50 replies to this topic

[Mr 144]

I don't like Gauss on the muppet...low arms are just meh for gauss imo.

There really is no substitute for the Jager-S with 2xGauss + 4xML. Don't use the -A though...I have no idea why it's suggested so much as it has bad twist compared to the others.

[MisterPlanetarian]

Jager or the Cataphract do best. The Cataphract will last longer if it gets caught up close. and it can comfortably go over 70kph without skimping on ammo or backup weapons. K2 is a thing of the past boys, Convergence is nice but hardly a game changer. It's a much bigger target than a Jager and has a signifigant tonnage disadvantage over a Cataphract. I generally find that a Phract can shoot from almost every position you find K2's hugging.


That said the K2 has the sweetest engine hum to accompany your sniping adventures.

[Xyuni]

I think Cataphract Dual Gauss > Jager Dual Gauss, although Jager have high mounted arms .... it doesn't have jump jets.... jump jets adds alot of strategic advantage to a sniper , if you know how to snipe mid air... it's totally doable and fun.

+ you don't gimp yourself too much when going dual gauss in a Cataphract, as you'll still have 4 med lasers to defend yourself when you run out of ammo.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

DarkDevilDancer, on 04 October 2013 - 04:16 AM, said:

Cataphract 3D with two gauss and three mlas works well, the big advantage is the jump jets let you get into a good firing position letting you use the range to good effect.

And up close a 45 point alpha can ruin most people's day.

Massive MASSIVE downside is Cascading Gauss 'Splosion Syndrome. You lose that Right arm, you lose the whole mech.

But I supposed if you REALLY want that double Gauss and Jets... it is the only option.

[DarkDevilDancer]

Thing is I can't remember the last time I lost that arm, I torso twist and let the left arm absorb damage, I'm far more likely to lose the CT than the arm so it's a risk I knowingly take for the advantage of long range low heat fire power.

[Roughneck45]

Do 2 Gauss and 3 ML's with an XL engine, or run a standard engine with just the gauss.

[Gwydion Ward]

Jag's work best for a Dual Gauss Build simply due to the high arm-mounts, which let you fire 'over' hills and other obsticles. But... here's my current Ilya build:

ILYA MUROMETS

And before anyone fusses about the Armor values. I can count the number of times i have lost anything OTHER than my CT, on 1 hand, and have 3 fingers left over.... per MONTH while using this build. No one ever aims for 'anything' but the CT in MWO. Its a rare instance you run into one of us that aims for anything other than the CT.

Sofar its worked well for me... Other mech's dont realize how badly dual Gauss' hurt when their aimed at arms or legs rather than their CT. Ive completely stripped Catapaults in 4 shots before.. and even blown arms off Atlasses with it.

[MuKen]

Rhapsody Repine, on 07 October 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

And before anyone fusses about the Armor values. I can count the number of times i have lost anything OTHER than my CT, on 1 hand, and have 3 fingers left over.... per MONTH while using this build. No one ever aims for 'anything' but the CT in MWO. Its a rare instance you run into one of us that aims for anything other than the CT.

Fusses? It's not out of the ordinary to put a little less in the arms. That being said, if you NEVER lose anything but CT like you seem to be saying, you should probably be torso twisting more than you are.

Edited by MuKen, 07 October 2013 - 02:42 PM.

[Mr 144]

Rhapsody Repine, on 07 October 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

Jag's work best for a Dual Gauss Build simply due to the high arm-mounts, which let you fire 'over' hills and other obsticles. But... here's my current Ilya build:

ILYA MUROMETS

And before anyone fusses about the Armor values. I can count the number of times i have lost anything OTHER than my CT, on 1 hand, and have 3 fingers left over.... per MONTH while using this build. No one ever aims for 'anything' but the CT in MWO. Its a rare instance you run into one of us that aims for anything other than the CT.

Sofar its worked well for me... Other mech's dont realize how badly dual Gauss' hurt when their aimed at arms or legs rather than their CT. Ive completely stripped Catapaults in 4 shots before.. and even blown arms off Atlasses with it.

I'll agree with you that torso twisting is completely over-rated. Either you're facing noobs with no trigger discipline, or you're facing pros who will wait for optimal component targeting...either way, twisting while beneficial to at least force the opponent to 'work for it' hardly matters in the grand scheme of things.

That being said...a Jager -S is still far superior with both hill-humping abilities, and 4xML to boot.

Edited by Mr 144, 07 October 2013 - 02:47 PM.

[MuKen]

Mr 144, on 07 October 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

I'll agree with you that torso twisting is completely over-rated. Either you're facing noobs with no trigger discipline, or you're facing pros who will wait for optimal component targeting...either way, twisting while beneficial to at least force the opponent to 'work for it' hardly matters in the grand scheme of things.

The fact that pros will wait for optimal targetting does not mean torso twisting is useless. The fact that you made them wait at all is a good thing. Anything could happen between now and when they next get a shot; they could die or lose a weapon, somebody could run in the way, they may get thrown off by screen shake, you may get to cover, etc.

And even if nothing happens, the fact that they waited is still good. What do you think is better, that they get a shot whenever you are ready for them to, or that they are just dumping everything they've got into your CT whenever they feel like it, as soon as their weapons come off cooldown?

