once those are fixed, it won't be nearly so good. The Raven 3L is an excellent mech, but the other two Ravens are both quite bad, which means if you want to elite your 3L, you're in for a long expensive grind. All three Jenners are excellent, and though they lack ECM, they all have great hardpoints, a good physical model and hitboxes, they all reach the current speed limit of 150kph, and they all get jumpjets. The JR7-K is strictly speaking the same thing as the JR7-D but with one less missile hardpoint and thus worse, but it's still better than every other light except the Raven 3L, and the JR7-D and F are the two best lights right now, and always remain good regardless of balance changes.

Most light mechs you're going to be putting medium lasers in your energy hardpoints, streak srm2s or srm4s in your missile hardpoints, and don't get a light mech that relies on ballistic weapons- machineguns are not all that effective, and the lightest autocannon is 6 tons without ammo, and that's a crippling burden for a light. Here's a few fairly standard builds for the three most common lights: Raven-3L JR7-D JR7-F.

As far as TAG, NARC, etc go, don't bother. NARC is never worth it; it's far too heavy, and doesn't do much. Any LRM boat worth its salt takes it own TAG. And yeah, there's nothing worse than dropping onto a team with no LRMs and thinking, "Man, I could have had another laser here." Well, there's one thing that's worse, and that's tagging targets only to have the LRM carriers ignore the ones you light up.

Hope this helps! Be seeing you on the field. o7

[scJazz]

Simberto,
Welcome to MWO! Thank you for being a thoughtful and perceptive newb This makes things much easier.

Yes, you should buy the Cataphract 3D first. That XL280 engine will come in handy. Rather pointedly, it has spent time in nearly every mech I've ever purchased. Some Cataphract 3D configs run it with the XL others do not. Many use an even bigger engine. Cataphract 3Ds have always been useful on the battlefield no matter what the state of weapon balancing happens to be. Right now 2xUAC5s and some combination of lasers is the most commonly sighted config. Mine has 2xLBX10s and Medium Lasers because I hate using the FOTM design.

Yes that XL280 will operate in a Jenner which is probably the Light mech you want. It is a Skirmisher rather than an ECM support/scout. Try out the Trial Jenner F (C) available now if you want to experiment. It won't be wasted time since any XP you build up in it can be used once you purchase one. I have run a Jenner D both with a XL280 and XL300.

Good Luck and see you on the battlefield!

[John MatriX82]

Like the others suggested, if you are happy of your 1X, then buy 2 more cataphracts and master that chassis.

I suggest taking the CTF-3D asap and then go for the 2X. The 3D has the best movement advantage over any other cataphract and you'll like that XL 280 to open up build options for all three of your Phracts (and other mechs); then once you'll master that chassis, you'll benefit from better overall cooling, mobility and so on. After this you can decide which CTF is the best and get rid of the variants you don't like (I have 3D, 1X, got rid of the 2X - I also have the Ilya).

For loadouts generally go with xls 280/300 eventually 325, otherwise stick with the STD 280+endo (and ferro depending from the config) using ac 20s, 2X and 1X are good at this.

Stay away from the 4X, it's slow, needs an xl 255 and generally does ballistics worse than any Jager can, due to the low mounted weapons.

After you've done the above, then you can experiment some light fun with the Jenners, so you can recycle that xl 280 in either of them all (plan to invest on xl 295 or 300 are even better and can come handy on Cataphracts as well); best Jenners are F and D, K is a poorer D but houses 1 more module slot, which atm for you is useless since you don't have much GXP to spend on modules.

[mailin]

First of all, let me say that if you like the ‘phract and want to keep it, you’re hurting yourself and your team if you don’t get it mastered eventually. So, yes, you should buy two variants on the ‘phract.

When you get a light, because I know that everyone wants to be like me here’s this advice; I agree with most of what Aniviron wrote about lights . . . to a degree. First my qualifications: I have all of the lights fully mastered and have around 5000 drops in them, including logging over 9 days of elapsed time (yikes! If my wife finds out I’m in trouble!) in my Spider 5D (my current go-to mech).

