54 replies to this topic

[Tyman4]

1) Boating is a reasonable tactic in combat, it is specialization of roles within combat. (Role based Play)

2) Boating and the dynamics of the resulting gameplay are BETTER for immersion in the game.

I like piloting light mechs. I have several, and the most exciting times I remember with these mechs is when I square off one on one with a larger mech that is designed for example as a missle boat. My job as a light is to scout and to mess up formations of the opposing teams. (IE. jenner chasing. You know where half your team of heavies chase one guy to kingdom come and back while everyone else dies.) The most exciting and immersive times in this game is when you realize that the mech over the next hill WILL ONE SHOT you given half a chance. (4-6 ppc stalker etc) Now you have to carefully think, what is his situation; what is your situation; can you safely move to attack him or will you be surrounded if you try. THIS IMO is immersion in the game.

To Clarify, I don't want assaults to be destroyed as they move around (at least not in one hit), but I would like for them to need to think IF they can resonably close the distance without dying. Honestly I'm really tired of the biggest blob of people winning. Currently, (W/O premade cooridination levels) flanking is pretty often irrelavant and simply a good way to commiting mass suicide.

Finally, I would like ghost heat to go die in a small corner. The ERPPC and PPC are sufficiently nerfed already with the high heat values they currently have. Now that damage has become fairly stable, can we reintroduce boating by eliminating ghost heat.

Agree or disagree.

[Khobai]

Boating is fine. Theres plenty of canon mechs that boat weapons and theyre not unbalanced.

Where MWO went wrong is not redistributing armor values in response to allowing precise aiming of weapons.

[Relic1701]

Plenty of boats in canon, just not in this game.

And to answer your question, yes, boating ruins the immersion for me.

Edited by Relic1701, 07 October 2013 - 12:58 PM.

[Blacksoul1987]

it ruins immersion when everybody is boating in BT there were boats and mixed loadout mechs with mixed loadouts being much more common and that is the way it is now. Got tired of playing mw4 for years with everybody using the same loadout on their mechs. in battletech both were viable boats filled a role as you say but mixed loadouts were general purpose but the problem was that boats are soooo much easier to use than re adjusting your aim for each individual weapon that everyone just boated.

[Eddrick]

There is more diversity now then there ever was in the 10 months I have played. I don't care if Ghost Heat is ever removed or not. Without Ghost Heat, a lot of people want to Alpha Boat a single weapon system. Which, specializes them to an extreme and leaves them very vulnerable to the weaknesses of the said weapon, as well. I find myself being better with a mixed setup. I do good at being a "Jack of all trades/Master of none". I like the freedom it gives me to change tactics and be ready for any situation. Which, is a good thing with how PUGs tend to be unreliable teammates. A balanced setup would shine most in a Free-for-all mode.

[Tyman4]

I don't want boating to be the only viable approach, but it should also be an available tactic; a gambit. If someone makes a streak cat, I don't want him to have a handicap to simply use the available weapons, ghost heat etc. However, the build itself has created a handicap, his range. Similarly the splat-cat or streak/splat kintaro or the ppc awesomes.

If the player wishes to reduce these handicaps from the build he must make the build less specific, ie replacing some of the missles for other equipment to allow for more diverse damage dealing. I believe this improves the depth of the game because players will respond to information from the battlefield, possibly switching prime targets or changing positions. It is this thinking that immerses the player IMO.

I have to say: I don't see any diversity. Everyone has the same stuff. A couple of med lazers a couple large a few srms a few lrms, and usually an ac20. The build itself is the same all over the place. For instance, most atlas that I see have AC20 2-3SRM6 and med lazer to fill out. My orion has an identical build. The most common highlander build currently is PPC and AC20. It is prohibitive in terms of gamplay dynamics and execution. It reduces the need to have ROLES in this game. So I say, if a jagger wants 2 ac20's fine, but my 4 ppc stalker might snipe his either slow or low armor butt. Alternatively, if the jagger flanks the Stalker, boy his *** is grass. Now throw in everyone's ubiquitous "balanced" mech, and he can defend and support the stalker, or scout and cover the jagger. That is a ROLE. Forcing everyone to take said balanced mech is pretty boring IMO

Edited by Tyman4, 07 October 2013 - 01:53 PM.

[East Indy]

You can boat and you can alpha, but now they come at a price.

Firing four LRM-15s? Lots of fun for me, not so much for the direct-fire opponent. That's why it's fair that I can only do that twice before kettle-cooking.

[Sybreed]

poll is really badly phrased

[christophermx4]

Let's face it: a 4 PPC Stalker or other massive boats are simply too powerful. Everyone loves to rag on PGI for having a broken balance system, but the reality is that Mech Warrior is unbalanced to being with. It has the gameplay of a FPS with the mechanics of a simulator. What makes this game stand out is that you don't get annihilated in a split second like other twitch based shooters.

I wouldn't mind ghost heat if it was communicated properly. Right now, at least in the mech lab, it's a guessing game which combo of weapons will melt you down. They fix that, and I think PGI will have resolved this issue.

[Team Leader]

No, but only because NOTHING immerses you in the game. We were promised weather effects on the cockpit glass, the return of knockdown, etc, meanwhile, a year later...

