27 replies to this topic

[MadCat02]

Lets say i have 2 games with exactly the same stats

Game one/ 750 damage and 7 kills . about 120.000 CB

Game two/ 750 damage 0 kills , 7 assist . about 160.000 CB

I don't want players who shoot arms and legs for cash . I want team that aims for CT!

WHY IS ASSIST FORMULA GIVES MORE CB FOR THE SAME DAMAGE !

CB reward should be baised only on damage and not who gets assist or kill .

Its stupid because you can troll and let people get kills so you get more cb .

Edited by MadCat02, 30 September 2013 - 03:12 PM.

[Corpsecandle]

Did you take into account the components?

Dev pointed out that a kill means you had to also get at least one component destruction bonus which puts you up over assist.

[MadCat02]

Corpsecandle, on 30 September 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

Did you take into account the components?

Dev pointed out that a kill means you had to also get at least one component destruction bonus which puts you up over assist.

As far as i know if you get the kills you are not affacted by nice fat assist formula which rewards high damage .

Also i only aim at CT if possible .

Edited by MadCat02, 30 September 2013 - 02:27 PM.

[Farix]

Assault Rewards:

• Component Destroyed = 2,500 * how many components you have destroyed
  
• Enemy Kill = 5,000 * how many enemies you have killed
  
• Enemy Kill Assist = 7,500 * how many kill assists you got in the match

The reason for the difference is because each kill requires at least one component destruction (typically the engine). So Enemy Kill (5,000) + Component Destroyed (2,500) = Enemy Kill Assist (7,500).

[MadCat02]

Farix, on 30 September 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

Assault Rewards:

• Component Destroyed = 2,500 * how many components you have destroyed
  
• Enemy Kill = 5,000 * how many enemies you have killed
  
• Enemy Kill Assist = 7,500 * how many kill assists you got in the match

The reason for the difference is because each kill requires at least one component destruction (typically the engine). So Enemy Kill (5,000) + Component Destroyed (2,500) = Enemy Kill Assist (7,500).

You get more CB for damage from assist rather than damage from kill .

[shintakie]

Farix, on 30 September 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

Assault Rewards:

• Component Destroyed = 2,500 * how many components you have destroyed
  
• Enemy Kill = 5,000 * how many enemies you have killed
  
• Enemy Kill Assist = 7,500 * how many kill assists you got in the match

The reason for the difference is because each kill requires at least one component destruction (typically the engine). So Enemy Kill (5,000) + Component Destroyed (2,500) = Enemy Kill Assist (7,500).

And in the time the one person got a kill, the dbag light/medium who wanted to maximize his earnins took pot shots at all 12 of the other team. By the end of the match, if even 2 of the mechs he cracked get blown up he'll have made more cbills than either kill. If his team happens to win, the dbag who ran around pokin all the things will have made more cbills than anyone on the team despite havin been the least useful out of everyone.

Cbill gains are out of whack. We all know this. Assists give too much for too little. Kills give too little for too much effort. Cappin objectives literally does not give you anythin other than xp.

PGI rewards people for bein jerks and actively makin the game harder for everyone else. Not only do they reward them, they made it the easiest viable way to make cbills since they nerfed the h out of cbill acquisition earlier.

[Farix]

MadCat02, on 30 September 2013 - 02:38 PM, said:

You get more CB for damage from assist rather than damage from kill .

C-bills for damage are payed out on a fixed rate. So If a mech does 100 points of damage only to have another mech come along and get the kill for 10 points of damage, then the one who does more damage gets more c-bills. Under this system, kill stealing is pointless as it doesn't affect the reward. Or are you suggesting that those who kill stealing should get more rewards?

P.S. I accidentally hit the report button when trying to reply. *Bows apologetically to the mods*

Edited by Farix, 30 September 2013 - 03:13 PM.

[Stelar 7]

shintakie, on 30 September 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

And in the time the one person got a kill, the dbag light/medium who wanted to maximize his earnins took pot shots at all 12 of the other team. By the end of the match, if even 2 of the mechs he cracked get blown up he'll have made more cbills than either kill. If his team happens to win, the dbag who ran around pokin all the things will have made more cbills than anyone on the team despite havin been the least useful out of everyone.

Cbill gains are out of whack. We all know this. Assists give too much for too little. Kills give too little for too much effort. Cappin objectives literally does not give you anythin other than xp.

