575 replies to this topic

[Imperius]

Kunae, on 03 October 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

Nothing "self-proclaimed" about it. There are 5 or 6 light pilots posting in this thread, who have placed in the top 15 during PGI's tournaments, in lights.

Beta tournaments... Also it's not like it's was some big official MLG tournament. Let alone since not everyone has access to said tournaments they don't even truly justify the so called best.

EDIT: if I remember it just came down to who played the most... It wasn't even a win/lose type of tournament. Win/loss is skill. 12/12 community tournaments aren't even fair or accurate either. Since they now just finally got HSR working decently.

Edited by Imperius, 03 October 2013 - 02:26 PM.

[Kunae]

DeaconW, on 03 October 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

Given equally skilled pilots and appropriate weapon loadouts? Yes, on average, the heavier mech should win more often with the win rate going up as the weight (and really armor and weapon capability) difference goes up. While there will always be outliers (and should be....top pilots are top pilots and bad pilots are bad pilots, mismatched loadouts will also cause outliers), the general case, all things being equal, should be that the larger mech has the 1 v 1 advantage. This has been a combat principle in warfare for a long time. Lights should win in combat by surprise, wits, and maneuver...not brawling. Lights should get there major rewards for spotting, tagging, capping, etc, not damage. i.e. role warfare.

We already agreed to disagree on that aspect, so I'm not going to get into it again, with you. As far as my statement, I do apologize for over-generalizing your position on this matter.

DeaconW, on 03 October 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

OK, I'll explain: You said that SSRM's are OP and limiting light pilots yet there are "5 or 6" of the top players in MWO here who are in that position piloting lights. Ergo, if SSRM's were OP, their success would be impossible. Since they succeeded, it disproves your premise.

That wasn't what I said at all.

Streaks are overpowered vs light mechs. They are primarily over-powered because they are auto-hit weapons, and secondarily by doing too much damage. This is true, in light vs light fights as well as heavier mechs vs lights.

Lights can carry SSRMs too, and most of the time the light that brings the most streaks to a fight wins.

[PEEFsmash]

How easy is it to attain streak lock?

This easy (from last night): http://www.twitch.tv...smash/c/3028298

Edited by PEEFsmash, 03 October 2013 - 02:18 PM.

[Imperius]

TheFlyingScotsman, on 03 October 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

The problem is not not NOT the damage they deal. The problem is that they require no aim, hold lock beyond their lock deredation and have a turn radious the size of a dime. If they are in range and los, they never miss, even if the firer's aim is way off and has already lost lock.

It is true that certain mechs don't function correctly RE ssrms (such as the BJ magnetic CT), but the main problem is how easily they hit. They need to have a greatly reduced turn rate, so that you still have to aim them and keep the tubes facing the enemy, or they will miss.

SSRM itting should be easier, yes, but not perfect and ridiculously angled.

Nerf the turn rate and fix the broken hitboxes.

Since they have a short range to lock on in I'm not seeing how this is an issue? L2P? Would you run up on a shotgun SRM atlas? No you say? Stay away from the ssrm boat too... Again L2P

[Kunae]

Imperius, on 03 October 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

I don't think I'm the one that should kill everything. Just you light pilots don't seem to know your roles.

Guerrilla warfare, scouting, harassing, and wounded target cherry picking. LIGHTS ARE NOT BRAWLERS AND SHOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO BRAWL.

So you are of the DeaconW philosophical school.

This is your opinion, which is not shared by me, other people in this thread, nor the developers of MWO. While I respect your right to hold that opinion, it is not how this game has been built.

Edited by Kunae, 03 October 2013 - 02:23 PM.

[DocBach]

PEEFsmash, on 03 October 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

How easy is it to attain streak lock?

This easy (from last night): http://www.twitch.tv...smash/c/3028298

I was thinking lock on time should be affected by the amount of launchers in a group; Like, each launcher has to lock individually.

[Kunae]

DocBach, on 03 October 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

I was thinking lock on time should be affected by the amount of launchers in a group; Like, each launcher has to lock individually.