First, TAG isn’t useless if you pug. In order for any mech to use TAG, it must have LOS. As a light pilot you have the ability to get behind the enemy quickly and TAG the mech furthest to their rear. Trust me, lrm boats look for the TAG symbol. Also, if you are in a light under the current meta you will probably not be getting a lot of kills or assists or doing a lot of damage. All of those things help you earn xp. One area that will help you earn a LOT of XP is if you TAG. When the first volley of lrms hit you will get a TAG bonus. These really add up per match. Also, you will get a spotting bonus for every mech that you target (by pressing 'R') that your friendlies subsequently target. Not every match will have friendly LRMs for you, but enough will. Also, by tagging the person that you are trying to kill, you will more than likely see the lrms arrive, increasing the chance of getting either a kill or a kill assist for you. Win-Win!!Yes, different mechs have different max engines they can use. Jenner (all variants): 300xl, Raven 3L: 295xl, Spider (all variants): 255xl. The reason I don’t have the Commando here is because I personally don’t like them.

The only reason the Raven is a viable light is because of the ECM unit. Before that was introduced the Jenner was the king of the lights. Having said that, ECM is here to stay and as long as you can use it effectively (there are a LOT of nuances to this) I feel the Raven 3L is the best light currently. If you decide to go the 3L route eventually, the build posted is close, but lose 6 points of armor from the head and max out the armor on those arms. On my Raven I have one mlas replaced with a TAG. For the sake of grinding, the other two Raven variants are not as good, but as long as you don’t think of them in the same category as the 3L you will be fine. The 3L is a nearly perfect stealth scout. It’s fast, has ECM and has decent armament for a light. With a TAG, you can get behind the enemy and your lrm friends can rain down the death while you stay out of harm’s way.

If you decide to go the Jenner route, most effective builds use nothing larger than medium lasers and srms or streaks. (This actually applies for all lights. There are those who will disagree with this, which is fine by me.) There are a range of thoughts on this, and there are some that will put large lasers or ppcs in lights, but for me there are too many sacrifices made with this kind of build. Note that if you have streaks on ANY mech, you need to have a BAP. Without it you will be 3L and 5D fodder.

Spiders are very twitchy, which can be good or bad depending on the skill of the pilot. PGI has made improvements to the hitboxes of mechs, including the Spiders, but some would argue that they are still not fixed. I think they just need to realize that Spiders are really tough to hit. But, whatever. The 5D is the best Spider build because of the ECM. For this mech there are a variety of armaments out there. My Spider uses 3 mplas. The 5D combines the ECM of the Raven with the Jump Jets of the Jenner to make a potent, very annoying little pest, which in the right hands can be deadly (my highest damage/kills in this mech are 1121 and 7 kills, 3 assists). This mech is generally thought of as something to drive after Jenners and Ravens because of this combination.

On Jump Jets: For most of my lights I only have 2 jets. The reason being that I use them to help me turn quickly or to get over short obstacles. You rarely, if ever want to use jump jets to fly through the air like a bird. If you doubt it, try it sometime. JJ are challenging to master, but worth it. They can help you outmaneuver the enemy, or with jump jets you can run past the enemy while firing, jet and turn a 180 and immediately fire on him again. It’s pretty flippin’ cool.

Happy Hunting,
Mailin

Edited by mailin, 28 September 2013 - 01:41 AM.

[Unnatural Growth]

While this has all been covered already with good advice, my 2 cents would be to elite up 3 Cataphracts, then focus on eliting up the 3 Jenners.

I've mastered 'practs, and kept the 3D and the 2X. I sold the 4X, as it's the slowest one with the smallest engine. Since they've buffed the UAC 5 jam, I've thought about getting one again and trying to run 4 UAC 5's.

The jump jets come in really handy in the 3D. It's great fun to JJ over a ridge after some mech that thinks he's safe once he hops over that ridge. I've caught several enemy pilots by surprise by doing so. On both my 'phracts, I'm running XL engines. It does make you more vulnerable I guess, but most good enemy pilots will target your right arm and torso anyway, as that's where most of your firepower is. Once you lose those, you're pretty vulnerable anyway, so imo, it's a draw. The XL's let me run faster, with better mobility, and give more weight savings for ammo. I try to twist away as I take fire to take some hits on my left and right arms too. I've survived some matches with no arms, and once even survived a match with no right torso. I have no idea how that happened, as I should have died due to the XL, but it only happened once, and must have been a freak glitch.

My 3D:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f810ec1907b293e

It runs hot on paper if you're in the ML/MPL's a lot. I can fire the cannons non-stop without heat issues, which is good for brawling imo. I save the MPL's in the arms mostly for lights that try circling me, or if I'm running really cool at the moment. The ML's in the torso are for brawling when I'm cool, but I stop firing them as I heat up. The AC 5, and even the AC 10 have some good range to them, so I consider this mech a good medium to short range brawler.

