11 replies to this topic

[culverin]

I'm a light pilot, and I've played many, many matches now in my jumping jenner.
But I'm still a bit confused. Thrust behavior seems a bit inconsistent?


1. Jump jet thrust based on terrain.
Let's say I'm coming down off of a cliff, sometimes it seems that if I jump jet while still having ground under my feet, I go upwards.
But if I'm just a 1/2 second late an the ground is gone, I will end up falling and even if I burn off the entire tank, I don't get any vertical thrust.


2. Jump jet thrust based on remaining fuel
Is it just me or does fuel in the tank have something to do with my vertical acceleration?
It seems like the lower I am in the tank, the less vertical acceleration I get from my jump jets.


Am I going a little crazy here guys?
Or does anybody else notice this?

[Wispsy]

What you are noticing is a mechanic they implemented when they nerfed jumpjets. Now no matter how many jumpjets you have, you gain a slight boost of lift when you initially lift off of the ground. This only happens if you are on the ground. If you use jumpjets whilst in the air they will just give normal lift, which is terrible, not enough to stop you if you are falling even a tiny bit. The same applies with the directional thrust afaik. What this does mean though is that now you can spam your spacebar (as in press it repeatedly) and climb mountains whilst losing almost no jumpjet fuel. The amount of fuel does not matter, just whether you are on the ground when using it. This is why you can get away with a single jumpjet for maneuverability as it boosts you up quite quickly in the start, same as if you had 8.

[culverin]

Oh.

Nerfing directional control makes sense I guess if they gave too much control.
But did they say why nerfed the physics?

[Wispsy]

culverin, on 02 October 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

Oh.

Nerfing directional control makes sense I guess if they gave too much control.
But did they say why nerfed the physics?

They were apparently too strong. Allowing much maneuverability.

[Heat Seeking Civet]

Jump Jets are just horribly, horribly broken. They were perfect, then PGI "nerfed" them for the release of the 12 JJ spider. Now a 12 JJ spider can only jump as far as a medium mech should be able to, and literally any mech that isn't the 12 jj spider is just messed up. You can't control or aim it at all unless you take off from flat ground.

[Denolven]

It's rather simple:
While falling, JJ can only reduce your falling speed.
While on solid ground, JJ increase your lifting speed.

Some very light mechs can turn the falling into a slight lift if they have enough JJ (Spider for example).

[Rushin Roulette]

Yup. The best way to use the JJs is to (Based on light mech Jumping with 2 or more JJs);

• jump over terrain (such as a canyon in "Canyon Network") - Start jumping before you reach the drop-off, boost to about the middle of the canyon and then just boost to keep up your altitude enough to reach the other end. If possible light the JJs just before you touch down to minimise the damage to your legs.
  
• Jump up hills - Just simply use them. Here it is best to use the JJs just before you slow down while already running up.
  
• Jump onto buildings/up sheer cliffs - Imagine a 45° line from your point to the top of the obstacle and launch the JJs about 20 meters before this line would touch the top of what you want to jump up on. If you find you are climbing too high, then tap the JJs so that you "glide" to the point you want to reach.
  
• Reducing fall damage - To do this, you start the JJs only after you have started dropping. Your aim is to slow down enough, that you will touch the ground with a minimum of drop speed. If its a longer drop, then you ideally want to run out of JJ fuel just before you touch down.
  
• Jump turning - The most important part of JJs for a light pilot. Use this to drastically decrease the turning radius of your mech so that you can either escape behind cover quicker or to change directions in the circle of death. To do this you tap the JJs slightly while turning (you can tap more then once to make the turn even tighter. a 180° turn shouldnt be a problem with this method.

After its all down to practice. Btw, dont forget that every time you land from using the Jumpjets (including JJ turns) you will slow down, so never use this in a predictable pattern or timing, else your opponents can predict where you will land and have an easier time hitting you.

EDIT: Fixed some typos and added to the Fall damage reduction point.

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 05 October 2013 - 02:06 AM.

[Flyto]

culverin, on 02 October 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

Nerfing directional control makes sense I guess if they gave too much control.
But did they say why nerfed the physics?

IIRC, with the old phyics there were a lot of complaints about how long it took to take off. So they reduced the power of the jets (which is why it's very hard to hover, or to stop falling) and reduced the amount of fuel, and added an extra boost on takeoff. I like to think of it as pushing off with your legs

Edited by Flyto, 04 October 2013 - 04:21 AM.

[scJazz]

Flyto, on 04 October 2013 - 04:21 AM, said:

think of it as pushing off with your legs

Probably the best line of the thread although lots of really good stuff already exists.

They are called "Jump Jets" not "Fly Around Jets"!

[Krivvan]

ForestGnome, on 02 October 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

Jump Jets are just horribly, horribly broken. They were perfect, then PGI "nerfed" them for the release of the 12 JJ spider. Now a 12 JJ spider can only jump as far as a medium mech should be able to, and literally any mech that isn't the 12 jj spider is just messed up. You can't control or aim it at all unless you take off from flat ground.

Judging by how many people rely on and make good use of jump jets right now (especially in Jenners), I wouldn't call them anywhere close to broken.

[Sadistic Savior]

culverin, on 02 October 2013 - 08:44 AM, said:

I'm a light pilot, and I've played many, many matches now in my jumping jenner.
But I'm still a bit confused. Thrust behavior seems a bit inconsistent?


1. Jump jet thrust based on terrain.
Let's say I'm coming down off of a cliff, sometimes it seems that if I jump jet while still having ground under my feet, I go upwards.
But if I'm just a 1/2 second late an the ground is gone, I will end up falling and even if I burn off the entire tank, I don't get any vertical thrust.

Jumpjets will follow your current motion, down to the second. If you are already falling, you will continue to fall. At best, they will cushion your fall. If you start falling a split second before jumping, you will still fall.

To go up you need to be standing still. To go forward, you will need forward momentum as well. The last patch allows you to go slightly forward now even if you started without momentum.

Quote

2. Jump jet thrust based on remaining fuel

No, it is not. The thrust is the same no matter how much fuel you have. But the thrust stops when the fuel is gone. If you stop thrusting and lose your upward momemtum, you will start falling again, even if you start thrust again. It will just reduce your fall speed.

There is a slight addition when you first jump I think, but to me it looks like a "push" from the legs...not extra thrust from the jets.

I agree it is not very intuitive. But Jump Jets were never intended to simulate flight.

Edited by Sadistic Savior, 04 October 2013 - 06:25 AM.

[Ebonkosh]

The people crying about JJ being nerfed to hard need to aslo add that if you are in teh air and get hit by a AC20 you should get knocked over and fall to the ground if you want to be realistic. Also they need to bring back light mechs falling over from heavy or bigger mechs. Even a light getting hit by a AC20 or somethign like it should have a fall roll done. But this is not reality.



Ebonkosh