30 replies to this topic

[Thad Jantzi]

[Trynn]

Well said Thad

[Appogee]

You don't have to go out in the water where there's no cover. Stick to the side of the harbor where there is cover.

/thread

[Barantor]

Had my founders catapult and did actually really well in this map with LRMs. Mostly because half of the other team decided that the top of the docks was a good place to sit so I sat in the pass while a friendly commando got some spotting and then advanced up when they got occupied with our brawlers.

Thing is, there was a whole other half of the team I couldn't hit because they were under the docks and fighting our assaults.

I think this map requires some use of covering fire and maneuver that we haven't had before. It isn't just "everyone hide behind hill/ridge/crashed dropship and poke a lot.

You have to commit as a team to something and if the team all rushes you can end up really punishing your opponent.

Granted I will have to play some more, but I don't see any glaring problems with the map yet. Maybe some more 'minor cover' that hides parts of mechs is what you need? Seems that a lot of it is either full cover or out in the open, but again I think it is fine so far.

[RickySpanish]

I've not found a lack of cover to be a problem so far. Actually, I've found that it's quite easy to zip from one base to the other through the tunnel. Obviously if the enemy is holding either exit you will need to adapt your tactics a little... Like not gimping yourself with a short range only weapon build. If you ARE hell bent on running a gimp build, then yes you may have to work with your team and either wait till there's an opening, or protect your snipers from other brawlers if they make it through.

Edited by RickySpanish, 03 October 2013 - 09:44 AM.

[Stewbawl]

i disagree with your changes and feel the map is fine just the way it is.

each map should have a different feel to it. river city has a lot of cover to it and is smaller forcing more of a brawl style battle and forces mechs designed for long range to work a little harder to be viable. this map with it's open areas requires shorter range mechs to be a bit more careful in how they approach if they want to get in range.

[Carrioncrows]

Thad Jantzi, on 03 October 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

Ty for you proving my point and agreeing with me.

That isn't cover. That's a light pole you are attempting to cower behind while the entirety of the enemy team attacks you.

If there was just one enemy that I was trying to get cover from, that Would be a LEGITIMATE piece of cover.

It's not, there are 12 other enemies out there and no matter which way I try and position myself behind that "pole" at least 1/2 of them has shots on my mechs tearing it apart.



What i am asking for is pretty simple: More legitimate cover along a path that is viable for brawlers to advance (under cover) to at least get within range of the enemy.

Put some containers or walls, or crates, or buildings or something.

[NRP]

I actually use those pillars in the parking garage to great effect when brawling, especially when advancing on a fool. Just zig-zag through them on approach. If you time it right, you can be very difficult to hit.

The one gripe I do have is that it's far too easy for mechs to get stuck on/in those rectangular floor sections in the parking garage. This totally blows when you're in the middle of a brawl.

[Bilbo]

Carrioncrows, on 03 October 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

Ty for you proving my point and agreeing with me.

That isn't cover. That's a light pole you are attempting to cower behind while the entirety of the enemy team attacks you.

If there was just one enemy that I was trying to get cover from, that Would be a LEGITIMATE piece of cover.

It's not, there are 12 other enemies out there and no matter which way I try and position myself behind that "pole" at least 1/2 of them has shots on my mechs tearing it apart.



What i am asking for is pretty simple: More legitimate cover along a path that is viable for brawlers to advance (under cover) to at least get within range of the enemy.

Put some containers or walls, or crates, or buildings or something.

Stand on the other side of it?

[Oppresor]

Yes I agree it's a great map for Support or Sniping. I have just come off my first mission on Crimson Strait and as a Sniper can confirm that I have just got my highest score ever for the first time on a new map. For me the battle focussed on the valley through the hills, left of map. I was able to advance up to weapons clearance (Mid body, Atlas, low arms) and engage from distance with my ER Large lasers. As has been mentioned, there is very little cover for the enemy; the Jenner that I had a bit of a run in with took to using a bridge strut to hide behind; unfortunately for him or her I have the 4xZoom module and it worked in my favour for a change.

My personal favourite map is Tourmaline but this comes a close second.

[RandomLurker]

Agreed with OP. Also agreed with Thad. All I can think of when playing this map is: http://tvtropes.org/...in/BehindAStick

In addition, there are some other issues I've found:

First Major Issue: Fighting ALWAYS happens at Kappa (under the bridge). This is because one team has no other options. (this is the team that stars to far left of map). This team actually has 3 paths:
1: over the water. There is no cover and it's suicide. Nobody ever goes that way, except scouts.
2: Through Kappa and the Kill Zone. Nice touch putting breaks in the bridge so people ALWAYS fall underneath, even if they try to hold the top.
3: Over the mountain pass to the right. This is a steep climb that reduces assaults and heavies to a crawl, and doesn't serve any purpose on Assault mode anyway. On Assault, all taking this path would do is leave your base exposed to the inevitable push from the Kill Zone.

For the opposite team, the drop points are spread out in a long line along the docks instead of in a tight grouping. This result in people heading to their right, because that's where the line of mech's naturally leads. The mountain pass and tunnel are universally ignored.

So, Every. Single. Match. results in a brawl in the Kill Zone.

Second Major Issue: The hit geometry of the hills near the Kill Zone (on the right side especially) is terrible. I tried using these hills as cover to avoid going into the Kill Zone, and merely ended up putting all my shots into invisible walls.

Third Major Issue: The Island in the bay also has terrible hill geometry. In addition, it funnels anyone using it as cover into a single spot on the far side. Even light mechs have problems going through these hills, unless they follow the funnel.

Fourth Major Issue: The team that spawns to the South has a huge advantage, because they have a covered flanking path through the city to the water. This means Jagers/CTFs/ and other direct fire support mechs have a position to work from, while their counterparts can not make an effective battle line to counter it.

Overall, this map is almost (but not quite) as bad as Terra Therma.

One positive note: The city design is excellent. The mix of clustered city blocks and long avenues makes urban fighting a dream, it's a skirmisher's paradise. Also a brawlers paradise. It's just fun to play there. Too bad I've only ever fought there once, because everything ends up in the Kill Zone.