My 2x:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9ba8a3a4f0dbd20

This one uses standard structure as I ran out of slots before I ran over weight limit. If you're in the SRM 4's a lot, it will get hot faster, but I mostly use those on circling lights and for brawling when I'm running cool. The AC 10 I can fire until I run out of ammo without getting hot. The ERLL is just to add some long range harassment to keep enemy heads down while we close distance. And the ML's are for brawling also. This is another medium to short range brawler.

Jenners are expensive to fit out into a proper mech. If you buy the standard Jenner, you first need an XL (I highly recommend the 300), DHS's, endo steel and FF armor. That makes it one expensive mech (for a light). If you try running just a stock Jenner, you're going to be an arcade game target, and you're going to hate it.

So save those Cbills up while you elite your 3 'phracts, and use them to buy and outfit your first Jenner. I kept the -F (I "cheated" and bought the champion) and I kept the -D ( I sold my regular -D when I bought the Sarah Jenner, also a -D variant). I sold the -K variant once I elited it.

With that XL 300 engine, and your speed tweak unlocked, you'll run at 152 kph. That is so far, the fastest mech in the game. several can come close, but none can beat it. Your speed is your armor in a Jenner, the trick is learning to pilot it that way.

In my -F(c), I'm running an XL300 (comes with it), 6 ML's, 4 JJ's, Endo, FF, and 13 DHS's. It will run hot with the 6 ML's, so configure your weapons key assignments to reduce your heat. I have 3 left on one key, 3 right on another, chainfire on another, and alpha strike on another key. It sure ruins an LRM boats day when you can alpha stirke him twice on an arm mounted launcher and his arm blows off. I just start chainfiring when I get hot. I tried a bunch of different weapons combos in this mech, but I always seem to come back to the 6 ML's.

The -F(c) was my first mech I "owned", as at the time (and until very recently) all the trial mechs were terribad, and I got frustrated trying to run them. It is a favorite of mine.

My -D is a "Sarah Jenner", and the only change I made to it was I put in 3 JJ's, and finally took out the streaks and put in a single SRM 6. I'm still running the 4 ML's, and 2 left on one key, 2 right on another, then separate alpha key. I've surprised a few ECM lights that thought I was running streaks with that SRM 6. I had one Spider even run right up and face hug me on Canyon once. I guess he thought if he was right in my face I couldn't hit him? That didn't work out so well for him.

So, wall of text later, elite those 'phracts, then get in those Jenners. Just build up a Cbill cash pile first. Those 'phracts will make you some Cbills btw.

Good luck.

[William Radick]

Going to have to parrot the others here, work on getting those 'phracts to elite- once you get the 2 x basics you'll notice a big difference in how they handle. I mastered these when they came out, only kept the 4x - I'm sure most would disagree but I really love that one the best- dual lbx and an ERLL Nom Nom nom.

[Simberto]

Thanks a lot for all the detailed answers.

One more small question: I am slowly nearing my first 5k GXP, which modules are the most important in general? I am currently thinking about improved zoom, as i have fond memories of that one from older MW games (which i only played singleplayer since i didn't have internet at that time), and seismic sensors.

And since i am already asking: How does having the weapons in different groups help you with running hot? The thing i found about this was this here : http://mwo-builds.ne...ons-table/1001/ Which mostly says that as long as i don't fire more then 6 MLs or 2 PPCs at once i shouldn't have a problem. Is there any inherent heat advantage for chainfiring except for that, because otherwise it sounds just strictly worse then getting into position, firing all at once and then waiting out the heat if necessary?

[Marvyn Dodgers]

Regarding your last post, I am not sure about the latest updates, but in the past advanced zoom has resolution issues and generally wasn't worth it, but I will wait for the many, many, many others out there much wiser than me to weigh in on this.

[Unnatural Growth]

Modules will really depend on your playstyle and type of role you want to play. In my opinion, Seismic Sensor is the first module you should get. I run it in any mech I put on the battle field. Bear in mind that once you unlock the module with GXP, you still have to BUY the module with Cbills. That Seismic module is expensive at 6 mill Cbills, but it's worth it's weight in gold. I can't tell you how many times it has saved my butt, or allowed me to surprise a mech that thought it was going to surprise me instead.

The zoom is better now, they improved the resolution quite a bit. I don't have it myself, but have spectated team mates that had it. Big improvement over the old zoom feature. I don't play sniper roles really, so I just haven't felt the need for it for myself.