PGI rewards people for bein jerks and actively makin the game harder for everyone else. Not only do they reward them, they made it the easiest viable way to make cbills since they nerfed the h out of cbill acquisition earlier.

Don't be melodramatic. If someone pokes all the mechs on the other team without killing them or doing significant damage then they are likely not going to be on the winning team, (no salvage) and those mechs have that much less chance to die (no assist). I'm not saying that some people won't use your version of thinking and try to minmax this way, just that it isn't actually minmaxing because it does't pay more.

Then again when I'm a light scouting I can either steal kills, or distract and get the rest of you a lot more, Those assist pokes are about all the cash I can get when I am letting the other side chase the squirrel, er spider.

[MadCat02]

Stelar 7, on 30 September 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

Don't be melodramatic. If someone pokes all the mechs on the other team without killing them or doing significant damage then they are likely not going to be on the winning team, (no salvage) and those mechs have that much less chance to die (no assist). I'm not saying that some people won't use your version of thinking and try to minmax this way, just that it isn't actually minmaxing because it does't pay more.

Then again when I'm a light scouting I can either steal kills, or distract and get the rest of you a lot more, Those assist pokes are about all the cash I can get when I am letting the other side chase the squirrel, er spider.

I know for a fact taht people troll with srm boats to get cash which result in more losses because its not a viable build .

[Stelar 7]

MadCat02, on 30 September 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

I know for a fact taht people troll with srm boats to get cash which result in more losses because its not a viable build .

I said, some people do it. However it is not time effective, heck it's not even good trolling, an ER large and a light will get way more assists because of mobility and opportunity. Assist only pays if the mech dies. So failing to help kill the mech does not pay.

[ColdPsyker1]

Stelar 7, on 30 September 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

Don't be melodramatic. If someone pokes all the mechs on the other team without killing them or doing significant damage then they are likely not going to be on the winning team, (no salvage) and those mechs have that much less chance to die (no assist). I'm not saying that some people won't use your version of thinking and try to minmax this way, just that it isn't actually minmaxing because it does't pay more.

Then again when I'm a light scouting I can either steal kills, or distract and get the rest of you a lot more, Those assist pokes are about all the cash I can get when I am letting the other side chase the squirrel, er spider.

Completely agreed. Speaking as primarily a light player, if I didnt get lots of money from assists, there would be no way I would make much money.

I''m also opposed to the idea of making assists count only if you deal "x" amount of damage. With my amazing couple of medium lasers/machine guns/ srms, I'm not dealing out tremendous amounts of damage to any specific mech.
Also, if there is going to be a light brawl (generally 3 or 4 light mechs a team), I'm usually busy tying them up for my team. So hell yeah ill poke at any enemy mech that comes into my sight, since most of my damage/kill efforts are going to be focused on like 3 enemy mechs.

[Deathlike]

This thread is bad, and you should feel bad.

It's better to post info that at least back up the argument, instead of whatever strange rambling that exists.






Assists are still worth more than kills in terms of C-bills, no matter how odd that is the financial reality of the MWO economy.

[Roland]

MadCat02, on 30 September 2013 - 02:38 PM, said:

You get more CB for damage from assist rather than damage from kill .

No, you will get the same for both.

[anubis969]

Deathlike, on 30 September 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

This thread is bad, and you should feel bad.

It's better to post info that at least back up the argument, instead of whatever strange rambling that exists.






Assists are still worth more than kills in terms of C-bills, no matter how odd that is the financial reality of the MWO economy.

True but the difference is only minor as can be seen in your pics. In assault an assist is worth 6500 c-bills where as a kill is worth at least 6399 c-bills (4300 for the kill, 2099 for the component destruction) possibly more. In conquest it's 3200 c-bills for an assist and at least 3199 c-bills for a kill (2099 for the kill, 1100 for the component destruction), again possibly more.

It used to be that kills where strait up worth more than assists, and while I didn't play back then I have heard the horror stories. Hell only the other day I had a "friendly" mech stand back and literally watch me fight an enemy mech then just as I was about to core the enemy mech my "teammate" ran in front of me blocking my shot and finished the enemy. While technically I got more c-bills than I would have had he helped, it did mean that the both of us were tied up longer than necessary. That sort of behaviour can very easily cost the team a win. So personally I'm really glad kill stealing isn't encouraged.

