90 replies to this topic

[Demosthones]

Asakara, on 30 September 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

With 33% more mechs on a team it seems to me that it would make sense to expand their parameters by 33%. By doing that we get these parameters:

Balancing..............Tonnage Difference
Tolerable.............. 6.65 to 53.2
Not-Tolerable....... 59.85 to 99.75
Horrendously Bad 106.4 to 266

I really like the effort you put into this. Only problem is you can not make your entire argument based on your 33% assumption. I do not know how they came up with their original numbers. But you would need to follow the same steps they did to get accurate ranges for your categories there. After your ranges are correct, then start keeping track of your matches.

[Fut]

Khobai, on 23 October 2013 - 05:04 AM, said:

Speed wasnt as good in TT as it is in MWO though. The difference between a light and a medium was maybe a +1 to hit in TT. Where the difference between a 151kph light and a 100kph medium is absolutely enormous in MWO.

Anyways the point is role warfare could easily engineer a role for mediums to excel at. The problem is role warfare is non-existent. And weight balancing is just a lazy way to force players into medium mechs.

What sort of role do you think that the Mediums should be engineered for?
I'm not trying to be a {Richard Cameron} or anything, - as a dedicated Medium Pilot, I'm honestly interested in knowing your thoughts.

As far as I'm concerned, a Medium should be capable of tackling multiple roles out on the field. It all just depends on the load-out you give them before the drop. Which makes sense... haven't they always been the "Jack-of-all-trades" Mech in BT?
So for me, "forcing" them into one specific role just doesn't make sense.

The only thing I can really think of to make them a little more appealing to people would be to slow down the Torso-Twist and Arm Movement on the Heavies and Assaults (which I'm sure a tonne of people will oppose with great fury). This would bridge the gap slightly between the two, allow the Mediums to actually compete with the bigger guys and actually increasing the need for Mediums to help defend the Assaults from lights.

This is going to be a really lame comparison (lame because the game kind of sucked, not because of the IP I'm about to mention), but take a look at Battlestar Galactica: Online. Much like MWO, there are different classes/sizes of ships that a player can choose - from a single seat fighter all the way up to a massive destroyer.
The big-*** ships are incredible damage dealers, and they tank a tonne of damage as well - but a single fighter in the hands of a competent pilot can get into the blind spots on them and actually take them out (it's risky though, and you have to really know what you're doing). The big guys need to have a medium sized ship around to help defend when the fighters come around.

Back to MWO, if Heavy and Assaults were slightly slower with their twisting and such, it wouldn't be impossible for them to destroy a light, it would just be more difficult and it would be easier/smarter to just take a Medium along for the Drop.
Mediums would become more popular, as they'd stand a slightly better chance when fighting a Heavy/Assault, and they'd have at least one actual role in MWO - Assault Defense.

****, to think I started off this post by saying they shouldn't have a set role. That's kind of funny.
Although, this change wouldn't force every Medium into a defense-only position. They'd still be able to be a "Heavy-Scout" or "Light Hunter" or "Fast Attack LRM Support"....etc

Edited by Fut, 23 October 2013 - 05:37 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

What sort of role do you think that the Mediums should be engineered for?

Versatility mostly.

I personally think the modules should be divided up by weight class so only certain weight classes can use certain modules. And there should also be generic modules that all weight classes can use.

One of the advantages of medium mechs should be having the most module slots and the broadest selection of modules.

[smokefield]

Voidcrafter, on 23 October 2013 - 02:29 AM, said:

I woudn't say that if for the every single medium in your team you got a DDC on the other - cause that I can hardly call "interesting odds" - and believe it or not that happens.
.
.
.

Even one that's so into the "challenge" as I am.

you got a point there but in my 1500 games i never, not once, encountered a full lance of DDC's. Maybe they play at other hours...I don't know, but probably if I am to see a full lance of DDC I will agree with you.

[Fut]

Khobai, on 23 October 2013 - 05:38 AM, said:

Versatility mostly.

I personally think the modules should be divided up by weight class so only certain weight classes can use certain modules. And there should also be generic modules that all weight classes can use.

One of the advantages of medium mechs should be having the most module slots and the broadest selection of modules.