Binding your weapons out to separate keys helps you manage your heat levels better. It's not really just about alpha striking all the time, but depending on how hot you are at the moment, you can select either more or less weapons to fire at a time based on how hot you are, and how hot those weapons run. So you can keep firing and keep moving even if you're running hot. Hopefully moving to a place of cover so you can cool down. The hotter your loadout runs, the more important this can get.

I have a 5 button mouse now, and it gives me greater flexibility in how I set up my weapons, both for heat, and so I can also fire different weapons groups depending on which weapons put the enemy "in range".

[aniviron]

Simberto, on 28 September 2013 - 08:27 AM, said:

Thanks a lot for all the detailed answers.

One more small question: I am slowly nearing my first 5k GXP, which modules are the most important in general? I am currently thinking about improved zoom, as i have fond memories of that one from older MW games (which i only played singleplayer since i didn't have internet at that time), and seismic sensors.

And since i am already asking: How does having the weapons in different groups help you with running hot? The thing i found about this was this here : http://mwo-builds.ne...ons-table/1001/ Which mostly says that as long as i don't fire more then 6 MLs or 2 PPCs at once i shouldn't have a problem. Is there any inherent heat advantage for chainfiring except for that, because otherwise it sounds just strictly worse then getting into position, firing all at once and then waiting out the heat if necessary?

If you intend to do a lot of sniping, advanced zoom is actually quite worth it. It's by far the cheapest module, so the investment isn't that huge, but it really does improve your capability to fire precisely at 600+ meters. You will go from being able to reliably hit mechs to being able to reliably target components. Marvyn above expresses a bit of trepidation- for the last 13 months, Advanced Zoom was a terribly, blurry mess, but last month they finally fixed it. It's not quite as good as it should be- instead of having no zoom in your periphery and 4x in the center, you get about 3x at the periphery and the PIP view is 4x, I believe. If you decide to save, I would very very strongly recommend for the advanced seismic sensor- it was nerfed a while back, but even with a 250m range, it will let you see if there is certain death around every corner or not.

The heat article you linked is related to a mechanic that was implemented to stop people from building 6x PPC builds and the like. Essentially, for every PPC you fire within a .5s time frame past the second, you take an additional amount of heat on top of the 10 it already generates; that amount increases the more you fire. The way this works out in practice is as a hard limit to how many of a certain kind of weapon you can take on a mech, as the heat penalties are fairly brutal. While it is still possible to say, take six PPCs or six large lasers, you would have to try and fire them .5s apart each, which greatly increases the spread of your damage on the enemy mech, lowers your damage per second, and means you need to spend more time facing your opponent in combat instead of having your torso twisted away to present him with a smaller target. Here's more reading, from the horse's mouth: http://mwomercs.com/...general-update/ and http://mwomercs.com/...cale-the-maths/

Edit: Oh, and while quoting and 'liking' don't have any real function on the forums, it does give the person whose post you quote or like a notification when you do so- if you have questions for specific people, doing one of those two things to their post is a good way to get them to reply.

Edited by aniviron, 28 September 2013 - 12:08 PM.

[mailin]

If you want to have a sniper build, Advanced Zoom is now well worth it. It used to be nearly unusable, but now it is beautiful. As far as modules that are worth it, it really depends on your playstyle. I would agree though that the seismic sensor is definitely one to have. For a scout it's beneficial because it will often tell you how many enemies are in an area and where they are moving without having to expose yourself to fire. (Note that it only works on moving mechs.) For a brawler it's helpful if an enemy (like a light) darts behind an obstacle: using seismic you can tell which way to face so you can blast them when they reappear. Also note that all modules can be equipped and swapped out just like everything else.

[Simberto]

So, what do you guys think about CTF-3D this as a plan for a sniping CTF 3D?

Hm, i just notied that i forgot the AMS in there, and have one ballistic slot open. I guess i could take LLs or ERLLs instead of the PPCs, and then have additional tonnage for the AMS and maybe a few heatsinks. Don't think i can fit anything useful into that ballistic slot, unless i throw out pretty much everything else for another Gauss.

Edited by Simberto, 29 September 2013 - 11:06 AM.

