223 replies to this topic

[Devil Fox]

soarra, on 05 October 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

i can account for 5 or 6 from my guys that did it, some kept it in hopes it gets better

That's why I kept mine... throw in I'm not dropping money on the sabre package because those mechs don't look very safe to play, due to lopsided harpoints and the Shadowhawk playing a more versatile role in the 55t range. I know quite a few blokes who got refunds, but I also know twice as many just keeping it for the early access mechs hoping the game improves... as it is these type of characters ain't dropping loose money into the game until they see improvements.

[Hexenhammer]

Jack Gallows, on 05 October 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

Since PGI won't be transparent with the numbers we won't ever know the solid truth.

Nor should we because it's pure troll fuel and it's a no win situation for PGI.

They keep quiet: "PGI is trying to cover up the truth." "I know 90 people that say they got refunds." "Damnit I have a right to know how many refunds there's been!"

They release the numbers. "PGI is tanking! 300 refunds! This game is doomed! We told you so suckers!" "Whoo! PGI fell for a suckers trap and now we get to really **** kick 'me. Whooohoo! I win!"

So what would you do as PGI? Let the trolls yap and bite at your ankles or do the very thing they want; feed them.

Edited by Hexenhammer, 05 October 2013 - 05:23 PM.

[rolly]

What ever happen to "Caveat Emptor"?

[Hexenhammer]

rolly, on 05 October 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

What ever happen to "Caveat Emptor"?

Oh no. We have to protect people from themselves. Little Johnny might be offended and we can't afford to damage his psyche or he won't grow up to be my friend and live in mommy's basement till he's 26.

[Monsoon]

I only know of one person who got a refund, and not from dissatisfaction, but because of finances. But now he's got the spare money, and was planning to re-buy it again. But then again my current unit (as well as my old unit) is full mostly of laid back, easy going players, who just want to have fun in one of our favourite IPs.

Edited by Monsoon, 05 October 2013 - 06:38 PM.

[Prince V]

Alpha087, on 05 October 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

While I do agree that it's nice to have PGI being honest about people having the ability to seek refunds, I fail to see any part of it admitting that they did anything wrong, and I don't agree the with implication that they did anything wrong either. What about the Phoenix packages are not correct in delivering what they claim you're paying for?

I suppose I wasn't entirely clear. Let me explain.
PGI isn't perfect; they've missed deadlines, gone back on promises, taken the game in directions they said they wouldn't or lead people to believe they wouldn't, etc. These things can, and usually do, cause customer dissatisfaction (whether you want to argue about 'entitlement', 'unfair expectations', or whatever, the point still stands). The act of buying anything in this game, but especially an act of faith for something you don't fully know about and won't have in your hands for months, is essentially displaying both satisfaction in their performance so far and faith that they'll continue to earn your approval. Likewise, refunding the package is (Other than for reasons of finance issues) essentially the opposite. It's expressing dissatisfaction and a lack of faith in them about their goals, capabilities, whatever.
This mean that, rather than doing silly things like, oh I don't know, removing the player count or hiding certain statistics from users, essentially hiding anything that would reflect badly on them even in the slightest, they're publicly acknowledging that there are people, no matter how few or how many, that AREN'T satisfied. That's a step in the right direction.

The alternative is to hide everything, which is a bad idea. It can only make things worse. I can understand hiding certain things, and there will ALWAYS be trolls, but that's just the point. There will always be trolls, no matter what you do. So what's the answer? Transparency.
So maybe PGI puts in a new patch that upsets the balance a little bit and a few hundred/thousand players rage out and decide to stop playing, maybe half come back after a week, who knows. We don't. If we could see the ACTUAL player metrics (If they're as wonderful as Garth says they are) we'd have nothing but renewed faith, and probably laugh out the trolls. Instead, they hide them, which has the dual-effect of both making impossible to put-down the doomsday-ers that say the game is bound to fail, but also making people such as myself suspicious of how well things are actually going. Are they just tired of the trolls and don't want to give them ammo, or are they actually desperately holding onto about 50,000 people that actually still play/play?
Concealing everything makes people who normally wouldn't be, distrustful, and it doesn't even stop the trolls either way. In short, it can only make things go from good to bad, or bad to worse.

Now before you think I've totally digressed into a rant, (I did a little) I say this because I see this forum thread as a step in the right direction. Not perfect, not terrible, not any other superlative adjective you can come up with, but a step in the right direction, nothing more nothing less.

Edited by Prince V, 05 October 2013 - 09:51 PM.