Although I think that's a really good idea, it will only help the more experienced Medium Pilots out - seeing how the modules cost a lot of Cbux. So a novice pilot, who is unable to afford a module (let alone 3 or 4) is stuck in a Mech that's under performing the other weight classes. So we're still stuck with people not wanting to use them because it takes to much "grinding" to get them to where people want them (damn instant gratification crowd).

[Voidcrafter]

smokefield, on 23 October 2013 - 05:49 AM, said:

you got a point there but in my 1500 games i never, not once, encountered a full lance of DDC's. Maybe they play at other hours...I don't know, but probably if I am to see a full lance of DDC I will agree with you.

Well in my 2915 games(at least since there's a counter) that's not that uncommon. Probably about 1/3 from my games yesterday were like that(I made ~15 matches), antoher 1/3+ of them were with MORE than 6/7 assaults(as I said somwhere earlier - mostly flavour-of-the-month highlanders), grouped if not in once lance, then in 2 by pairs + some other assault and another heavy/assault.
You know what I'm thinking - that could be even an ELO issue - but either way I WILL not tolerate it.
Yea - we probably have won about the half of those games, even if they were quite unfair - but there's something really fishy with this matchmaking...
And I don't even think about lying - I'm completely honest when I'm telling you, that almost in any single game I was, there were a lance from at least 3 assaults, paired with another once that's with at least 2 assaults.
'tis cool - I'm ordinary in something that, given the time, chop down big slow targets quite fast - but until I get to the real chopping, most of my team mates, of course - consisting from mostly medium mechs - are either gone or in no condition to go into another fight.
And to be completely honest - again - I really love those THIS-IS-SPARTAAA-(insert 0<-->X 'A's here) heroic moments, and by the stats after the match - I can tell that my team mates(well... most of them) didn't do that bad, AND still this just... feels wrong, you know?
Like "Well... you have no chance to win the match, but go there and last as long as you can and make em suffer!" game mode...
Do you think it was intended to be like that because... I really don't know

[Joseph Mallan]

smokefield, on 23 October 2013 - 05:49 AM, said:

you got a point there but in my 1500 games i never, not once, encountered a full lance of DDC's. Maybe they play at other hours...I don't know, but probably if I am to see a full lance of DDC I will agree with you.

I have... Probably cause back in Closed Beta the Law would do it on a Lark.

[smokefield]

lets be clear...when i say a full lance of ddc i mean a full 12 of them...cause i saw a lot of 4 dropping togheter.

[Joseph Mallan]

smokefield, on 23 October 2013 - 10:26 AM, said:

lets be clear...when i say a full lance of ddc i mean a full 12 of them...cause i saw a lot of 4 dropping togheter.

Lance=4 Mechs
Company=12 mechs

12 Atlas= Steiner Scout Company.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 23 October 2013 - 10:29 AM.

[smokefield]

roger. thats why i wanted to make things clear

[Voidcrafter]

Either way I may not be the most impartial person in the world - especially for the last 3 days - I don't know why but I feel sleepy as hell when I get home and I'm just so tired that I could barely hit an AWS 90m away(well ok... it aint THAT bad ).
But these few days I'm really having some very bad games and I see increase in numbers of both Potarding HGNs and PPCs carried - while me and my fellow wingmans are dropping with some people in mediums/heavies that can barely hit a real-sized drawing of a mountain.
That said - I think it's probably my ELO's fault(well yea... it's easy to blame it since it's quite shady in the "details" ) and my failure to be in a condition to compete with it.
But ELO or not - IF there IS a weight difference with SOME max value - let we say it's 250 - when the roll for the players in the team gets to calculating the overall weight, when it happens to be more than 250 - it does some rearrangements - I'm COMPLETELY certain, that this value should be greatly reduced.
I'm not sorta the fair-odds kinda guy - I always jump on the hardest target, I tend to go head on with some impossible-odds engagements and etc. - but for real... this aint fun anymore.
Even if it IS a bit fun for me - I'm quite certain that the other 11 people(granted that there were no disconnects on my team, which rarely happened the last 3 days) don't exactly share my point of view you know?