[Junkman7mgte]

I'll parrot the - get the 'phracts elited - crew. I just finished my 3rd, and they are all a blast to pilot. The one I don't have, is the 3D, so my only help on that one, is ... Don't worry about filling every weapon slot. Run a build you feel comfortable with, and go kill things

[Unnatural Growth]

It's fun to experiment with different load outs. Just bear in mind that those standard PPC's now do zero damage at 90 meters and closer.

[FireSlade]

Simberto, on 27 September 2013 - 11:27 PM, said:

Hello, i got a few questions here.

I got started recently, and so far i have bought the Cataphract 1x with my cadet money, and build it around a bit. I am currently running with an AC20 and 4x ML, 1x LL in it. This makes me rather short-ranged, but it appears to work ok most of the time.

I have now saved up ~9m Cbills again, and i am thinking of either buying more cataphracts to get those to Elite, or buying up something lighter. Now, regarding the Cataphracts, which of the variants would be more useful to have? I noticed that the 3D is a lot more expensive then the others, which i guess is based on it sporting that 280 XL engine. Which could be rather useful to have if i fit it in a light mech later on. I don't think an XL engine on a Cataphract would be a good idea, since it would make me a lot more vulnerable?

But generally speaking, which cataphracts would you suggest, and with what kind of a loadout? I was thinking about going with something a bit more long-ranged in my next loadout, but i noticed that the Cataphracts arms are pretty low, so i'd probably want any sniping weapons to be placed in the side torsos?

Another thing i thought about is that i rather enjoy the current Trial Jenner. Running about at 140 kph and destroying large mechs is rather fun. However, the question would be once again, which light mechs are good? How important is it to have ECM? Not being targetable unless you get really close sounds incredibly useful, and is one of the major reason lights are annoying to play against in my experience, but only a few of the lights do have an ECM built in.

Since i only play alone or in unorganized groups with a few friends, i don't see a lot of use in getting stuff like TAGs or NARCs, so what kind of weaponry should i shoot for in a light mech? And i notice that most of the stock lights are rather slow, so i guess i'd have to get a larger XL engine to make them work, right? In which case i probably want that Cataphract 3D anyways.

Since my whole expertise is based around heavies and light assaults I am going to put my 2 cents in for getting a Cataphract. First off if you have the MC to spare you will love the Ilya Muromets with its 3 Ballistics and 3 energy plus cbill bonus. Otherwise just about all models are beasts in their own rights if you follow their roles. The 2X is close to the 1X except it trades 2 arm energy slots for 2 missile slots which is perfect for 2 SSRM 2s or 2 SRM 4s. The 3D is made more for hit and run roles thanks to the JJs and XL. It is a great mech with plenty of options for how you want to roll. The one thing that I do not like about the 3D is that one ballistic is in the arm and the other, right ST. The reason that I have a problem with it is if you have 2 ACs/Gauss on it you will have trouble lining up the shots unless you turn arm lock on, which I find to be a hassle. XLs in Cataphracts just about go hand in hand; they do not reduce survivability since they have very small side torso hitboxes and add speed and tons for you to play with. You might have noticed with your 1X that most times you go down mostly because of loss of CT and not ST; Catapults are the same. Just remember to rotate while your weapons cycle so that you spread the damage across your torso and do not use CASE if you have an XL.

[FireSlade]

personalgame, on 29 September 2013 - 06:33 PM, said:

But in most cases, which cataphracts would you recommend, and with what type of a loadout? I was considering going with something a bit more long-ranged in my next loadout, but i observed that the Cataphracts hands are fairly low, so i'd probably want any sniping weaponry to be placed in the part torsos?


------------------------
Enjoy it
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Well there is a few that I would run and you are right that the torso slots are great for sniping. For the 2X I would run this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ed0855597bba148 it has 2LL which could be swapped out for 2ERLL for similar PPC ranges, an AC5 with 60 shots (300 damage worth) and 2 SRM4s with 25 shots. With the 3D I would go with this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...10617057660244a A lot more expense but it is fast has the 2LL like the 2X and uses an AC10 and 2ML for close range back up. If you want something in the way of a Hero Mech then here is the Ilya Muromets design that I use now: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3528790134d7814 I rarely get under 400 damage with this and 60 rounds of Gauss Rifle ammo is worth 900 damage; you just have to be careful about the low slung arms. These obviously can be made better for your skills so try playing around and seeing what you are willing to pay and if you ever get the nerve for it I highly recommend the XL engines on all Cataphracts except the 4X. Good luck and good hunting.

[Mycrus]

Cataphract 4x 4AC5 build aka atlas can opener...

All jenners are good... Even the K