[Alpha087]

Prince V, on 05 October 2013 - 09:49 PM, said:

I suppose I wasn't entirely clear. Let me explain.
PGI isn't perfect; they've missed deadlines, gone back on promises, taken the game in directions they said they wouldn't or lead people to believe they wouldn't, etc. These things can, and usually do, cause customer dissatisfaction (whether you want to argue about 'entitlement', 'unfair expectations', or whatever, the point still stands). The act of buying anything in this game, but especially an act of faith for something you don't fully know about and won't have in your hands for months, is essentially displaying both satisfaction in their performance so far and faith that they'll continue to earn your approval. Likewise, refunding the package is (Other than for reasons of finance issues) essentially the opposite. It's expressing dissatisfaction and a lack of faith in them about their goals, capabilities, whatever.
This mean that, rather than doing silly things like, oh I don't know, removing the player count or hiding certain statistics from users, essentially hiding anything that would reflect badly on them even in the slightest, they're publicly acknowledging that there are people, no matter how few or how many, that AREN'T satisfied. That's a step in the right direction.

The alternative is to hide everything, which is a bad idea. It can only make things worse. I can understand hiding certain things, and there will ALWAYS be trolls, but that's just the point. There will always be trolls, no matter what you do. So what's the answer? Transparency.
So maybe PGI puts in a new patch that upsets the balance a little bit and a few hundred/thousand players rage out and decide to stop playing, maybe half come back after a week, who knows. We don't. If we could see the ACTUAL player metrics (If they're as wonderful as Garth says they are) we'd have nothing but renewed faith, and probably laugh out the trolls. Instead, they hide them, which has the dual-effect of both making impossible to put-down the doomsday-ers that say the game is bound to fail, but also making people such as myself suspicious of how well things are actually going. Are they just tired of the trolls and don't want to give them ammo, or are they actually desperately holding onto about 50,000 people that actually still play/play?
Concealing everything makes people who normally wouldn't be, distrustful, and it doesn't even stop the trolls either way. In short, it can only make things go from good to bad, or bad to worse.

Now before you think I've totally digressed into a rant, (I did a little) I say this because I see this forum thread as a step in the right direction. Not perfect, not terrible, not any other superlative adjective you can come up with, but a step in the right direction, nothing more nothing less.

I can agree with most of that, though I, personally, don't see certain things, such as missed deadlines and promises such as 3pv as big of issues as some people might. Then again I've been an MMO player for the last 9 years and know that sometimes there are just things that developers have to do, even when it upsets a good number of their playerbase. I've loved this game since the first day I started playing. It's had it's ups and downs. I even took a few months break when we entered the PoptartWarrior Online era. But when I took that money and gave it to PGI for the Phoenix package, I wasn't considering the ups or downs. I was considering how much I play the game and how much I wanted those 'mechs.

Though now you've gone and sent me on a rant of my own... Anyways, my point more was how a select group of people just insist upon throwing their dissatisfaction with unrelated parts of the game into the Phoenix package threads. Claiming it's a conspiracy, or money-grab, or an overall sign that PGI is failing because they didn't do what that person wanted, and it's those people that upset me. This game wasn't designed for any one specific person. It was designed for all BattleTech, MechWarrior, and giant-shooting-robots fans.

There might be some things about that people may not like, but I, at least feel like PGI has managed to give us a nice middle-ground and a game that I look forward to playing a lot now, and in the future. This game is still one-of-a-kind, and the first solid MechWarrior title I've seen since MW4:Mercenaries. I would take it, and any of its flaws over no MechWarrior game at all any day.

Edited by Alpha087, 05 October 2013 - 10:27 PM.

[Cimarb]

Prince V, on 05 October 2013 - 09:49 PM, said:

...The alternative is to hide everything, which is a bad idea. It can only make things worse. I can understand hiding certain things, and there will ALWAYS be trolls, but that's just the point. There will always be trolls, no matter what you do. So what's the answer? Transparency....

I agree with the Prince - more transparency is always better, unless it involves legal or protective issues. The other side of it is that, even with more transparency, you can still have just as many issues - take the US governments goal of extensive transparency...that hasn't worked out the best for them, unfortunately.

You have to protect your interests and do some cloak and dagger for the greater good, but I do think much greater transparency and communication would drastically help PGI. You can see the outpouring of positive feelings from the recent spurt of PGI communication, and if they keep that up I don't think they will have to worry about refunds anymore.

[Mao of DC]

I got suckered by the topic title I thought it was announcing the end of sale. Still the information is appreciated.

[Wieland]

Quote

Q: Has a sale end date been announced yet?
A: Not at this time. We want to ensure our biggest fans have ample opportunity to purchase these exclusive packages before they are vaulted. Once vaulted, the Phoenix BattleMechs will never be made available again.

Its running more than 3 months now. Grow some balls and announce an end date.
If the biggest fans havent bought it yet they arent such big fans.

Edited by Wieland, 06 October 2013 - 02:27 AM.

[Kotrin]

Meh. As soon as Phoenix Project / Saber Package will be delivered there will be a brand new Clan Founder pack with Omnimechs punching holes so big in everyone's armor that we'll all be out for another round of cheese complaints.

Keep your $$$ for the real b i g 'Mechs I say. A Hero Daishi or nothin'!

[John MatriX82]

Kotrin, on 06 October 2013 - 02:42 AM, said:

Meh. As soon as Phoenix Project / Saber Package will be delivered there will be a brand new Clan Founder pack with Omnimechs punching holes so big in everyone's armor that we'll all be out for another round of cheese complaints.

