64 replies to this topic

[Bhael Fire]

The problem is not with MGs....At all. It's just that spiders are pretty hard to hit.

I suggest that if you are having problems dropping spiders with lasers and ACs, use SSRM/2s and LB 10-X against them. They are extremely effective at hitting them...and taking them out pretty quickly.

Edited by Bhael Fire, 01 October 2013 - 07:25 PM.

[akpavker]

AC, on 01 October 2013 - 04:47 PM, said:

Its the spider. The Cicada 3C can carry the same loadout, and you don't ever hear anyone bitching about how awesome the Cicada 3C is.

that might have something also to do with the spider being broken. they wont be so awesome if PGI ever pull there fingers out of there *** and do something about it!

[aniviron]

Darramouss, on 01 October 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

I'm sorry for that response. I came off strong.

I'm not trying to troll, I just find it hard to believe that Spiders are topping the damage tables. If you guys, who have more experience, say that it is the Spider, then what do you suggest? If it's the speed that's the issue then surely ballistic splash damage would fix it? If a heavy enough shell strikes the ground then the legs of nearby mechs take a small hit? It would have to be AC/10s or AC/20s. AC/5s aren't heavy enough, I would think.

No, that would be terrible. The legs are the one part of the spider you can hit anyway, and every other light mech dies far too easily to legging already. Given that they are the least played class by far (about a third as much as heavies) we don't really need to make every light worse, they're already hard to play.

The problem is that there are gaps on the spider's chest where shots just don't do damage. PGI needs to get their **** together and fix the hitboxes for the spider already.

[akpavker]

aniviron, on 01 October 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:

No, that would be terrible. The legs are the one part of the spider you can hit anyway, and every other light mech dies far too easily to legging already. Given that they are the least played class by far (about a third as much as heavies) we don't really need to make every light worse, they're already hard to play.

The problem is that there are gaps on the spider's chest where shots just don't do damage. PGI needs to get their **** together and fix the hitboxes for the spider already.

now that i have thought about it a little, why would PGI fix spiders........

they have just released a champion spider and no one will buy them if they are fixed because when they are fixed they will likely be a **** mech. nubs only play them cause they are broken?

[aniviron]

akpavker, on 01 October 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

now that i have thought about it a little, why would PGI fix spiders........

they have just released a champion spider and no one will buy them if they are fixed because when they are fixed they will likely be a **** mech. nubs only play them cause they are broken?

PGI have made worse decisions; for example, the same patch that ghost heat came out, some of the trials that month were actually affected by it fairly negatively. I would not put it past them.

[Deathlike]

akpavker, on 01 October 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

now that i have thought about it a little, why would PGI fix spiders........

they have just released a champion spider and no one will buy them if they are fixed because when they are fixed they will likely be a **** mech. nubs only play them cause they are broken?

PGI The Spider knows how to troll us well and it shows...

The mythical 6MG Spider is watching you.

Edited by Deathlike, 01 October 2013 - 09:22 PM.

[Fuerchtegott]

Spider K just does 6 DPS without overheating, that's all the magic behind it's OPness, and the the chassis transports those 120m range dps with 150 km/h and jj to your back.

[aniviron]

Fuerchtegott, on 01 October 2013 - 09:32 PM, said:

Spider K just does 6 DPS without overheating, that's all the magic behind it's OPness, and the the chassis transports those 120m range dps with 150 km/h and jj to your back.

Why is everyone so waaaah about no-heat mgs? The gauss has no heat (or might as well not). Most ACs are highly heat efficient. Sure they weigh more, but have between half and seven times the range, and you don't have to constantly face your opponent to use them. If MGs were crazy OP, heavier mechs would be taking them constantly; spoiler alert, aside from the rare DD Jager, they don't.

[Circles End]

I think that Fuerchtegott was actually being snarky with his response.

