21 replies to this topic

[ilion]

Ill try to be brief, battletech has always been a tabletop game so mechs can be as silly and awesome has possible, but what will happen when a Marauder can shoot from a hull down position, on an Atlas trying to seek cover? Whose autocannon cant be brought to bear, because he is behind a house\rock wtv on his wrong side. Will we see some mech designs become more practical because of game design? It would be interesting to see.

Discuss

[frenzier]

If sutch details are not taken into account when balancing the game then it will suck...

[MaddMaxx]

Having to account for where the Weapon is on your Mech when firing while behind blocking obstructions is a must.

Certain designs absolutely offer advantages when using cover appropriate to their design but most of those also have to assure that said cover is readily available; or they present the enemy with either a very Large or very Tall silhouette.

Mechwarrior / Battletech games always provide much food for thought for the Dev's who are designing. These are but a small fraction to be accounted for.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 11 November 2011 - 04:09 PM.

[Riptor]

To pick up your little example:

The marauders arms hang very low compared to that of an atlas.. so while the marauder might use his autocannon the atlas can answer with his med lasers in his arms and his lrms in his upper torso..

I would say the Atlas has the advantage here since the marauder can not bring his main weapons to bear since they hang to low.

[Amechwarrior]

I think the previous MW games did in fact have the weapons fire originate from the tips of the respective barrels. Unlike say, Halo, where if you look closely you will find since Halo 1 the fire originates from the center-line and slightly above the models eye level, it comes from where the FPS view is, not the barrel, they just add muzzle flash on the barrel to hide it. I think any MW title will have weapons fire generating from the ports, no reason not to.

[Werewolf]

Actually, you have to differentiate at the OP's starting point already.
Battletech is not a tabletop game per se - it's more of a tactical wargame / boardgame. However, with the possibility of using
the so-called miniatures rules, you can make it a pure tabletop game, with all the benefits and drawbacks that come with it.
One of these is the fact that you actually have to check for line of sight from attacker to target. So, basically, it depends where
you come from.
Personally, I, as the board-game player, would of course join the ranks of people that hope for a decent line-of-sight system.

To answer your question on another level: Yes, I hope to see such tactical advantage due to a 'Mechs design.
Take the UrbanMech as an example - it's rather short compared to even other 'Mechs of its (weight) class, but why?
Because it was intended for urban combat, where it can and should remain hidden behind houses, while other,
unspecialized designs, easily can stand out in the very same situation.

[Hayden]

To me the easy solution is to just make big buildings really big and small buildings really small.

[GI Journalist]

To me the solutions is to level the building that is in the way of my shot.

This topic does suggest the question of 'Mech scale. How much difference can we expect between the height and size of the light and assault designs? Will it give the light 'Mechs a significant advantage when trying to find cover?

[VYCanis]

would be interesting to see different chassis having their own particular pros and cons, independent of their weight class

I think i remember a house rule somewhere where they allowed urbanmechs 360 torso twist in the TT, whivh makes sense given the shape of the torso, Or quickdraws doing the arm flip, even though they still have lower arm actuators

Edited by VYCanis, 11 November 2011 - 10:04 PM.

[Halfinax]

Riptor, on 11 November 2011 - 04:19 PM, said:

To pick up your little example:

The marauders arms hang very low compared to that of an atlas.. so while the marauder might use his autocannon the atlas can answer with his med lasers in his arms and his lrms in his upper torso..

I would say the Atlas has the advantage here since the marauder can not bring his main weapons to bear since they hang to low.

What?! The Marauder has a PPC in each arm. Compared the the Atlas' Medium laser in each arm. Clearly in this situation the advantage goes to the Marauder.

[Xhaleon]

Riptor, on 11 November 2011 - 04:19 PM, said:

To pick up your little example:

The marauders arms hang very low compared to that of an atlas.. so while the marauder might use his autocannon the atlas can answer with his med lasers in his arms and his lrms in his upper torso..

I would say the Atlas has the advantage here since the marauder can not bring his main weapons to bear since they hang to low.

On the other hand, that is just stupidity caused by game-mechanics. In a rational reality, that Marauder can lift its arms higher to shoot over cover. Heck, it's pretty much one of the greatest advantages of a humanoid combat platform. So it should apply to all mechs at all angles of attack, but we all know that it is a very tricky thing to program without turning the game into a cover shooter.

[ilion]

Xhaleon, on 11 November 2011 - 11:06 PM, said:

On the other hand, that is just stupidity caused by game-mechanics. In a rational reality, that Marauder can lift its arms higher to shoot over cover. Heck, it's pretty much one of the greatest advantages of a humanoid combat platform. So it should apply to all mechs at all angles of attack, but we all know that it is a very tricky thing to program without turning the game into a cover shooter.

I was thinking more of the cannon the marauder has on the top of his head, which seems excellent in a dug in position, not actually his arms.

[MaddMaxx]

Or the RFL-4D Rifleman who can bring its PPC's to bear while exposing very little of itself.

[itchies]

MaddMaxx, on 12 November 2011 - 07:47 AM, said:

Or the RFL-4D Rifleman who can bring its PPC's to bear while exposing very little of itself.

Which brings up a great question regarding Rifleman, Jaegermech, Blackjack (to name a few) that these mechs could specifically "flip" their arms (had to be both) and be able to target to their rear. Is this feature going to be in game?

[Adridos]

itchies, on 12 November 2011 - 11:27 AM, said:

Which brings up a great question regarding Rifleman, Jaegermech, Blackjack (to name a few) that these mechs could specifically "flip" their arms (had to be both) and be able to target to their rear. Is this feature going to be in game?

We don't have any idea.

[Kumakichi]

The right way to do it is have weapons being effected by LoS. Am I mistaken or isn't that what we saw in the teaser video for MWO?

[MaddMaxx]

Kumakichi, on 12 November 2011 - 03:41 PM, said:

The right way to do it is have weapons being effected by LoS. Am I mistaken or isn't that what we saw in the teaser video for MWO?

Not sure what you mean but LoS should only affect the accuracy of certain weapons, Beam/Ballistic, but not the ability to fire them.

An example of that would be a Mech that has a Right Arm mounted Gauss Rifle, the arm has a firing lane, current LoS is the Pilot saw the enemy standing in the middle of the street +/- 300m away. He has hidden the rest of the Mech behind a building. Based on a recent visual and current radar data, the pilot himself does not have direct LoS but can fire down the street with some confidence of hitting the enemy Mech.

But, if said pilot triggers the center torso LRM 10 by accident, the building eats the missiles and due to its proximity to the impending explosions, the AoE/Splash of those missiles should torture the frontal armor of said firing Mech and if it had been damaged enough prior to, may bring about the Mechs own demise.

One assumes the game will have a fully deformable environment of course.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 14 November 2011 - 07:36 AM.

[Xhaleon]

MaddMaxx, on 14 November 2011 - 07:35 AM, said:

dat postage

I doubt that would be a problem for IS LRMs though. You'd probably miss the building in front of you completely.

[TheRulesLawyer]

itchies, on 12 November 2011 - 11:27 AM, said:

Which brings up a great question regarding Rifleman, Jaegermech, Blackjack (to name a few) that these mechs could specifically "flip" their arms (had to be both) and be able to target to their rear. Is this feature going to be in game?

I'm all for it so long as it takes an appropriate amount of time to flip. IE no fps style instant flip.

[UncleKulikov]

Weapon location definitely should be included. It will require players to have situational awareness, and also mech familiarity. It will also make the game more interesting.