575 replies to this topic

[Gaan Cathal]

Cybermech, on 04 October 2013 - 03:00 AM, said:

So I started to play the kintaro yesterday and today.
I'm going to stop now.
Its not OP in anyway what so ever.
You can get high enough damage out of it however that damage is spread all over the place.
Even stealing kills is a hard enough thing to do.

Define OP. Is the build OP? No. Is the weapon OP? Yes. How can this be, you ask? Because the SSRM2 should be approximately as valuable as an ASRM2. Which is a total junk weapon. It shouldn't be comparable in effectiveness to an ASRM6 because the latter weighs almost three times as much. The fact that loading out on SSRM2s doesn't make you an unholy death god doesn't actually mean the weapon is fine. If Small Lasers were as good as Medium Lasers they'd not be super-godly-epic weapons, but they'd be OP because they weigh half a ton, and are as effective as a one ton weapon (this, albeit in reverse, is why MPLs are *****, they're decent weapons, but not two tons decent compared with a one ton ML).

Blacksoul1987, on 04 October 2013 - 05:27 AM, said:

I do agree that it is true that ssrm2's are strong against lights but regular srm's are especially garbage against lights cause their spreads are balanced against the chassis that are much larger.

TBH it's more to do with the shonky hit detection on SRMs, any time there's a hit-dec issue faster, smaller, mechs will invariably benefit more. When working properly, SRMs will brutalise Lights.

DemonRaziel, on 04 October 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

Just finished a game, with 6 Assaults, 5 Heavies and me in a Light 'Mech. Other side: 8 Assaults, 4 Heavies. Not a rare occurrence, either, that I'm the only Light, or maybe one of 2-3 Medium+Lights in the whole game. How is this game (or the IS by extension) ruled by Lights?

Because the person you're quoting is a ******** fool who thinks that there's actually distinct groupings of pilot by weight class. Because having four Light mechs in my mechbay at the moment means that Stalker next to them is clearly not mine, and I almost never play it. Guv.

He does this in every thread about Lights. Apparently we "Light Mech Pilots" are a conspiracy circle on the masonic scale.

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 04 October 2013 - 05:58 AM.

[Imperius]

stjobe, on 04 October 2013 - 05:51 AM, said:

I think you spelled "heavies" wrong there - lights are the least played weight class, even less played than mediums. Most people play heavies and assaults, and six lights on the other team is a statistical fluke, nothing you have to "deal with game after game".

More often than not, I'm the only light on both teams.

I'd rather see PGI's numbers not a couple of randoms using excel. You'll never get the real numbers due to too many factors like ELO and times of the day.

Edited by Imperius, 04 October 2013 - 06:00 AM.

[Ngamok]

Novakaine, on 03 October 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

I take immense pleasure in taking down spiders with my K-18.
Love it.

I would continue if I were you as well because right now, with that video that shows the dead zone of the spider hitbox, they deserve to die.

[stjobe]

Imperius, on 04 October 2013 - 05:59 AM, said:

I'd rather see PGI's numbers not a couple of randoms using excel. You'll never get the real numbers due to too many factors like ELO and times of the day.

There's been other such threads; the largest of them had lights at 11.7%.

In fact, every such thread I've seen on these boards have had lights as the least played weight class.

It may not be the "real numbers", but it's a very clear trend, so if you have numbers showing otherwise - put up or shut up.

Edited by stjobe, 04 October 2013 - 06:12 AM.

[Imperius]

Let me fudge up and excel sheet for ya give me an hour.

[Snowcrow]

As someone who pilots both kintaros and jenners, I have to say that I don't find it op at all.
In my jenner I just jump over a hill and run away when I see a 5ssrm kintaro. I've never been killed by a kintaro in my jenners. And I use them a lot.
In my kintaro I murder lights who are stupid enough to engage me one on one.

the 5 ssrm build is great against light pilots who are stupid enough not to run away and ok against mediums. And terrible against heavies and assaults.

Edited by Snowcrow, 04 October 2013 - 06:22 AM.

[Krivvan]

stjobe, on 04 October 2013 - 06:10 AM, said:

There's been other such threads; the largest of them had lights at 11.7%.

In fact, every such thread I've seen on these boards have had lights as the least played weight class.

It may not be the "real numbers", but it's a very clear trend, so if you have numbers showing otherwise - put up or shut up.

How much of that is lights apparently being considered subpar and how much of that is lights having the highest skill floor?

Edited by Krivvan, 04 October 2013 - 06:42 AM.

[stjobe]

Krivvan, on 04 October 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

How much of that is lights being subpar and how much of that is lights having the highest skill floor?

I'm not saying it's either one; I'm just saying that lights are the least played weight class.

Although if you're asking for my opinion, it's more the latter. Even I can do okay-ish in a heavy or assault and I'm terrible at them, and the heavier lights like the Jenner isn't really subpar at all.

[dario03]

stjobe, on 04 October 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

I'm not saying it's either one; I'm just saying that lights are the least played weight class.

Although if you're asking for my opinion, it's more the latter. Even I can do okay-ish in a heavy or assault and I'm terrible at them, and the heavier lights like the Jenner isn't really subpar at all.

I agree with myself here. But I will add that mediums are often times not easy either. And I think a lot of people simply gravitate to larger mechs because of the whole bigger is better assumptions.

Edited by dario03, 04 October 2013 - 06:40 AM.

[Ngamok]

stjobe, on 04 October 2013 - 05:51 AM, said:

I think you spelled "heavies" wrong there - lights are the least played weight class, even less played than mediums. Most people play heavies and assaults, and six lights on the other team is a statistical fluke, nothing you have to "deal with game after game".

More often than not, I'm the only light on both teams.

