20 replies to this topic

[Leeroy Mechkins]

Here is a rating from one to five stars for weapons, and short analysis of their competitiveness.
Just my opinions. May be useful for new players.


ENERGY WEAPONS:

Medium Laser *****: At 1 ton and 1 slot for 5 points of damage, it fits easily into many builds. Many can be used (up to 6) without any extra heat penalty. The downsides are short range and long fire duration (causes beam to drag around instead of concentrating on one area).

Medium Pulse Laser ***: This has a shorter fire duration (better concentration of damage in 1 location) and does 1 more damage than a medium laser. However, these advantages may not be worth the disadvantages: 2 x the weight of a medium laser and only 180m range.

Small Laser ****: Good on light/fast mechs without the tonnage and/or space to fit larger/heavier weapons. Short duration is good for strafing. The 90m range makes it not very useful on slower mechs.

Small Pulse Laser ***: Is the slightly higher rate of fire worth 2 x the weight of a small laser? Usually not. May work on some light mechs.

Large Laser ****: Nice weight and size for a medium range weapon gives this a high rating. Downsides are lack of longer range and extra heat penalty for more than 2 Large Lasers. Also, long duration means the beam gets dragged around on the target and spreads damage around rather that on a single spot.

Large Pulse Laser **: Very heavy and hot for the damage it does. Also, 300m range is very low for a large energy weapon (Only 30m more than Medium Laser). There are usually better alternatives unless you are constrained by hardpoint types and number.

ER Large Laser ***: Is it worth adding 1.5 heat on your Large Laser for more range? Only sometimes. Not a bad weapon, but very situational in its usefulness.

PPC ***: Much loved on alpha builds such as 4xPPC Stalkers etc. Disrupts ECM, which can be useful. However, the heat requires many heatsinks and this prevents a higher rating for this weapon. Lack of damage below 90m is frustrating when facing light mechs up close.

ERPPC **: A PPC with improved range sounds very attractive. However, 15(!) heat, is the worst in the whole game by far, and makes you have to totally revise your build to fit heat sinks, or spend much time overheating during matches. Disrupts ECM like PPCs, so that is one good thing.

Flamer *: Very niche weapon. Takes a long time to cause shutdown. Better to fit other weapons in most cases.


BALLISTIC WEAPONS:

AC20 *****: One of the best weapons for brawling. 20 pinpoint damage scores a lot of final blows. Weight and heat efficient for an AC. The only downside is short range and only 7 shots/ton.

Gauss Rifle ***: Heat efficient, great range, nice damage and low projectile drop. However, the new charge-up time really makes this weapon difficult to use in mobile fights, and for firing while ducking in and out of cover. Also, the weapons explodes if hit.

AC10 ***: Flexible range, decent damage. However, 12 tons plus ammo weight is heavy for only 10 points of damage. Only 2 tons more gets you an AC20! Nevertheless it is useful for some medium range builds with a ballistic slot.

LBX10 **: Not bad at getting criticals on damaged targets. However, 11 tons is very heavy for only 10 points of damage and especially since scatter damage is not so useful on full health targets. Fine if you must have a scatter weapon in a ballistic slot, otherwise there are many other weapons that could use those 11 tons more effectively.

AC5 ****: Quite a well-rounded weapon. It has nice range and damage/sec (rate of fire makes up for its lower damage). Sure its heavier than lasers, but it runs cooler and has no fire duration. It was overshadowed by the UAC5 until that was nerfed by raising the jamming chance. Best used in multiples.

UAC5 ***: Used to be great, but now its high jam chance has made it a very situational weapon. In sustained battle, AC5s are going to be better. However, if you can fit multiple UAC5s, eg. 3xUAC5 Cataphract, it may still do enough damage before it jams to be worth it.

AC2 ***: High rate of fire can disorient or scare targets. It can match AC5 damage if constantly fired and has good range. However, low damage per shot is weak for long range fights where both sides are taking 1-2 shots then covering. This weakness can be reduced by using 3 or 4 on some builds.

Machine Gun **: Multiple MGs are effective on a small number of builds, mostly light mechs such as Jumpjetting Spiders. However, it is useless on most builds due to low damage and range. This is rated low because it is very situational, not because it is a bad weapon.


MISSILE WEAPONS:

SRM4/6 ****: Fun and light for the amount of damage they do. Artemis makes them even deadlier. Good for finishing off damaged targets, less good against full health targets. SRM2s are **, not too useful for the weight.

Steak SRM 2 ***: Anti-light mech repellent. ECM and damage distribution changes has made this a bit less competitive. Consider Beagle Active Probe to overcome ECM if you use this.

LRM5/10/15/20 ***** or * depending on tactics: The only indirect fire weapon. How do you rate this when it can turn the tide of victory in some matches or be totally useless in others due to ECM blocking? Some people ripplefire multiple LRM5s to cause maximum disruption, while others go for LRM15/20s to overcome AMS. TAG and ECM have added depth to the gameplay for LRMs.

Note that every weapon has its role and place, none are useless.
I will happily use a two/three star weapon on builds with certain hardpoint layout and with the right tactics.
What do you think about these ratings?