Technically, if you would base it off canon, each tube would have to gain a lock before each launcher could fire.

[Imperius]

Kunae, on 03 October 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

So you are of the DeaconW philosophical school.

This is your opinion, which is not shared by me, other people in this thread, nor the developers of MWO. While I respect your right to hold that opinion, it is not how this game has been built.

Wrong again... http://mwomercs.com/...-3-role-warfare

Defense/Assault
The defense and assault roles are very similar in their core gameplay. The only difference between the two is how they want to balance their skills and modules. There are numerous configurations that will prove to be beneficial to either role being played.

Defense may want to skew their attributes to heavier armor and friendly assistance modules, while the assault may want to skew their attributes to targeting and assistance modules. Both roles need to be combat effective in both long and short range abilities.

Suggested BattleMech Class: Medium/Heavy/Assault
Suggested Modules: (Defense) Assistance and Detection enhancements, (Assault) Assistance and Targeting enhancements
Suggested Pilot Skills: (Defense) Assistance of friendly units and Detection/Protection skills, (Assault) Enhanced Targeting and Assistance of friendly units

Don't see light listed there does anyone else? Nope good! Checkmate!

Edited by Imperius, 03 October 2013 - 02:37 PM.

[DeaconW]

PEEFsmash, on 03 October 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

The Light Leaderboards compare each mech class to other mechs in its class. So we are top performers among light players, and it is a given that we are all disadvantaged in that way. So, given these disadvantages, we performed better than others. That's all it says.

And how high was your score compared to the Heavies and Assaults? How high were you overall? IIRC, the point spread wasn't that significant.

The proof is more with my own eyes...I regularly see lights getting top score in matches...pilots like you and some others here, I get. I've spectated you. I have no doubt you would own me in whatever mech I chose to drive. But IMO there is something wrong with the game mechanic when an average light pilot can apparently routinely get similar damage to an average assault pilot.

[Kunae]

Imperius, on 03 October 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

Wrong again... http://mwomercs.com/...-3-role-warfare

Defense/Assault
The defense and assault roles are very similar in their core gameplay. The only difference between the two is how they want to balance their skills and modules. There are numerous configurations that will prove to be beneficial to either role being played.

Defense may want to skew their attributes to heavier armor and friendly assistance modules, while the assault may want to skew their attributes to targeting and assistance modules. Both roles need to be combat effective in both long and short range abilities.

Suggested BattleMech Class: Medium/Heavy/Assault
Suggested Modules: (Defense) Assistance and Detection enhancements, (Assault) Assistance and Targeting enhancements
Suggested Pilot Skills: (Defense) Assistance of friendly units and Detection/Protection skills, (Assault) Enhanced Targeting and Assistance of friendly units

Don't see light listed there does anyone else? Nope good! Checkmate!

Don't see any relevance to your post, either. It's about Defense/Assault, as it says in the title.

DeaconW, on 03 October 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

And how high was your score compared to the Heavies and Assaults? How high were you overall? IIRC, the point spread wasn't that significant.

The proof is more with my own eyes...I regularly see lights getting top score in matches...pilots like you and some others here, I get. I've spectated you. I have no doubt you would own me in whatever mech I chose to drive. But IMO there is something wrong with the game mechanic when an average light pilot can apparently routinely get similar damage to an average assault pilot.

You're not talking about average light pilots though. Most "average" light pilots do ~90-250 damage in a match.

DocBach, on 03 October 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

I was thinking lock on time should be affected by the amount of launchers in a group; Like, each launcher has to lock individually.

Also, I don't think PGI would ever put such a mechanic in-place. It would require far too much work.

[Imperius]

Kunae, on 03 October 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

Don't see any relevance to your post, either. It's about Defense/Assault, as it says in the title.


You're not talking about average light pilots though. Most "average" light pilots do ~90-250 damage in a match.


Also, I don't think PGI would ever put such a mechanic in-place. It would require far too much work.