I see lights everywhere on the other hand. Especially in groups. Last night in Tourmaline, 2 Spider, 1 Raven, 1 Jenner get those 4 guys circling at 150 KPH, yes Streaks on a mech should be hitting them to scare them off otherwise, they just keep circling. And you take hits from your teammates trying to hit them. Sorry, streaks are fine. They are a deterrant for these tactics.

[Krivvan]

stjobe, on 04 October 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

and the heavier lights like the Jenner isn't really subpar at all.

Wasn't saying they were, just saying that as an explanation that I didn't personally believe.

[Imperius]

Krivvan, on 04 October 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

How much of that is lights being subpar and how much of that is lights having the highest skill floor?

Honestly if you have the right mindset and play a light like a jackel. Then they are quite easy to use and and pick off kills with. If you roll the dice and hope you vs assaults that can't aim and get smashed grats you weren't playing it right in the first place.

I can't wait till they add the Hackman/Owens with "cloak" once cloak is added to the game it will be a big change for the game huge!

I'll have you know I used to only play lights when I played MechAssault I was a flag runner/ hunter. I know how to play a light because everything in the game was lock on and lights had the same health then as they do in this game.

Again lights aren't the minority.
SSRM's are balanced
/END THREAD

Edited by Imperius, 04 October 2013 - 06:44 AM.

[Krivvan]

Ngamok, on 04 October 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

I see lights everywhere on the other hand. Especially in groups. Last night in Tourmaline, 2 Spider, 1 Raven, 1 Jenner get those 4 guys circling at 150 KPH, yes Streaks on a mech should be hitting them to scare them off otherwise, they just keep circling. And you take hits from your teammates trying to hit them. Sorry, streaks are fine. They are a deterrant for these tactics.

Good lights don't "just circle".

Imperius, on 04 October 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

Honestly if you have the right mindset and play a light like a jackel. Then they are quite easy to use and and pick of kills with. If you roll the dice and hope you vs assaults that can't aim and get smashed grats you weren't playing it right in the first place.

I exclusively play lights as well. I'm not saying they're subpar.

[Ngamok]

Krivvan, on 04 October 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

Good lights don't "just circle".

They didn't just circle the entire match, they do do it though. Imagine if there was a Streak Boat there. Yea, would they keep doing it? No. I do agree with others that the damage be reduced to 2.0 because we will have problems in the future. Might as well address it now.

[Cybermech]

well wouldn't it make sense to have streaks since its only 2's a bit more powerful.
so game play and players can already have a mindset on how they operate before 4's and 6's?

cause they are not that good at all, if used as prime weapon they are very weak.

as a jenner pilot I kind of laugh at streaks and fear ac20's...

[Gaan Cathal]

Ngamok, on 04 October 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

They didn't just circle the entire match, they do do it though. Imagine if there was a Streak Boat there. Yea, would they keep doing it? No.

If there's an ECM in the wolfpack? Yes. Circle at 260m (or at 270< and duck in to fire). He can only head towards one of you and they just need to keep the distance. Staying outside of 150m isn't that difficult in a Light, even against a fast Medium. The problem is opening up a 150m gap initially if they get the drop on you.

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 04 October 2013 - 06:47 AM.

[-Natural Selection-]

Measures taken to thin the herd, our job is done here.

[Kaijin]

Gaan Cathal, on 04 October 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

Because the person you're quoting is a ******** fool who thinks that there's actually distinct groupings of pilot by weight class. Because having four Light mechs in my mechbay at the moment means that Stalker next to them is clearly not mine, and I almost never play it. Guv.

He does this in every thread about Lights. Apparently we "Light Mech Pilots" are a conspiracy circle on the masonic scale.

You see the signature? I drive lights too. I just don't share the OP's POV that lights should have free reign over the game.

[Deathlike]

I think people don't think Streaks are a problem need to strongly look at the following:

SRMs - It's designed for hitting anything that gets in its way, but with the state of HSR, it's terribad. It's worse that if you don't invest in Artemis, the pattern is more than terribad. If it works the way it should, it would be the most effective vs bigger mechs, with the occasional light mech that SHOULD be scared away from an ASRM cluster (like the classic Cent-A). Lights have the speed to get away and avoid damage, but should be able to get crushed if trying to closely brawl vs SRMs.

SSRM - Although obviously optimal vs lights due to speed and trajectory, it deals MORE damage than the regular SRM (which as we know is borked in some form) per missile. It already has the additional advantage of adding Artemis to speed up the locks... which technically shouldn't be allowed AND PGI won't address it AFAIK. The spread in the damage is good, since it cannot be solely used for punishing mechs (like back in the early open beta days), but the mechs that suffer most are lights due to their naturally low armor. You can only spread guaranteed damage only so much before a leg or side torso gets removed. The only natural defense is terrain, but that isn't something you can always rely on due to the speed of getting a lock where only ECM lights have a natural advantage (which, isn't necessarily a bad problem, but there are other bad ECM mechanics that exist).

If Lights (particularly those w/o ECM) had the same advantage as SRMs where their speed and evasion would be able to reduce the damage of Streaks, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Streaks having 100% guaranteed hits (when there is no terrain blocking) is not a comparable compromise to assaults have the armor to soak up the damage. If Streaks hit light mechs 50% of the time (especially when scaled to SSRM4 and SSRM6s), as long as skill is a factor, then it would be more than appropriate.

Edited by Deathlike, 04 October 2013 - 07:23 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Deathlike, I just confirmed that SSRMs do more damage than a SRM2... Haven't paid much attention to the equipment I don't use.

So either an SSRM should be cut back to 2 per missile or SRMs need to be buffed to 2.5 per. I personally would prefer the buff (obviously cause I don't use Streaks). But all Short range missiles should do the same amount of damage per missile regardless.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 04 October 2013 - 07:42 AM.