[New Day]

Darramouss, on 01 October 2013 - 04:42 PM, said:

I've read a few older forums that talk about machine guns mainly being used to eat away at sections with no armour. That's obviously not the case now as I'm finding spiders armed only with MGs are chewing through full armour and ripping up the internals in seconds. Backing up to a wall to protect your back and try to gain some tactical position is rendered useless by their jump jets.

Surely I'm not the only person who's finding the Spider/MG to be a little OP? I can understand them doing mass damage to sections with no armour but surely the damage they do to healthy armour is too high/

Thoughts?

[Iacov]

Darramouss, on 01 October 2013 - 04:42 PM, said:

I've read a few older forums that talk about machine guns mainly being used to eat away at sections with no armour. That's obviously not the case now as I'm finding spiders armed only with MGs are chewing through full armour and ripping up the internals in seconds. Backing up to a wall to protect your back and try to gain some tactical position is rendered useless by their jump jets.

Surely I'm not the only person who's finding the Spider/MG to be a little OP? I can understand them doing mass damage to sections with no armour but surely the damage they do to healthy armour is too high/

Thoughts?

are you kidding me?

as soon as a weapon does damage it is overpowered?
every weapon that is used in 3+ hardpoints benefits from the "mass"...
that's why a 6mlas battlemaster will be fun

[Bad Andy]

agreed, hitboxes are the problem, machine guns are fine

[Aym]

Bhael Fire, on 01 October 2013 - 07:08 PM, said:

Settle down there, chief. I just find it hard to believe you are being serious about this issue. Sorry.

I find any mech that CAN take 3+ machine guns and still have the hardpoints for other weapons DOES take 3+ machine guns. Don't you think that's a problem? That was a problem with the Gauss when almost no one took an AC20 becuase the Gauss was simply a way better choice for the hardpoint. Jager DD's and Spiders are the only mechs right now that are really able to take advantage of this problem, but it doesn't mean there isn't a problem. I figure put MG's on the Magnum Opus so if you fire more than 2 you double the heat of anything else you're trying to fire.

Iacov, on 02 October 2013 - 02:11 AM, said:

are you kidding me?

as soon as a weapon does damage it is overpowered?
every weapon that is used in 3+ hardpoints benefits from the "mass"...
that's why a 6mlas battlemaster will be fun

Also this simply isn't the case because 6Mlas generate enough heat that they come with significant drawbacks. How many swaybacks do you really see? 6 Mlas Jager or 6 Mlas Quickdraw? Practically none, and the same goes for 6Mlas Stalkers. So no, I don't think this is the same issue.

[NextGame]

machine gun is perfect the way it is

[Murphy7]

The only problem with machine gun spam in my opinion was a bug related to sound that would cause crashes for some people. That seems to have been mostly quashed in the past few patches, or at least anecdotally.

[stjobe]

Aym, on 02 October 2013 - 03:29 AM, said:

I find any mech that CAN take 3+ machine guns and still have the hardpoints for other weapons DOES take 3+ machine guns. Don't you think that's a problem?

No. Because you're wrong.

Let's have a look at who we're talking about here:
SDR-5K - yes, this one will have 4 MGs. It's also light and needs the MG to be viable to be at all useful.
CDA-3C - it's {Scrap} with or without MGs, and you'll not see many toting MGs
HBK-4G - won't sacrifice its AC/20 for a third MG.
DGN-5N - may use 3 MGs, but if it does, it's {Scrap}. There's much better loadouts.
JM6-DD - hexa-MG troll build, and what's scaring everyone silly about MGs.
JM6-S - won't mount 4 MGs, and if it does, easy prey.
CTF-4X - won't mount 4 MGs, and if it does, easy prey.
ILYA - you're kidding, right? Won't be caught dead with MGs.
VTR-9B - won't give up its larger ballistics for a third MG.

So in the end, it's lights again that need MGs to be a viable weapon; the heavier 'mechs won't mount them since they have better alternatives.