Ok I'll hold you hand

Scouting – Gathering information as a reconnaissance/stealth unit that gets relayed back to the rest of the friendly force.
Defense – The defender holds the ground gained by the offensive forces and protects those in need.
Assault – The assault role is for the tactical forward units whose primary role is to seek and destroy.
Command – The command role is split into two different levels, lance and company. Lance command falls to those in charge of up to 3 other players and assist in coordinated attacks on key targets. The company commander utilizes the 2 other lance commanders and all information being relayed back to him to make global calls on the battlefield.

Look at the word SCOUT ready to have your mind blown!

Scouts
Scouts are the main source of information on the battlefield. It is their utilization of Information Warfare that is the key to the success of a team. Scouts need to get to the front lines as soon as possible in order to gather information as fast as possible. They should utilize fast moving BattleMech which allow them to do so and at the same time allow them the opportunity to escape should the need arise. Advanced scout players will need to use scout Modules to enhance their abilities to detect enemies and relay information.

Suggested BattleMech Class: Light/Medium
Suggested Modules: Radar and Detection enhancements
Suggested Pilot Skills: Scout class skills

Don't see brawling (assault) listed hmm

If you still don't understand after that I suggest you get a scooby-doo lunch box, and apply for a disability sticker.

[Wispsy]

DeaconW, on 03 October 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

And how high was your score compared to the Heavies and Assaults? How high were you overall? IIRC, the point spread wasn't that significant.

The proof is more with my own eyes...I regularly see lights getting top score in matches...pilots like you and some others here, I get. I've spectated you. I have no doubt you would own me in whatever mech I chose to drive. But IMO there is something wrong with the game mechanic when an average light pilot can apparently routinely get similar damage to an average assault pilot.

I think I was only playing when 1 or 2 of those tournaments were on but if I remember lights scores were significantly lower.

Also did you miss the post where I pointed out the massive difference in performance I see when in a light (which I have played 10x more on and know better then anything) compared to in heavies/assaults. It is really really difficult to explain the difference. It is just so much easier in an assaults/heavies. Crazily so. I mean you can 1shot a light, reliably. Why the need for autohit weapons with zero chance of avoiding. Now games are 12v12 it makes SSRMs even more dangerous. Killing a single SSRM mech might be doable, but the unavoidable damage you sustain leaves you unable to contribute at all to the rest of the fight no matter how well you played it. Sure, AVOID THEM, people say...RUN FROM EVERY MECH WITH SSRMS YOU SHOULD NOT BE FIGHTING THEM STUPID LIGHT GETTING ABOVE YOURSELF...yeah but what happens when the majority of the team has a couple just on there because why would you use SRMs over SSRMs right now? All of a sudden...there is no avoiding it...it is basically saying "POWER DOWN IN A CORNER AND WAIT FOR GAME TO END, YOUR OWN FAULT FOR PICKING THE ONE CLASS WITH A LIGHT WEIGHT HARD COUNTER"...

does balance mean nothing to you people Assaults are not the only mech in the game you know and all should have a chance to make a significant contribution towards a win other then "they are over there, that big blob of mechs you can all see, kk have fun guys powering down now".

[Kunae]

Imperius, on 03 October 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

Ok I'll hold you hand

Scouting – Gathering information as a reconnaissance/stealth unit that gets relayed back to the rest of the friendly force.
Defense – The defender holds the ground gained by the offensive forces and protects those in need.
Assault – The assault role is for the tactical forward units whose primary role is to seek and destroy.
Command – The command role is split into two different levels, lance and company. Lance command falls to those in charge of up to 3 other players and assist in coordinated attacks on key targets. The company commander utilizes the 2 other lance commanders and all information being relayed back to him to make global calls on the battlefield.

Look at the word SCOUT ready to have your mind blown!

Scouts
Scouts are the main source of information on the battlefield. It is their utilization of Information Warfare that is the key to the success of a team. Scouts need to get to the front lines as soon as possible in order to gather information as fast as possible. They should utilize fast moving BattleMech which allow them to do so and at the same time allow them the opportunity to escape should the need arise. Advanced scout players will need to use scout Modules to enhance their abilities to detect enemies and relay information.