A billion percent on board with getting rid of ghost heat, though.
Guys, he's more like asking if huge one shot kills immerse you, reinforcing the fragility of your one life per round. Not just boating stuff in general. It's not an amazingly worded poll.

[Radbane]

I've heard that CPLT's boat LRM's ... one time to many. How do they boat LRM's? Well, by adding a launcher to each of the LRM boxes they come with. They really can't afford much more because of weight.

So I run a dual LRM20s on my C4, and a dual LRM15s on my C1 ... pretty canon and immersive if you ask me. But the forums cried "I'm on a boat" ... so now I'm pretty much nerfed to glance a few mechs before the light kings of battle swarm.

[Asyres]

Boating has no effect on my immersion, positive or negative. Pretty amused by the suggestion that a 6 PPC stalker was/is threatening, though.

You know what immersion element I miss? Glowing eyes on the Atlas. That scared the bajeezus out of me back in the day.

[Tyman4]

christophermx4, on 07 October 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

Let's face it: a 4 PPC Stalker or other massive boats are simply too powerful. Everyone loves to rag on PGI for having a broken balance system, but the reality is that Mech Warrior is unbalanced to being with. It has the gameplay of a FPS with the mechanics of a simulator. What makes this game stand out is that you don't get annihilated in a split second like other twitch based shooters.

I disagree, they are not too powerful, they are a specific tactic in the game. If someone wants to carry it so be it. It's like taking a high power bolt action rifle onto a battlefield; low rate of fire very high damage. If you have scouts, and don't just wander the battlefield bold as brass; you will find him flank him close the distance and do un-nameable things to his skull (crouching mechs wink wink). Also, with the heat PPCs have now, we can do away with the ghost heat. The Stalker will still need to spend alot of time cooling.

But more on the topic, does knowing he is out there make you pay more attention to what you are doing, does it scare you in the game, does it immerse you in the game. The best recent one I had was in my spider (yeah I know they are broken so sue me). I had a badly damaged side torso, but otherwise okay. I found a firebrand with an open rear side torso trying to cap our base. A quick look he has 2 ppc (no problem just get within 90 meter) and 2 UAC5 ({Scrap}, he might still have ammo for those and jaggers are very flexible opponents) His mech is painted so I know it is likely a seasoned player who will not easily panic at the sight of a light mech, and he is probably carrying an XL. So I go in, knowing that Either I will get his side torso and maybe he has an XL or his UAC's will tear out my chest. Engage. Now its a knife fight, he wisely throws into full reverse and starts twisting to get a bead on me, I use my JJ's to avoid and precision turn, always aiming for his back. I switch tactics, throw my mech into reverse and try to stay exactly behind his mech while both of us reverse. Not an easy thing to do, as many light mechs will attest because the opponents usually pull a 360 at that point. I get one ERPPC into his torso, lucky me I was right. NOW THAT WAS EXCITING!! That is what I miss from not having Boats in the game. The do or die moments. All to often I feel that people just walk into the fight. Does anyone else feel that way? The moment of O SWEET JESUS there is a 6ppc stalker just over that hill. or OMG there are two LRM boats from hell on the enemy team. Now how do I BEAT THEM. That is EXCITMENT. That is what I want. Does anyone else feel that way?

Feel free to leave any cool stories you remember the DEVs might even read them

Apologies? for the Pole title. I know its not properly worded, but I couldn't think of a consice way to write it ;P

Edited by Tyman4, 07 October 2013 - 02:24 PM.

[Homeless Bill]

I just wanted to stop in and tell you that your poll is bad. Don't even bother making a poll of it's going to be heavily biased. It doesn't help get your point across; it just makes you look like a {Richard Cameron} that can't accept any other opinion.

Edit: And you liked your own post. Stahp.

Edited by Homeless Bill, 07 October 2013 - 08:52 PM.

[FupDup]

[Roadbeer]

Biased poll is biased

[Lightfoot]

Most players don't realize how innate boating is in Battletech. It should be just a tactical decision the pilot/player makes because in Battletech the mechs are everything from 6xER Large Laser boats to mechs that mix all three weapon types evenly. It's all canon and up to the player. Mechs carry banks of weapons and use group-fire to maximize accuracy over time.

One of two things has to go. Ghost Heat or DHS 1.4. If we have Ghost Heat we should have full DHS 2.0 to allow players to balance the heat build-up. You shouldn't just shutdown from firing a few lasers or PPCs with no control over it, you should be able to time the heatsinking in a battle-logical way.



.

Edited by Lightfoot, 07 October 2013 - 08:13 PM.

[nemesis271989]

Ghost Heat Must be!!!!! Because of small kids that tend to destroy any game.

[Gozer]

The Awesome is a canonical boat. Unfortunately I really can't boat it even with just 3 PPC's as it shuts down so bloody easily. Even chain firing only delays the shutdown.

So yeah poor Staypuft Awesome doesn't get much time under current PPC settings. *Sigh*

[Deathlike]

The poll is bad and you should feel bad.

Boating is natural, but let's be honest that there really is built in efficiency to making sure you don't have to worry about various ranges, aiming, and so many other terribad stuff that occur with putting together mechs that different weaponry.

The only way to "reduce" boating is having more variety in weapons... something that Koniving has championed for that would still "boat" but have more distinct characteristics of weapons..

In any case, boating is natural and anyone who doesn't understand the simple synergy in that is a fool.