Edited by MuKen, 07 October 2013 - 03:28 PM.

[Gwydion Ward]

MuKen, on 07 October 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

Fusses? It's not out of the ordinary to put a little less in the arms. That being said, if you NEVER lose anything but CT like you seem to be saying, you should probably be torso twisting more than you are.

Torso twisting does not good if the other guy just waits for you to turn back again. Torso twisting only helps against LRM's or other long-range weapons. Anything mid-range or short.. Toro twisting does no good, as they just wait for you to turn back.

[MuKen]

Rhapsody Repine, on 07 October 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

Toro twisting does no good, as they just wait for you to turn back.

Which is good for you, as I just explained above.

Edited by MuKen, 07 October 2013 - 03:33 PM.

[Mr 144]

MuKen, on 07 October 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

The fact that pros will wait for optimal targetting does not mean torso twisting is useless. The fact that you made them wait at all is a good thing. Anything could happen between now and when they next get a shot; they could die or lose a weapon, somebody could run in the way, they may get thrown off by screen shake, you may get to cover, etc.

And even if nothing happens, the fact that they waited is still good. What do you think is better, that they get a shot whenever you are ready for them to, or that they are just dumping everything they've got into your CT whenever they feel like it, as soon as their weapons come off cooldown?

I'm sorry...did I say 'useless' ?

[MuKen]

Granted. I read "hardly matters" as being about the same as useless, but I suppose it's all degrees.

[Racklesnack]

This is what I run on my muro ILYA MUROMETS

[KrakenSomeEggs]

i have a twin gauss im my Jager- S. Also MLx2, i run a 265XL with standard HS and added ES structure. I can't remember the amount of ammo or heat sinks but you could play around with it. HS you don't need to worry about to much though because gauss have no heat.

[MisterPlanetarian]

Mr 144, on 07 October 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

I'll agree with you that torso twisting is completely over-rated. Either you're facing noobs with no trigger discipline, or you're facing pros who will wait for optimal component targeting...either way, twisting while beneficial to at least force the opponent to 'work for it' hardly matters in the grand scheme of things.

That being said...a Jager -S is still far superior with both hill-humping abilities, and 4xML to boot.

Jagermechs have to deal with ammo shortages when mounting gauss rifles which makes it less effective as fire support than a cataphract of the same build.

I prefer AC2 or the AC10 on the Jager because you can actually use it's superior mobility to gain better positioning early in the game. AC10's beat Gauss rifles hands down for midrange sustained brawling nowadays. AC2 Ghost heat is not an issue unless you stagger fire. AC10's also let you break 75-80 kph effortlessly with more than 90 shots to boot.

And if you have anywhere close to 10 seconds of uptime on a large target, which is not at all uncommon as firesupport, then you can kill any assault mech in the game very quickly if you use 4x AC2's.

[Mr 144]

MisterPlanetarian, on 08 October 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

Jagermechs have to deal with ammo shortages when mounting gauss rifles which makes it less effective as fire support than a cataphract of the same build.

I prefer AC2 or the AC10 on the Jager because you can actually use it's superior mobility to gain better positioning early in the game. AC10's beat Gauss rifles hands down for midrange sustained brawling nowadays. AC2 Ghost heat is not an issue unless you stagger fire. AC10's also let you break 75-80 kph effortlessly with more than 90 shots to boot.

And if you have anywhere close to 10 seconds of uptime on a large target, which is not at all uncommon as firesupport, then you can kill any assault mech in the game very quickly if you use 4x AC2's.

meh...we can disagree...50 rounds of gauss ammo seems to be admittedly just a tad low but plenty to get the job done, but the 4xML relatively high mounted compared to the 'phracts low arms and split energy points is a fair trade-off to me. Gauss builds aren't about damage, and I prefer the better cover abilitiy the Jager offers by far. Don't get me wrong, I love phracts...just not for dual guass builds. Under half exposed 50 point alpha's is enough to push the Jager-S into top spot imho, unless pop-tarting in a 3D is your thing.

[MisterPlanetarian]

Before 12v12 when ammo was less of an issue I used the Gauss Jager ALOT. But now, especially after the gauss changes I just find myself running out of ammo or dying too fast because I picked a sniperbuild for a close range map.

I'm not in disagreement on that the Jager is superior in general as a Ballistic platform. It's just that in any scenario where I need to resort to hillhumping I'm typically at sub 500m Ranges where AC10's actually work a bit better with their instant fire and fast reload/high dps. As a result I Simply dropped Gauss on the Jager alltogether. JM6-S Does more damage with AC2's, the Firebrand/JM6-DD works better with AC10's.


On Phracts, the 4X/3D or the Ilya muromets on the other hand can pack 2x Gauss, 2-4 Med Lasers and 6-8+ Tons of ammo with possibly an AMS to boot if you downgrade to an XL255 instead of the usual XL280. This lets you be more liberal in picking your targets as ammo is really no concern. Also worth noting is that the Gauss is the only weapon that deals 10 pinpoint damage at 1000 meters. Once you get to those extreme ranges It's more about how many volleys you can toss downrange than evading AC5/UAC5 or PPC fire which does little more than scratching your paint at those ranges.

[Nehkrosis]

This is my 4x.

its nice n cheap, and very effective.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bbdc5ca661c846b