Suggested BattleMech Class: Light/Medium
Suggested Modules: Radar and Detection enhancements
Suggested Pilot Skills: Scout class skills

Don't see brawling (assault) listed hmm

If you still don't understand after that I suggest you get a scooby-doo lunch box, and apply for a disability sticker.

You do realize that the "role-warfare" as described there, has never been in existence in MWO?

You do remember that Jenners were denied ECM on the justification that they were skirmishers, not scouts?(Btw, skirmisher = brawler, but in a mobile sense.)

Have you not played this game for the last year, and noticed reality, not colored by your wishes and dreams?

[NocturnalBeast]

Kunae, on 03 October 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

Technically, if you would base it off canon, each tube would have to gain a lock before each launcher could fire.

Ah, but in TT, all the weapons you are firing in your firing phase are "technically" being fired simultaneously, which means that the launchers should be able to lock simultaneously. This is 3050, why would weapons be designed to be less than optimal? I run my streak cat and I routinely run into light pilots who can run out of range, or who pair up with an ecm light who provides cover just outside of my BAP range.

[Novakaine]

I take immense pleasure in taking down spiders with my K-18.
Love it.

[PEEFsmash]

Wispsy, on 03 October 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

does balance mean nothing to you people Assaults are not the only mech in the game you know and all should have a chance to make a significant contribution towards a win other then "they are over there, that big blob of mechs you can all see, kk have fun guys powering down now".

Yes. "Scouting" on most maps = what Wispsy said. Just see a blob that your team will see 15 seconds later, then hope that your bigs carry you.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 03 October 2013 - 03:10 PM.

[Asakara]

Kunae, on 03 October 2013 - 02:58 PM, said:

You do realize that the "role-warfare" as described there, has never been in existence in MWO?

You do remember that Jenners were denied ECM on the justification that they were skirmishers, not scouts?(Btw, skirmisher = brawler, but in a mobile sense.)

Have you not played this game for the last year, and noticed reality, not colored by your wishes and dreams?

To be fair I thought PGI decided not to add ECM to the Jenner-D (after saying they would) due to tons of people on the forums complaining in a single afternoon.

In their official reason they did not mention any role to my knowledge:

http://mwomercs.com/...64#entry1507364

David Bradley said:

After some discussion within the dev team, we have decided to remove the ECM capability from the Jenner JR7-D. The first post will be edited to reflect this.

We would also like to remind people that the ECM is not all powerful. The rock to its scissors is the TAG laser. If you use it to hit anyone cloaked by an ECM, you and your team will be able to target them. Like any new addition to the game, this just requires a shift in thinking how to equip your Mech and/or team.

[PEEFsmash]

Asakara, on 03 October 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

To be fair I thought PGI decided not to add ECM to the Jenner-D (after saying they would) due to tons of people on the forums complaining in a single afternoon.

In their official reason they did not mention any role to my knowledge:

http://mwomercs.com/...64#entry1507364

I almost got really excited and thought I could get rid of my BAP for a TAG, until I realized....4 laser HPs...=[

[Kunae]

Asakara, on 03 October 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

To be fair I thought PGI decided not to add ECM to the Jenner-D (after saying they would) due to tons of people on the forums complaining in a single afternoon.

In their official reason they did not mention any role to my knowledge:

http://mwomercs.com/...64#entry1507364

It was said by one of the devs, somewhere, iirc.

The angst, generated by them removing knockdowns, bore it's second fruit there. The first was the streak-buff in November.

The angst continues to be fruitful, to this day.

[Archtype]

well I do not strictly agree with the OP, there is a certain exploit that makes streaks even more exemplary of easy mode. This is an exploit that the devs have acknowledged and not fixed in months. Spider pilots should be grateful their hitboxes are borked, maybe one day they will have a day of reconin.

streaks should be brought back down to 2.0 and perhaps only be guranteed to hit 75% of the time. 4 ssrm2 weigh 6 tons, like 2 2srm6's though the likely 90% accuracy with SRMS is low to none, compared to the increased damge hit rate of srms, this really should be looked at it some way.

Taking them out of the game though seems like the incorrect move

Edited by Archtype, 03 October 2013 - 03:18 PM.