532 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

MischiefSC, on 08 October 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

Come on, be honest. Regardless of all other balance issues most of us play this game for the pure childish fun of owning big stompy robots. Gotta catch 'em all! Whatever else happens in MWO PGI will continue to trickle out new mechs every few weeks because that's what opens wallets. More than Community Warfare, 1PV/3PV or anything else it's having the pretty pretty 50 ft tall engines of destruction that spew all the BOOM, PEW and FA-WHOOSH! you can manage and look good doing it.

Gimme Mia Hammerhands then!!!

[Zephiris]

MischiefSC, on 08 October 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

Come on, be honest. Regardless of all other balance issues most of us play this game for the pure childish fun of owning big stompy robots. Gotta catch 'em all! Whatever else happens in MWO PGI will continue to trickle out new mechs every few weeks because that's what opens wallets. More than Community Warfare, 1PV/3PV or anything else it's having the pretty pretty 50 ft tall engines of destruction that spew all the BOOM, PEW and FA-WHOOSH! you can manage and look good doing it.

you speak my mind... ^_^'

[Ngamok]

Chemie, on 07 October 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

OP: Good post but PGI is not listening. You might as well talk to the hand dude.

Fact is that ERPPC should be 11 or 12 based on the range but because of the new minimum range for PPC, they had to make it higher otherwise PPC is useless. Either way, they made ER useless. 15 heat is plain crazy.

Maybe make ER have same minimum and then make them 11 or 12 heat?

ER PPC at 11 and 12 heat is a joke and everyone and their mother will be packing them again.

CravenMadness, on 08 October 2013 - 04:56 AM, said:

Actually, repair and re-arm would be something to use as an argument against buffing ppcs again... Making it so that you have to repair those highly explosive gauss guns, or renew the ammo spent every match for the Ac's would throw an extra variable into the equation and emphasize the bonus of running energy weapons that don't require ammo and are only destroyed if you lose that body part.

No, everyone would just run 75% free ammo again.

[Mystere]

Nebelfeuer, on 07 October 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

So higher elo players and 12mans are generally still not able to counter sniperbuilds??! Guess it was extrem talent and skill that brought some of them there,was it?

Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

Thank you for making my day.

I really wonder how may self-proclaimed "high Elo" players are actually just riding on the coattails of their team mates.

[Lupus Aurelius]

Ngamok, on 08 October 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

ER PPC at 11 and 12 heat is a joke and everyone and their mother will be packing them again.

As i stated in the OP, I am advocating 12-13 heat for the ERPPCs, but if PGI is going to continue with ghost heat, the ghost heat penalty for firing more than 2 at a time probably should be increased. I never liked nor utilized the 4-6 PPC builds, or the 2 ERPPC/2 PPC builds, and ghost heat penalties need to be severe for trying to boat these.

I would prefer convergence was fixed, that the heat system would be re-vamped, and that fittings were limited by crits available for weapons in a location (i.e. - 3 energy in a left torso, but only 6 energy crits, or 2 ballistics in an arm, but only 7 ballistic crits, like in MW4). But it does not look like PGI is ever going to consider that.

[Ngamok]

Lupus Aurelius, on 08 October 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

As i stated in the OP, I am advocating 12-13 heat for the ERPPCs, but if PGI is going to continue with ghost heat, the ghost heat penalty for firing more than 2 at a time probably should be increased. I never liked nor utilized the 4-6 PPC builds, or the 2 ERPPC/2 PPC builds, and ghost heat penalties need to be severe for trying to boat these.

I would prefer convergence was fixed, that the heat system would be re-vamped, and that fittings were limited by crits available for weapons in a location (i.e. - 3 energy in a left torso, but only 6 energy crits, or 2 ballistics in an arm, but only 7 ballistic crits, like in MW4). But it does not look like PGI is ever going to consider that.

Would help the Heavies the most. If ghost heat was increased but the actual ER PPC was put down to 13, it would work great for Mediums and Lights who would mount 1 or 2. Also as I said, Heavies would benefit the most since putting 2 ER PPCs with DHS and have room for some back up weapons.

[Mystere]

Ngamok, on 08 October 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

No, everyone would just run 75% free ammo again.

A simple solution to that is to just remove free ammo.

[Bront]

Chemie, on 07 October 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

OP: Good post but PGI is not listening. You might as well talk to the hand dude.

Fact is that ERPPC should be 11 or 12 based on the range but because of the new minimum range for PPC, they had to make it higher otherwise PPC is useless. Either way, they made ER useless. 15 heat is plain crazy.

Maybe make ER have same minimum and then make them 11 or 12 heat?

Not hot enough.

Reset the minimum range to how it was pre-nerf, and set the heat back to 9 for the regular PPC, and 13.5 for the ERPPC. It's still hot, but not rediculously so, and the speed nerf means it's still not an ideal weapon. Larger mechs could mount 2 without compromising everything for heat, and the PPC becomes a viable choice (min-range makes it unviable at the moment). The biggest problem then is the already iffy LPL is again useless, that's a different subject.

