532 replies to this topic

[Gorgo7]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 February 2014 - 05:42 AM, said:

Don't care. The game is based in the CBT Universe, is Using CBT weapons and Combat vehicles. So you play a game based on CBT you follow CBT rules closely. MechWarrior is part of the franchise, named after the guy driving a Mech. You don't go into SWTOR and say Jedi need to be allowed blasters. PPCs are the hottest running weapon in the game. They are supposed to be punishing if used without restriction. PPCs are perfect.

Coming from a cannon meta player....
Who'd a thunk it?
Climb down off your high horse.
Run an energy build with ERPPC's (yes, plural, not one in a spider with machine guns), no cannons, no missles. Then report back as a convert.

Happy hunting!

[Bishop Steiner]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 February 2014 - 05:42 AM, said:

Don't care. The game is based in the CBT Universe, is Using CBT weapons and Combat vehicles. So you play a game based on CBT you follow CBT rules closely. MechWarrior is part of the franchise, named after the guy driving a Mech. You don't go into SWTOR and say Jedi need to be allowed blasters. PPCs are the hottest running weapon in the game. They are supposed to be punishing if used without restriction. PPCs are perfect.

correct.

When one is playing a game based off of a storied IP, one is constrained, within reason by the "rules" of that IP. Otherwise there is no point to using the IP at all. Just as "I Robot" and "I am Legend" had nothing in common with the IPs the title was taken from, turning MW titles into "Generic MECH FFPS" is not the correct path. For one, if all you want is "Generic MEch FPS" we have plenty... like Hawken.....(God is that even still active, lol?)

Gorgo7, on 07 February 2014 - 06:36 AM, said:

Coming from a cannon meta player....
Who'd a thunk it?
Climb down off your high horse.
Run an energy build with ERPPC's (yes, plural, not one in a spider with machine guns), no cannons, no missles. Then report back as a convert.

Happy hunting!

Thing is you can have it both ways in this case. They should be high heat, that is canon, but as you point out, they should also be manageable (though at high cost) which is, ALSO, as it happens, canon. My bigger concern is the papercut damage suggestions people keep posting, which is the type of deviation from canon that will sink this game.

[Joseph Mallan]

Gorgo7, on 07 February 2014 - 06:36 AM, said:

Coming from a cannon meta player....
Who'd a thunk it?
Climb down off your high horse.
Run an energy build with ERPPC's (yes, plural, not one in a spider with machine guns), no cannons, no missles. Then report back as a convert.

Happy hunting!

Sorry? I only use one Meta(every weapon type allowed on my Mech). Lets see, So a Spider with a ERPPC... which woul be similar to a Panther with a ERPPC, which ran kinda hot if you jumped an fired the PPC? The problem isn't the heat of the PPCS. It is the fail of the heat sink system we have. 2 ERPPCs should be heat neutral with 30 singles or 15 doubles. If that is not working as intended then our heat system requires an overhaul. The ERPPC is fine sinks are not.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 07 February 2014 - 07:42 AM.

[Roland]

I use ppcs on essentially every mech I run. While the heat increase made it harder to use them, I cannot in good conscience say that they are even remotely underpowered.

They can't be considered too hot, if with their current stats they are a dominant weapon in the game. It makes no sense to buff one of the most commonly used weapons.

[Artgathan]

On the subject of DHS -

If you do the math, you'll see that (with a fully mastered mech) you actually have DHS that work better that the TT DHS until you hit 18 DHS (10 engine + 8 external). At this point the MWO DHS are dissipating 3.588 heat/second, while the TT DHS are dissipating 3.6 heat/second. At 17 DHS, the MWO DHS are shunting 3.427 heat/second, compared to TT's 3.4.

[Damocles]

Map heat -> the new (old) Ghost Heat

[Corvus Antaka]

Gorgo7, on 07 February 2014 - 05:28 AM, said:

Wrong. The 9M comes equiped with three ERPPC's as stock. Check Smurfiy's.
Yaking about a spider with a single ERPPC is meaningless. In fact, the stalker you speak of I doubt you play much since the heat nerf, esp. given the way you rhapsodised about the spider. I think you're talking through your hat.
The ERPPC is too hot.

STALKER STK-3H 102 54 48 1.13 117 44 2.66 33,916 99,639 10:40:55

Those are my quad ERPPC stalker stats. I am happy to allow a PGI staffer to validate that since I've owned this mech it has been running quad ERPPC for 90%+ of it's matches, and that I still do run it.

Just because you can not imagine something to be possible, does not make it so.

You are however correct on the 3 ERPPC awesome.

FYI I run my awesome with 3ERPPC and 3 streaks and that works just fine for me too.

Incase you do not know, if you fire 1/2 or 2/2 with the ERPPC you do not take ghost heat penalties.

This is what good pilots do to see success with these mechs. Don't alpha johnny!!!

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 08 February 2014 - 02:34 AM.

[Gladewolf]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 February 2014 - 06:41 AM, said:

Sorry? I only use one Meta(every weapon type allowed on my Mech). Lets see, So a Spider with a ERPPC... which woul be similar to a Panther with a ERPPC, which ran kinda hot if you jumped an fired the PPC? The problem isn't the heat of the PPCS. It is the fail of the heat sink system we have. 2 ERPPCs should be heat neutral with 30 singles or 15 doubles. If that is not working as intended then our heat system requires an overhaul. The ERPPC is fine sinks are not.