Edited by Leeroy Mechkins, 11 October 2013 - 12:41 AM.

[Moonraven83]

you got a mistake:
ER Large Laser: weight 5T and have 8.5 Heat, currently better than PPC (more heat, less range
almost same dmg) and ERPPC (to hot)

Edited by Moonraven83, 05 October 2013 - 01:12 AM.

[Leeroy Mechkins]

Moonraven83, on 05 October 2013 - 01:09 AM, said:

you got a mistake:
ER Large Laser: weight 5T and have 8.5 Heat, currently better than PPC (more heat, less range
almost same dmg) and ERPPC (to hot)

Corrected with thanks.

[SmitusUrassus]

I gotta disagree with your comment on the Machine Gun and LB10X. It's typically found on mechs with a lot of ballistic points. With damage being 1/second and 0 heat, it's a beautiful short range weapon. On a mech that can hold on the enemy and in numbers, it can do a ton of damage, especially since it has a unique crit multiplier (6% for +.9 dmg, 3% for +1.8, 1% for +2.7). If you use it on, lets say, a Jaeger JM6-DD, you can have up to 6 MG's (wouldn't recommend this build) that can do 6 DPS as a standard. Against hull, remember that each shot has a 25% chance to destroy a component, 14% for 2, and about 6% for 3... So, in short, the MG is great against hull and in a steady hand... in numbers. General rule of thumb for ammo is 1 box / 2 MG's equipped. That should last you the match if you're cognizant of your range and shots.

Also, a similar crit multiplier applies to the LB10X (14% for +2dmg, 8% for +4, 3% for +6), which boasts a 2.5 second cooldown for 2 heat. I believe the crit multiplier counts as a whole shot and not each individual pellet (IE it applies to all the pellets when the math is calculated for crit), but i'm uncertain on this. In short, this weapon has the potential to be the hardest hitting weapon (1 dmg per pellet X 10 pellets X +6 crit = 60 dmg shot if all pellets hit.)

on my JM6-DD, i use a combination of MG's and 10X's and have racked up 1K dmg in the past, average being closer to 600. It's rare, but i have had instances where my 10X's have one shotted a healthy hull-exposed mech.

[Leeroy Mechkins]

I agree with your points.

I give MGs ** because they are so niche, not because they are bad. They are ***** on certain builds that use them, like Spiders.
Also, 2LBX10s are ***** on Atlas D-DCs with 3SRMs! Useful when you want to fit more SRMs but ran out of missile slots but have ballistic slots left.

[SmitusUrassus]

Fully agreed on both points. Certain mechs are at a disadvantage using either weapon at times. It's definitely about the hard points, location, and utilization of weapon groups. The D-DC Atlas is one of my mechs at the ready along with the Boar's Head, and dual 10X's are in no comparison to at least 2 SRM 6's (you get a lot more dmg / ton of ammo as well). In fact, brawler built Atlases benefit much more with an AC/20 than dual 10X's for the reasons you mentioned above.

I forgot to mention in my first post, but good guide! It definitely gives newer players a general idea of when to use and expect certain weapon types.

EDIT: Corrected my statement of "more shots / ton" to "more dmg / ton of ammo"). Each pull of the trigger for 1 weapon system equates to 15 shots per ton for the LB10X and SRM6. So yes, you do get more shots per ton on an SRM2 or 4, and yes, the 10X has the POTENTIAL to score more damage per shot than the SRM6, but it's base damage is less (10X=10dmg for a full hit vs SRM6=12dmg for full hit).

Edited by SmitusUrassus, 05 October 2013 - 02:12 AM.

[zagibu]

One downside of the AC/20 you could add is the low ammo per ton (7 shots).

An advantage of the LB10X over the SRMs is better range and less problems with hit registration. Also less spread compared to SRM6 without Artemis.

[Kjudoon]

Don't forget the crit chance with an LB10X is higher, like a machine gun as a bonus for hitting a target at 1200m.

[Bront]

The AC10 is a nice mix of range and damage, particularly since it does most of it's damage well beyond it's range. If you only have 1 ballistic slot, the AC10 is a good weapon, while the AC5 is better off mounted in pairs IMHO.

Also, the UAC5 works fine, and is superior to the AC10 and AC5 for burst damage and short DPS situations, but inferior for sustained rate of fire. the 2-3 UAC5 builds are still very deadly, but it's now a choice you need to think about rather than something that you simply did.

Also, ER Large is only 1.5 heat more than the LL, so the heat isn't that big of a deal if you can handle it (like it being the only energy weapon you mount)

[TercieI]

I think it's a mistake to group SRMs and LRMs as you have. The SRM2 and LRM20 are both poor (I personally won't mount either ever), all of the others have their place, but those places vary and the weapons can't be lumped.

Other than that, I like the list, but agree with Bront on the AC10. It's not statistically the best of the ACs, but its flexibility is worth something and it has its place, IMO.

S

[Leeroy Mechkins]

I see your points guys. See what you think of the changes to ERLL, AC10, UAC5, LBX10 and SRM2!