Edit: Clarity.

Edited by anubis969, 30 September 2013 - 06:06 PM.

[OznerpaG]

lights SHOULD get more cash for kills/assists than heavies since they don't have killer firepower - there should be a sliding scale according to the weight of your mech. a jenner doing 500 damage is more impressive than an atlas doing 500 damage, and they should both get paid accordingly. and if you'r a good pilot and you can get more cash doing the same damage in a jenner as you can in an atlas, then maybe you'd be more inclined to pilot the jenner over the atlas and we'd have more lighter mechs in the game

[Deathlike]

anubis969, on 30 September 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

True but the difference is only minor as can be seen in your pics. In assault an assist is worth 6500 c-bills where as a kill is worth at least 6399 c-bills (4300 for the kill, 2099 for the component destruction) possibly more. In conquest it's 3200 c-bills for an assist and at least 3199 c-bills for a kill (2099 for the kill, 1100 for the component destruction), again possibly more.

It used to be that kills where strait up worth more than assists, and while I didn't play back then I have heard the horror stories. Hell only the other day I had a mech stand back and literally watch me fight another mech then just as I was about to core the enemy mech my "teammate" ran in front of me blocking my shot and finished the enemy. While technically I got more c-bills than I would have had he helped, it did mean that the both of us were tied up longer than necessary. That sort of behaviour can very easily cost the team a win. So personally I'm really glad kill stealing isn't encouraged.

I just posted great games for myself (well, at least recently). The reality is that the differences are skewed in trying to poke everyone for assists to collect money. This is the least productive way to go. If I don't poke, I don't make money. If I kill a target, I collect more in XP than I do C-bills for the same task. I don't even have a great K-D ratio and I'm still trying to collect C-bills for something in the future (apparently, it's 1/12 of a dropship).

The details sadly matter.

[anubis969]

Deathlike, on 30 September 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

I just posted great games for myself (well, at least recently). The reality is that the differences are skewed in trying to poke everyone for assists to collect money. This is the least productive way to go. If I don't poke, I don't make money. If I kill a target, I collect more in XP than I do C-bills for the same task. I don't even have a great K-D ratio and I'm still trying to collect C-bills for something in the future (apparently, it's 1/12 of a dropship).

The details sadly matter.

Out of interest which way would you go instead?

[Deathlike]

anubis969, on 30 September 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

Out of interest which way would you go instead?

Increase the C-bill incentives for actually dealing damage. Scale it so that you aren't simply harvesting your enemy for money (although, you'll still be rich for doing it). Scale down the C-bill gain for assists.

Right now, it's only 21 C-bills per point of damage, so even a 30 point alpha is only worth 630 C-bills. It should be worth closer to 1k IMO, so the # has to increase by 50 to 100% (30 to 40 C-bills per point of damage).

C-bill growth should be on par with XP growth.. gains in XP is reflected properly (for the most part) to how much damage you deal towards what you get back for dealing it. A teammate who only steals kills generally does not accumulate that much XP.

Savior/Defensive kills skew the numbers a lot in the sense that if you're in the right place at the right time, you collect (and probably too much at that). Same is applicable to C-bills.

We're not supposed to really support a "spray and pray economy".

Part of what needs to be done is something like making every assist or kill be worth 15k max per enemy target on the field and the % of damage by each player will be a factor on the reward. Those who make kills will get a small C-bills bonus, so there isn't a major advantage for a kill or kill stealing.

This may nerf newbie gains somewhat, but if they get better, they make out more. Savior+Defensive kills should be worth much less, but at least incentivized enough for the purposes of focus fire.

At this moment, poking players for the simple chance of collecting assists is silly.. I can understand perhaps a base reward, but it doesn't really reward people who are dealing the actual damage. The game should certainly reward those are dishing it...

Edited by Deathlike, 30 September 2013 - 09:15 PM.

[Thejuggla]

One thing I could see help is requiring a set % of damage to get the assist, could be based on class. Also assists would count if you spots for an Lrm but didn't make the % cut.

[stjobe]

I think this is up to date:



So yes, a kill + component destruction is almost equal to an assist, CB-wise.

And yes, for us lights, assists is the main CB-maker, and Savior/Defensive assists is the main XP-maker.