Keep your $$$ for the real b i g 'Mechs I say. A Hero Daishi or nothin'!

This, my suspect is that on the contrary of what has been announced, we'll get some clan stuff earlier than the usual "end of the summer" period like it has been with Founders and Phoenix.

And tbh for the moment PGI really has to show off CW and good things before I even think about spending any of my remaining MCs.

Add that I don't know what to do with the Locust, chosen variant for Phoenix of the SH is poor compared to the other two, TB looks bulky and AWS-like as the Wolverine is.. meh the truly interesting chassis is the Battlemaster and to an extent, the Griffin, from a competitive pov of course. Given this, I am not certainly spending 110$ to get 2 useful chassis over 6.

[Iqfish]

Wieland, on 06 October 2013 - 02:17 AM, said:

Its running more than 3 months now. Grow some balls and announce an end date.
If the biggest fans havent bought it yet they arent such big fans.

What the hell is your problem?! You are insulting PGI because they did not set an end date?!

[Frozen Spirit Jac]

Poppaukko, on 04 October 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

Can you imagine the shitstorm if they didn't announce the last day for the refunds?

I think people should stop complaining. It is a tough world out there, and there are a lot of sharks, who will not think twice to ripping others off, simply because they can. Be grateful that the forum is providing so much information to help the clients & gamers.

[Wintersdark]

IqfishLP, on 06 October 2013 - 06:00 AM, said:

What the hell is your problem?! You are insulting PGI because they did not set an end date?!

People rag on PGI for anything. Anything at all. It absolutely does not matter what PGI does, it'll **** somebody off. And then people wonder why they don't communicate more - it's less obnoxious to deal with people bitching because they don't know anything rather than because they've taken small tidbits of information in absolutely ridiculous directions.

Edited by Wintersdark, 06 October 2013 - 06:22 AM.

[Wired]

Prince V, on 05 October 2013 - 09:49 PM, said:

A really good post

Back when open beta launched, there was a vocal minority claiming that every game involved a 8 to 0 loss and had to be against a premade. Or something along those lines. Point was, Premades were raining from the sky and obliterating everyone.

PGI Claimed they had the metrics and the numbers that proved otherwise.

So did they implement features to boost team play within the game itself so that people felt like there was not an edge to being in a group on teamspeak?

No, they did exactly what the vocal minority asked and broke up how you could group with friends thereby giving credence to their claims.

So yea, Here we are almost a year later and PGI is still playing the "We have the facts but we are not sharing them!" game, and once again to their detriment.

[Navy Sixes]

Thanks for the info,PGI.

Forget info on how many refunds. I want to see how many rage-funds over 3pv, immediately followed by "Never mind, and here's 30 bucks for Sabre!" as soon as that package came out.

Bonus if you can release info on how many of those players immediately went on line to tell everyone else that PGI sucks and they shouldn't spend a dime...

[Jman5]

Wintersdark, on 06 October 2013 - 06:21 AM, said:

People rag on PGI for anything. Anything at all. It absolutely does not matter what PGI does, it'll **** somebody off. And then people wonder why they don't communicate more - it's less obnoxious to deal with people bitching because they don't know anything rather than because they've taken small tidbits of information in absolutely ridiculous directions.

The ironic thing about all this is that the haters like to think they are intelligent people who can think for themselves and yet it's them who are the biggest bunch of group-thinking sheep in the community. Right now the group-think tells them that PGI = bad so therefore anytime PGI does something, you have to point out the negative. If you can't find anything bad then you say things like: "This should have been in the game months ago!" or just bring something up totally unrelated "Ok, but where's community warfare?!"

It's pretty obvious when you see them all regurgitating the same talking-points, posting the same screenshots, and using identical signatures. These people are the biggest sheep in the community and yet they always put on these airs of being thoughtful and critical analyzers. It's pretty sad to see people so easily manipulated, but I take heart in the fact that their zombie-like brains will switch over to the "like" column once the people driving the hate-train decide the game is pretty good.

Edited by Jman5, 06 October 2013 - 07:16 AM.

[Iqfish]

Wintersdark, on 06 October 2013 - 06:21 AM, said:

People rag on PGI for anything. Anything at all. It absolutely does not matter what PGI does, it'll **** somebody off. And then people wonder why they don't communicate more - it's less obnoxious to deal with people bitching because they don't know anything rather than because they've taken small tidbits of information in absolutely ridiculous directions.

But why? This Thread is obviously a try of PGI to soften the waves and show that they are not evil minded and only want us to be happy, but sometimes are not abled to achieve this.

They steer in a VERY good direction at the moment IMHO with all the communications, I'm slowly rebuilding thrust into this company!

[BillHones]

Can't quote on this device but I wanted to also point the respect that pgi should deserve. This just goes to show the haters that they care more about the players than about the money. They just have good intentions overall.