A note on the LRM20. Yes, in most cases it is heavy, hot and bulky.
But there is a clear but small niche on missile hardpoints which have 20 missile tubes.
A nice 20 missile alpha will swat aside AMS and quite often deliver component damage and final blows.

Edited by Leeroy Mechkins, 06 October 2013 - 06:04 PM.

[RandomLurker]

Nice to have a central place with summaries. Disagree on a few points (who wouldn't?). I'll add my own feedback and you can adjust or it'll just sit here for others to read whenever.

AC/10: An excellent weapon, but limited use in most builds due to it's weight. It's low heat, high accuracy, fast refire time and good range make it ideal for mid-range combat and decent at brawling. It tends to work best on heavier mechs with mixed hardpoints like the Victor, Dragon and some of the mediums due it's poor weight/damage ratio. Meshes extremely well with LLas or PPC, or with SRMs for brawling.

LBX-10: See AC/10, and limit it to brawling. Excellent when combine with other weapons, poor on it's own. Does increased damage to internals (via bonus damage on crit) and has high critical chance as well (chance to destroy weapons, etc), thus can leg light mechs, kill XL engines, or remove limbs in seconds. Best used combined with other weapons to strip armor, or in late-game when everyone is damaged. Note the reduced heat and 1 ton bonus compared to AC/10.

AC/5: I'd drop to ***. It requires too much sustained fire for damage to add up, restricting your use of cover. **** when boated, less when used on it's own.

LLAS: They don't do splash damage, they get dragged around. Could be confusing; might want to update your terminology. Note, laser effectiveness depends on pilot aim. For one pilot, lasers are a deadly precision scalpel, for another pilot they are obnoxious flashlights.

LPLas: Has a niche role as a light mech murderer. Instant hit registration, low duration, high damage. Only usable on heavier mechs because of weight though; LLAS usually better except in this one role.

LRM: Due to ECM proliferation, demoted to **. You won't be able to use them in their indirect function very often in the current gameplay environment. Still has value as an easy to aim mid-range weapon with Artemis increasing the chances to hit the torso.

[TercieI]

Leeroy Mechkins, on 06 October 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

I see your points guys. See what you think of the changes to ERLL, AC10, UAC5, LBX10 and SRM2!

A note on the LRM20. Yes, in most cases it is heavy, hot and bulky.
But there is a clear but small niche on missile hardpoints which have 20 missile tubes.
A nice 20 missile alpha will swat aside AMS and quite often deliver component damage and final blows.

Not to be argumentative, but LRM20s have such a wide spread, cycle so slowly and are so heavy, you're (almost?) always better off with some combination of LRM5,10&15s. I would challenge you to show a real LRM chassis whose best builds actually feature LRM20s. With weight, space, and the fact that the chassis that have 20-tube missile hard points usually also have abundant missile hard points, you run out of weight before you run out of tubes.

I actually didn't notice the stars the first time. All LRMs remain overvalued, IMO. 3 stars for 5-15, 1 for 20. And it should probably be noted that TAG is an absolute requirement if you're serious about LRMs. NARC, however, is a joke.

Also, quick typo fix: Can I get A-1 on my Steak SRMs?

S

Edited by Terciel1976, 07 October 2013 - 06:44 AM.

[Leeroy Mechkins]

OK LRMs get 4 stars not 5. ECM and tactics has limited their effectiveness. However, I cannot rate them lower as they often turn the tide of a match.

Let's agree to disagree on LRM20s. I have found them strong on some builds, but do not want to diverge into a build discussion.

No A-1 steak sauce for your Steak SRMs. Instead, put them on a Catapult A-1!

Edited by Leeroy Mechkins, 07 October 2013 - 06:43 PM.

[Kiluj]

IMHO:
ACs - best weapons (especially OP: UAC5 and AC20).
Lasers - normal.
PPC - bad, average damage and high heat.
LRMs and SRMs - weak, very weak, considering their spread.
Gauss Rifle - bad, difficult to use.
Large Pulse Laser - very bad, small distance (300m wtf?), LLs are much better (450m). Dear developers, please, give LPulseLaser the same distance as LLs.

[Nehkrosis]

You should include the PPC's ability to negate ECM.
makes them way better than how their described.

And the ER variant too

Edited by Nehkrosis, 08 October 2013 - 06:51 AM.

[DONTOR]

I like most of this, good job! With the exception of noobs being only ones affected by AC2's. If you come at a 3 or 4 AC2 mech you will get cut to ribbons, as long as the user is a good aim.

[Leeroy Mechkins]

Good points guys.
Large Pulse Lasers, PPC/ER PPC and AC2 has been updated with some of the points you raised.

[Rekkless]

LRM 20's are good in the Stalker 3h, any other mech should use 5-15's

[Leeroy Mechkins]

The number of missile tubes for each missile hardpoint are here in case anyone is looking for them.
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/
(In brackets beside the missile hardpoints in green).

That is the max number of missiles that a hardpoint can fire in one salvo.

Edited by Leeroy Mechkins, 09 October 2013 - 10:34 PM.