[Cycleboy]

stjobe, on 02 October 2013 - 05:28 AM, said:

No. Because you're wrong.

Let's have a look at who we're talking about here:
SDR-5K - yes, this one will have 4 MGs. It's also light and needs the MG to be viable to be at all useful.
CDA-3C - it's {Scrap} with or without MGs, and you'll not see many toting MGs
HBK-4G - won't sacrifice its AC/20 for a third MG.
DGN-5N - may use 3 MGs, but if it does, it's {Scrap}. There's much better loadouts.
JM6-DD - hexa-MG troll build, and what's scaring everyone silly about MGs.
JM6-S - won't mount 4 MGs, and if it does, easy prey.
CTF-4X - won't mount 4 MGs, and if it does, easy prey.
ILYA - you're kidding, right? Won't be caught dead with MGs.
VTR-9B - won't give up its larger ballistics for a third MG.

So in the end, it's lights again that need MGs to be a viable weapon; the heavier 'mechs won't mount them since they have better alternatives.

I was doing OK with my ILYA with MGs, 2 LL in torsos, and an ER PPC in the arm. Stand off punch, then when those lights see you, a couple hits then wall of lead.

[Xyroc]

Darramouss, on 01 October 2013 - 06:43 PM, said:

I understand that getting a game changed can be hard but if the change is not for the best then the game suffers. How can Spiders doing more damage than any other mech on the map be good for the game?

spiders dont do more damage than any other mech unless everyone just decides hey dont shoot that spider as it kills everyone in their backs.

Question have you actually piloted a spider? You will find out not op at all. Actually you are just constantly running for your life while getting a few shots in.

Edited by Beliall, 02 October 2013 - 05:53 AM.

[Lostdragon]

If the SDR-5K had 2 energy hardpoints in the arms instead of ballistics you would be griping about being killed by 5 SL or SPL Spiders. Machine guns are put on the mech because they are what fits, not because they are OP. If I could replace them with energy weapons I would take the MGs off my 5K in a heartbeat.

Doing high damage with MGs in a SDR is actually pretty tough. You have to be good at holding them on target and maintain a high time on target. You have to do this while manouevering like a mad man at very close range to try to throw off the enemy's aim. While I acknowledge the Spider may have some issues, they are not the unstoppable killing machines people make them out to be and I can tell you from many, many personal experiences that a single well aimed AC20 round can easily ruin your machine gun rampage before it even gets started.

When you are fighting people who are good shots all light mechs feel very fragile. If you are in a heavy or assault and an MG Spider kills you 1v1 then you simply got beaten by a better pilot.

Edited by Lostdragon, 02 October 2013 - 05:58 AM.

[Aym]

stjobe, on 02 October 2013 - 05:28 AM, said:

No. Because you're wrong.

Let's have a look at who we're talking about here:
SDR-5K - yes, this one will have 4 MGs. It's also light and needs the MG to be viable to be at all useful.
CDA-3C - it's {Scrap} with or without MGs, and you'll not see many toting MGs
HBK-4G - won't sacrifice its AC/20 for a third MG.
DGN-5N - may use 3 MGs, but if it does, it's {Scrap}. There's much better loadouts.
JM6-DD - hexa-MG troll build, and what's scaring everyone silly about MGs.
JM6-S - won't mount 4 MGs, and if it does, easy prey.
CTF-4X - won't mount 4 MGs, and if it does, easy prey.
ILYA - you're kidding, right? Won't be caught dead with MGs.
VTR-9B - won't give up its larger ballistics for a third MG.

So in the end, it's lights again that need MGs to be a viable weapon; the heavier 'mechs won't mount them since they have better alternatives.

Don't know if you intentionally ignored my point about still having the hardpoints to effectively mount other weapons or not... But again, it's the spider and the DD that illustrate the problem, although I used to enjoy my dragon with 2 ER PPC's and MG's, although that was with the much shorter range MG's.