A sensible heat system would make everything ok....... <Rocks back and forth> Not only would it fix the ERPPC issue, it would also force much more responsible mech building practices in general...AND make single heat sinks viable....but if PGI won't fix the heat system....most energy weapons need a bit of assistance.

[Cyborne Elemental]

I can't snipe at 1300 meters with AC-10 vs fast or medium speed targets, can you?

I can't put 3x AC10 on any mech either even if I wanted to, the only thing that comes close is the CTX that can mount 3x Gauss which you have to spend MC $$ on, and even then if you look at the build its a pretty weak setup compared to any run of the mill PPC loadout.

Personally, I feel that Ghost heat needs to go BYE BYE, heat values need to be adjusted fairly across all weapons (in most cases raise the heat) and start implementing real consequences for Engine heat overloads such as burning out weapons or self destructing heatsinks and movement penalties after taking engine damage from severe overloads.

There needs to be alot more intricate method of dealing with each weapon's heat, instead of just a general and simplified system wide nerf that Ghost heat applies, I just can't think of how to actually do it off the top of my head.

Just throwing DPS values out there isn't a perfect method either when comparing weapons, for instance comparing AC-10 and AC-20 damage values to ERPPC, you can't snipe with the AC's at anywhere near the range of the PPC's, and you can't track fast moving targets with the same ease as you can with a high velocity or Point-Point energy weapons.

We need some real genius ideas to balance things out properly, but I'm pretty sure that the continued nerfing of everything except the problem, isn't the solution.

Edited by Mister D, 07 February 2014 - 11:11 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

Eh, Ghost Heat is fine in that is accomplished what the devs wanted it to do. You either have to fire smaller groups of weapons, which spreads damage and slows combat, or you pay the price which slows combat. It doesn't solve pin point accurace and it wasn't intended to do so. As Pada said earlier, you can still play the quad PPC stalker if you want. But, you can't go alpha crazy like you could before. Yes, the heat increase helped with that but so did the GH implimentation AND we didn't go from quad PPCs to quintuple Lrg Laser boats. It is pretty or easy to understand or even documented somewhere? No but it is in game and we all deal with it.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mister D, on 07 February 2014 - 11:06 AM, said:

I can't snipe at 1300 meters with AC-10 vs fast or medium speed targets, can you?

I can't put 3x AC10 on any mech either even if I wanted to, the only thing that comes close is the CTX that can mount 3x Gauss which you have to spend MC $$ on, and even then if you look at the build its a pretty weak setup compared to any run of the mill PPC loadout.

Personally, I feel that Ghost heat needs to go BYE BYE, heat values need to be adjusted fairly across all weapons (in most cases raise the heat) and start implementing real consequences for Engine heat overloads such as burning out weapons or self destructing heatsinks and movement penalties after taking engine damage from severe overloads.

There needs to be alot more intricate method of dealing with each weapon's heat, instead of just a general and simplified system wide nerf that Ghost heat applies, I just can't think of how to actually do it off the top of my head.

Just throwing DPS values out there isn't a perfect method either when comparing weapons, for instance comparing AC-10 and AC-20 damage values to ERPPC, you can't snipe with the AC's at anywhere near the range of the PPC's, and you can't track fast moving targets with the same ease as you can with a high velocity or Point-Point energy weapons.

We need some real genius ideas to balance things out properly, but I'm pretty sure that the continued nerfing of everything except the problem, isn't the solution.

TT you couldn't even do it past 500Meters.

Actual heat effects would be good to me as well. I get to hot my ammo should have the chance to cook off.

[Trauglodyte]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 February 2014 - 11:16 AM, said:

TT you couldn't even do it past 500Meters.

Actual heat effects would be good to me as well. I get to hot my ammo should have the chance to cook off.

You can't do that, Mal. People would quit in droves if that happened. People are already on different sides about whether we should or shouldn't have pin point damage, whether PPCs and ACs should be spreadable, the power of JJs, ECM, GH, etc. This game is populated mostly by a bunch of monkeys that want to spam buttons all day long without repercussions. Hell, some people ***** about not having enough ammo all while disregarding the fact that they run out of ammo by spraying crap all over the place and accomplishing nothing. You actually want these same people to cook off cause they already don't manage their heat? LOL, it would be priceless to see people die in waves of stupidity.

If you could figure out a way for them to cook off in real life so as to save the gene pool from being further soiled, then we have a deal.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 07 February 2014 - 11:37 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Trauglodyte, on 07 February 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

You can't do that, Mal. People would quit in droves if that happened. People are already on different sides about whether we should or shouldn't have pin point damage, whether PPCs and ACs should be spreadable, the power of JJs, ECM, GH, etc. This game is populated mostly by a bunch of monkeys that want to spam buttons all day long without repercussions. Hell, some people ***** about not having enough ammo all while disregarding the fact that they run out of ammo by spraying crap all over the place and accomplishing nothing. You actually want these same people to cook off cause they already don't manage their heat? LOL, it would be priceless to see people die in waves of stupidity.

If you could figure out a way for them to cook off in real life so as to save the gene pool from being further soiled, then we have a deal.

So you already understand why I must say yes!

As to the how... Give 'em a loaded S.A.W. out in 29 stumps... leave 'em sit there fr a few hours. I heard it was all that was needed.

I personally missed out on the Desert Warfare Training, so I never saw it happen first hand.