22 replies to this topic

[Gaan Cathal]

Right, firstly this is based on the fact that the Max Alpha system is what we have to work with, irrespective of if I or anyone else thinks it was the right route to take. It's in the game.

Here we have explanation and values for the Max Alpha system, and I'll be assuming that PGI go ahead with combining weapon families, such that for Max Alpha purposes an ERPPC and PPC are the same, as are ER, Pulse and Standard lasers, etc.

Now, firstly I'd like to point out that I think that the PPCs need a heat increase and LPL needs a decrease, but independently of that, there's very little (no in the case of the LPL) incentive to use the Large Laser family over the superior PPC family. A brief flick through the mechs on Sarna shows that multiple Large Lasers (or members of the family) isn't a drastically unusual loadout compared with multiple PPCs, and PPCs are well known for being hotter. Additionally the DoT compared with pinpoint damage relationship in MWO gives PPCs a big advantage, and even PGI's prospective 'splash PPC' idea will leave the PPC with an advantage there should it ever make it into play.

So, I'm of the opinion that it should be easier to boat/alpha Large Lasers than PPCs, however currently they are punished the same by the Max Alpha system meaning there's very little reason not to stack the frontloaded damage from the PPCs. Idea of the poll is to see if people think it should be set at 3 or 4. 4 is probably the most common LL loadout, but 3 means there's a small penalty for alphaing those.

[Corvus Antaka]

Im happy with the 2 Cap.

has not given me any significant problems. with ppc heat coming up i dont expect a buff is needed.

[NextGame]

unlimited because the system currently implemented in game stinks, but 4 would be liveable. I don't recall ever one shotting anyone in a 4 LLas mech

Edited by NextGame, 22 July 2013 - 07:53 AM.

[East Indy]

Half a second really isn't that long of a wait. Come on.

[Leafia Barrett]

East Indy, on 22 July 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

Half a second really isn't that long of a wait. Come on.

If you fire the other lasers half a second after the first, you're... still going to get the heat penalty, because half a second after the first shot, the lasers are still firing.

[Sephlock]

6.

[Eximar]

Leafia Barrett, on 22 July 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:

If you fire the other lasers half a second after the first, you're... still going to get the heat penalty, because half a second after the first shot, the lasers are still firing.

Except that you're not.

[Leafia Barrett]

Eximar, on 22 July 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

Except that you're not.

From the time that you fire to the time that the laser finishes firing, a full second has passed.

[Eximar]

Leafia Barrett, on 22 July 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

From the time that you fire to the time that the laser finishes firing, a full second has passed.

But the heat penalty is based on 0.5 seconds between shots, not when the beam ends, or the projectile hits, or anything else. Just trigger pull to trigger pull.

[Corvus Antaka]

3 could be a possibility. lets see how the ppc heat changes traction first though.

[Lightfoot]

Beam Duration needs to be cut in half or Heat Scale set to 4 Large Lasers. Heat Scale is designed for projectile styled weapons and puts an extra burden on duration styled weapons. Certainly 2 Lasers is too small for Large lasers.

[Keifomofutu]

Eximar, on 22 July 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

But the heat penalty is based on 0.5 seconds between shots, not when the beam ends, or the projectile hits, or anything else. Just trigger pull to trigger pull.

Source?

[DegeneratePervert]

4 Large Lasers is fine, I think the maximum on PPCs needs to be 3 for PPC, 2 for ERPPC.

[Eximar]

Keifomofutu, on 07 August 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:

Source?

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 06:49 PM

POPULAR
First, a little clarification:
- You do not have to wait for a weapon's cooldown cycle to fire again to avoid heat scale. The amount of time you have to wait is 0.5 seconds.

[RandomLurker]

I use LLas a lot. They are my favorite weapon. I voted for 3. It gives a good balance of alpha, versatility for multiple weapon groups, and limited raw pew (remember, lasers must be held on target, so alpha is naturally limited already).

Even better would be removing Lplas from the family and setting it on it's own. THen I'd be ok leaving it at 2.

Obligatory: Even better would be coming up with a balance system better then Ghost Heat and removing it entirely. But we all know PGI isn't creative enough to do that.

[Gaan Cathal]

Eximar, on 08 August 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

First, a little clarification:
- You do not have to wait for a weapon's cooldown cycle to fire again to avoid heat scale. The amount of time you have to wait is 0.5 seconds.

That isn't evidence of what he's talking about. Cooldown cycle is the same as recycle. Beam duration is an entirely different beast and for all other functions, the entire beam duration is "firing". Functionally, lasers fire a repeated series of low-damage shots, so yes - beam duration does matter. I'm perfectly willing to believe they've been sensible and only triggered the 0.5s heat bracket on beam start, but evidence (every other mechanic) suggests that's not the case. Particularly given the little issue with MGs sky-rocketing heat when fired in-group with a heat-producing weapon.

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 02 October 2013 - 12:43 PM.

[Eximar]

Yes it is. It doesn't matter how long the beam lasts, if you wait 0.5 seconds between trigger pulls there is no ghost heat. You can test it and see for yourself.

[RandomLurker]

Confirmed, tested in the proving grounds. Ghost heat triggers from initial trigger of laser, not the duration of the beam.

[Gaan Cathal]

Eximar, on 03 October 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

Yes it is. It doesn't matter how long the beam lasts, if you wait 0.5 seconds between trigger pulls there is no ghost heat. You can test it and see for yourself.

Interesting, and no it's not. The test showing it's trigger based is, however. But it's still not what the quote said.

DegeneratePervert, on 07 August 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:

4 Large Lasers is fine, I think the maximum on PPCs needs to be 3 for PPC, 2 for ERPPC.

Just noticed this, not really doable. PPC and ERPPC are the same weapon, for Ghost Heat purposes. Otherwise you'd be seeing 2ERPPC+2PPC cheating the ghost heat.

[WarHippy]

I would say 4, but I would be ok with 3. Four would be a 36 point alpha, but given duration length I think that would be acceptable. The limit of 2 without ghost heat is absurd.