[Shakespeare]

ERPPCs are NOT too hot, and reducing them further will only make them brawling weapons again. I run dual ERPPCs on my K2, and occasionally on my Stalker. You have to take off Endo in order to keep them cool enough, but they're a great, no ammo, sniper weapon and a decent emergency alpha-strike weapon too. No, you can't just tape down the button, but if you're sniping, you've got plenty of time to cool. I get 2-4 kills in my k2 with the heat as it stands.

Bring some lower heat backup weaponry, naturally. And no, you can't pack 4 of em. I wouldn't recommend the gun for brawlers, but there's a nice low heat version for that. I'm sorry to those people that lost their 'do EVERYTHING' gun, but we're in a WAY better balance place than 2 months ago, and I'd like to keep it that way.

Range, damage, or heat endurance - pick 2.

[Daekar]

ER PPCs do seem a smidgen hot to me. I would say that the best thing to do is drop the heat a little bit and kick the ghost heat mechanic up a notch for them to prevent boating.

I'm glad people realized (finally) that boating just kills the game. It's not elite, it's not skilled, it's not smart, it's just no fun. Point+Click+Boom makes you a loser, not a winner, regardless of what the scoreboard says.

It's funny that people complain about heat so much, because it has done EXACTLY what I hoped - forced diversity of builds and cut the alpha spam a bit. If SRM hit mechanics were a bit better and pugs knew how to spot for LRMs, we'd see a full gambit of weapons. As it is, we're seeing ballistics AND energy weapons combined, because heat will not allow too many energy weapons and weight/space won't allow too many ballistics.

All they need to do is to get missiles dialed in properly (don't ask me how, I don't know) and we'll be good to go.

[Gaan Cathal]

Daekar, on 08 October 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

I'm glad people realized (finally) that boating just kills the game. It's not elite, it's not skilled, it's not smart, it's just no fun. Point+Click+Boom makes you a loser, not a winner, regardless of what the scoreboard says.

Better hop in your time machine and go back to the '80s to tell the BTech designers to scrap a good third of their mech concepts then.

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 08 October 2013 - 01:47 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

Gaan Cathal, on 08 October 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

Better hop in your time machine and go back to the '80s to tell the BTech designers to scrap a good third of their mech concepts then.

Another tale another time

[CravenMadness]

Mystere, on 08 October 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

A simple solution to that is to just remove free ammo.

Yeup... None of that free ammo ****, which was basically from the sounds of it just a way for the closed beta testers to play around with repair and re-arm without actually having to spend their 'hard earned' c-bills.

Take away the seventy five percent free ammo, and boom. Instant mega-perk for all energy weapons. No accidentally launching with ten rounds in your ammo boxes, or one volley of missiles in the tubes, where as anyone that uses ammo will have to pay for it one way or another. Wa-la, huge heat makes much more tangible sense.

[Daekar]

Gaan Cathal, on 08 October 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

Better hop in your time machine and go back to the '80s to tell the BTech designers to scrap a good third of their mech concepts then.

Ummm... no. If you'd ever played actual TT, you'd know that it wasn't an issue with original BT because there was no way except by EXTREME luck to get all your weapons to hit the same place on a mech. Heck, often you couldn't even get all your weapons to HIT, let alone hit the same location. Weapons convergence changes the game, period.

[Ngamok]

Mystere, on 08 October 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

A simple solution to that is to just remove free ammo.

Then everyone would run Energy.

[CravenMadness]

Not if you want the benefits that Ac's (apparently) bring.

[Khobai]

Quote

ERPPCs are NOT too hot, and reducing them further will only make them brawling weapons again.

Whoever gave you the notion they werent supposed to be brawling weapons? Is that something you came up with on your own? Because in battletech they are brawling weapons.

[Karl Streiger]

Khobai, on 08 October 2013 - 06:22 PM, said:

Whoever gave you the notion they werent supposed to be brawling weapons? Is that something you came up with on your own? Because in battletech they are brawling weapons.

in TT ER-PPCs are multifunctional weapons - they perform better at any range - and in comparison with the standard PPC much more over the top. Here in MWO - althoug its a pitty that the range brackets don't have bigger impact, the ER-PPC has its nice -> above 600m.

You can have 2 ER-PPCs and if you try to keep them cool your a fool - instead of wasting crits and tons for more heatsink you should think - how long is my Window of Engagement at long range - cool the ER-Peps for that time frame...additional room and place could be used for secondary armament.

Look if you reduce cooldown back towards 12 or 13 - you have again a weapon for everything, for brawling and sniping - no needs for MLAS or AC 5s or LBX ....all you need is the Defiance 1001.
If you like it or not - currently the ER-PPC is balanced. This discussion alone is proof.

[Gaan Cathal]

Daekar, on 08 October 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

Ummm... no. If you'd ever played actual TT, you'd know that it wasn't an issue with original BT because there was no way except by EXTREME luck to get all your weapons to hit the same place on a mech. Heck, often you couldn't even get all your weapons to HIT, let alone hit the same location. Weapons convergence changes the game, period.

Then is the problem boating or perfect pinpoint? (hint: you can get high pinpoint alphas without using all identical weapons)

[Samziel]

How ironic that this post is ''hot''.