68 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

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I'd say that the scaling issues are partly responsible for the lack of advantages

Even if medium mechs were scaled properly they would still be mediocre in every category and they still wouldnt be the best at anything.

To fix medium mechs you have to fix the scaling, raise the speed cap for mediums, AND you have to make mediums more versatile/flexible than other weight classes. One possible way to do that is to give most mediums an extra module slot. Of course that would also require a better selection of modules as well. Mediums should be able to perform almost any role, although not as well as a more specialized weight class. The problem is the game punishes you for not being specialized, so for mediums to work their versatility has to be a strength rather than a weakness.

Also I think mediums suffer a lot from medium lasers being at 4 heat. Remember the swayback is the whole reason that medium lasers went from 3 heat to 4 heat. But is the swayback really a concern anymore now that its max speed is capped (plus theres ghost heat)? I've gotta think it would be okay to decrease medium laser heat to 3.5 at least.

Edited by Khobai, 03 October 2013 - 06:33 PM.

[Viges]

OneEyed Jack, on 03 October 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

Because what we really need is for Jenners to be able to spam their 6 ML faster, putting 30 points at a time pretty much wherever they want against a big, slow mech to be able to balance against being on-shot by tho.... oh, wait....

That's right. PGI has already nerfed the hell out of pretty much any chance to actually kill a light without putting numerous separate shots into the same location, but that's pretty easy to do because they're so big and slo...... oh, wait....

That's right. But at least after they've spammed the hell out of everything and need to cool, they'll be vulnerable since they can't break off and .... oh, wait......

BUT BUT you need skillzzz to drive at 150k/h coz if you hit the wall you will crash to dust and ...oh, wait...

Go to hell all 6ml jenners "masters".

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 03 October 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

Even if medium mechs were scaled properly they would still be mediocre in every category and they still wouldnt be the best at anything.

To fix medium mechs you have to fix the scaling, raise the speed cap for mediums, AND you have to make mediums more versatile/flexible than other weight classes. One possible way to do that is to give most mediums an extra module slot. Of course that would also require a better selection of modules as well. Mediums should be able to perform almost any role, although not as well as a more specialized weight class. The problem is the game punishes you for not being specialized, so for mediums to work their versatility has to be a strength rather than a weakness.

Making them more versatile than heavies, though, might be fairly difficult to do and it would take some pretty spiffy modules to pull it off (among plenty of other changes). There aren't very many tasks that heavies are bad at performing. Some more later-era lightweight options such as Light ACs, Light PPCs, and ER ML would be nice too (bigger mechs can mount them as well of course, but then again heavies and assaults already carry good payloads without them).

Khobai, on 03 October 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

Also I think mediums suffer a lot from medium lasers being at 4 heat. Remember the swayback is the whole reason that medium lasers went from 3 heat to 4 heat. But is the swayback really a concern anymore now that its max speed is capped (plus theres ghost heat)? I've gotta think it would be okay to decrease medium laser heat to 3.5 at least.

That would help too. Oh course, some folks are still too paranoid about a possible Swayback uprising even though projectiles register hits on them a lot better than they used too...

Edited by FupDup, 03 October 2013 - 07:08 PM.

[Daekar]

Wow... one word for this thread, RAGE!!!!!!

There are so many mistakes in the OP that it's difficult to see how you could intelligently respond. I'm not going to try.

Rest assured, if there are balance issues then they are such that changing MedLas heat from 4 to 3 isn't the answer. Honestly, this is really the best-balanced Mechwarrior game I've ever played, and I've played almost every single one.

I would support making many medium mechs smaller regardless of what their canon dimensions are.

[CancR]

Toong, on 03 October 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:

Okay. Just so we're clear, you realize that just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean they are "PGI diehards" (or "PGI kiss-*****" for that matter, whatever the heck it means anyway). They might be disagreeing with you because they actually think you're wrong.

Basically: I can't wrap my head around a statement so i'll just be a nay-sayer. Because..It's so hard to comprehend the idea of people being suck ups to get ahead rather then working for it.

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And what's this tin hattery about PGI balancing the game to bad players? Last I checked, they were balancing weapons against other weapons, as evidenced by their constantly talking about weaponry and how it stacks against other weapons. I've never seen a dev mention anywhere that they were changing a weapon because too many new/low skill players were getting destroyed by it. I have no idea where you got your information.

I cannot read but I must complain.

I had said in my statement that pgi balance the game to bad players because that is what they are. Meaning that bad players benefit the most from pgi balance because they will dumb down the rules to best aid them. I had chatted up one of the devs who shared some of my frustrations about MW:O and he had told me that in playtesting, when ever the devs where not able to do X, they made it simpler. can't deal with scouting big maps? make the maps small.

Not having fun because of heat eff mechs? up heat and core weapons and then make the maps that are already hot.

PGI dumbs down the game so they they can be good at it, rather then being like John Carmack and quake: Balancing the game to be higher skill all around. Which is why I justy compare this game to mechassault. Small maps, dumb down game play, and power-ups (tough you buy them rather then pick them up)


Same goes with ammo explosions, They still happen. And there was never any mechanic where you automatically died on your third overheat, so I don't know where you got that idea either. Or this claim that 'mechs can "full 180 in a half sec they come out of shutdown," especially in reference to heavies and assaults.

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Like seriously, are you just basing this rant off of a dream you had, or something?

Clearly its from something you don't have. Experience playing the game. Plainly shown as I provide historical and situation evidence for my positions, whilst you say "No...because...I say so..?"

[Adiuvo]

Khobai, on 03 October 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

Actually I would say Mediums have a higher skill floor/skill ceiling. Mediums have all the disadvantages of both Lights and Heavies with none of the advantages. On top of that youve got terrible scaling issues that make it very easy to pinpoint your hit locations relative to your tonnage/armor.

That's... not what skill ceiling and skill floor mean. Skill floor is the amount of skill needed required to not completely suck. Skill ceiling refers to the best someone can be, and the larger the difference between that and the skill floor, the larger the ceiling.

But yes mediums are in a terrible place right now.

[Grrzoot]

so it's just troll threads in here today?

[Khobai]

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That's... not what skill ceiling and skill floor mean. Skill floor is the amount of skill needed required to not completely suck. Skill ceiling refers to the best someone can be, and the larger the difference between that and the skill floor, the larger the ceiling.

But yes mediums are in a terrible place right now.

In chess, when you have two players of differing skill level, the more skilled player can opt to take a handicap and start the game with less pieces. Playing a medium mech is no different from that. You are deliberately incurring a handicap and it requires skill to overcome that handicap. That's why the skill ceiling on mediums is higher IMO.

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Making them more versatile than heavies, though, might be fairly difficult to do and it would take some pretty spiffy modules to pull it off

True. I suppose heavies could have the least number of module slots while mediums could have the most module slots. That might be enough to bring the two weight classes into parity. That would certainly make mediums more versatile than heavies which is how it should be. So 2 module slots for most heavies and 4 module slots for most mediums.

Edited by Khobai, 04 October 2013 - 07:24 AM.

[Eleshod]

I'm having little issues in my raven with medium lasers. I can get a full 10 or 11 cycles off before I have to back off for heat. Since I strafe and often dodge between structures while I attack is this actually too LITTLE heat, i'm far cooled before my next strafing run.