54 replies to this topic

[KhanHeir]

Khobai, on 07 October 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

Boating is fine. Theres plenty of canon mechs that boat weapons and theyre not unbalanced.

Where MWO went wrong is not redistributing armor values in response to allowing precise aiming of weapons.

Hardpoints, lack thereof.


MWO has reached a point where mechs are now overlapping each other in variants, especially the phoenix mechs.

[Almond Brown]

Lightfoot, on 07 October 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

stuff

You shouldn't just shutdown from firing a few lasers or PPCs with no control over it, you should be able to time the heatsinking in a battle-logical way.

LOL! No control over it? Good one. LOL! Let go of the f'ing trigger every now and again and you gain complete control.

No control. LOL!

[Zyllos]

Not redistributing armor, lack of restricting hardpoints, and pin point accuracy all are some VERY big problems with the MWO core game.

[Kahoumono]

Boating itself makes perfect sense, how all weapons have perfect convergence is absolutely r-tarded and there in lies the problem. However, ghost heat fixes all which is just as sad.

Edited by Kahoumono, 09 October 2013 - 06:58 AM.

[3rdworld]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 October 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

So what are players going to do when we run into OmniMechs? Or some of the 2nd Line boats the Clans use? Asking the DEVs to stop US from making boats when they are in the Canon already.


3 variants... it fits the requirements!

We have no idea what they are going to do to Clan mechs, they already said something along the lines of them being heavily lowered in strength as to not invalidate IS mechs (the truth of this not withstanding).

Unfortunately 2&3 are 3053 & 3054 respectively.

It was my favorite assault for my Jade Falcon CCG deck. I has a sad.

[Joseph Mallan]

3rdworld, on 09 October 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

We have no idea what they are going to do to Clan mechs, they already said something along the lines of them being heavily lowered in strength as to not invalidate IS mechs (the truth of this not withstanding).

Unfortunately 2&3 are 3053 & 3054 respectively.

It was my favorite assault for my Jade Falcon CCG deck. I has a sad.

Citation please? There is no indication of the 2 & 3 being a actual 3055 release... is it on the Record sheet?

[3rdworld]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 October 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

Citation please? There is no indication of the 2 & 3 being a actual 3055 release... is it on the Record sheet?

According to Sarna and SSW they are on RS 3055u.

Says something about first being on RS 3058, but later amended to be placed on 3055 with the 3055u phoenix mechs.

I don't really care that much. Those are just the Dates that Solaris Skunk Werks lists as availability, citing 3055u.

Edited by 3rdworld, 09 October 2013 - 08:19 AM.

[Adridos]

I've said it a hundred times already and I'll say it again:

Boating does make complete sense. The way warfare works, you want to be able to kill the other guy faster, for higher range and with less personal skill involved. That's why we're putting targeting computers and such everywhere, since it means we don't have to school soldiers on how to fire X gun for 20 years and have them do it less effectively than a computer would.

Mechs, however, do not make sense. If you want them to have a marginal chance of making sense, you must use tools that don't make sense. That's where the fun comes from.

Yes, it would make sense just to aim a Tomahawk at the cockpit of a mech and fire it. That's boating, it makes sense from a military standpoint and completely obsoletes something that does not.

However, if I'm playing a game where I'm supposed to be a guy in shorts piloting a massive machine of doom that is able to shrug off a battalion of tanks, then I want to feel like I'm doing that. If I wanted a real warfare simulation, I'd play ArmA instead.

Another example would be Tribes. Does it make sense to use projectile weapons? **** No. We switched to firearms for a very good reason. However, Tribes is what Tribes is and that projectile weapon aiming mixed with the massive mobility of players is where all the fun is coming from. Add real weapons (boats) and you kill that fun and can't understand why the game's loosing so many players (yes, I'm talking about Ascend now).

Edited by Adridos, 09 October 2013 - 08:48 AM.

[mike29tw]

I'd prefer they don't mess with convergence. Any attempt to take away player control will only further dumb down the game and make the game play dull.

1) Make ACs fire multiple projectiles in quick succession for each rounds (think MW3).
2) Do a complete overhaul of the heat system. Lower heat capacity, real DHS, and various of heat penalty based on the heat scale. High heat weapons are forced to chainfire without resorting to ghost heat.

[FupDup]

Adridos, on 09 October 2013 - 08:44 AM, said:

...
However, if I'm playing a game where I'm supposed to be a guy in shorts piloting a massive machine of doom that is able to shrug off a battalion of tanks, then I want to feel like I'm doing that. If I wanted a real warfare simulation, I'd play ArmA instead.
...

You seem to be implying that people carrying more than 1 weapon system somehow fulfills condition. It doesn't. Mixed builds like Atlas/Victor brawlers kill just as fast as boats most of the time. Boats only kill faster when the weapon being boated is overpowered individually, such as what we have seen with the PPC meta (very few effective counters to them prior to the heat increase and projectile speed decrease).

The only difference is a playstyle choice: do you want to be really good at one task but risk being vulnerable to countering, OR do you want to be useful in all situations but vulnerable against an enemy specialist if you are within his preferred range bracket?

[Adridos]

FupDup, on 09 October 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

The only difference is a playstyle choice: do you want to be really good at one task but risk being vulnerable to countering, OR do you want to be useful in all situations but vulnerable against an enemy specialist if you are within his preferred range bracket?

The problem is, this is actually translated as: "Do you want to be good at one situation and suck at the rest, or do you want to suck at all of them equally?"

A decent boat shreds any non-boat. Of course, you can get away with it in pug matches, where said boat doesn't know where's left and where's right, but the reality of the situation is a bit different.

[FupDup]

Adridos, on 09 October 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

The problem is, this is actually translated as: "Do you want to be good at one situation and suck at the rest, or do you want to suck at all of them equally?"

A decent boat shreds any non-boat. Of course, you can get away with it in pug matches, where said boat doesn't know where's left and where's right, but the reality of the situation is a bit different.

If you stay within the boat's effective range bracket, yes that's what happens. But if you get within the boat's range of weakness...not so much. For instance, an SRM or SSRM boat is utterly useless if you are more than 270 meters away from him. An LRM boat is defenseless if you get within 180 meters, or if you have really good cover you can hillhump it to death at range without taking much damage. Boats carrying standard PPCs are now unable to deal damage if you get within 90 meters of them. People boating lasers have the issue of damage spreading, particularly if you have cover handy and/or can move really fast.

Well-balanced weapons are not overpowered when boated because the weaknesses of the individual weapon are magnified when boated (i.e. LRM min range of 180m matters a lot more if they are the only weapon you're carrying). Yes, boating also magnifies the strengths of weapons, but it's up to the mechwarrior to figure out the enemy's weaknesses and avoid the enemy's strengths.

Edited by FupDup, 09 October 2013 - 09:46 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

3rdworld, on 09 October 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

According to Sarna and SSW they are on RS 3055u.

Says something about first being on RS 3058, but later amended to be placed on 3055 with the 3055u phoenix mechs.

I don't really care that much. Those are just the Dates that Solaris Skunk Werks lists as availability, citing 3055u.

Must be from 3055 Updates. I have 3055 Upgrades On CD and there is no mention of of when 2 & 3 were launched. I was pretty vocal at the CBT DEVs cause they put out an original/Update/ Upgrade of pretty much all the TROs. So f its from a Record sheet I can roll with that, but depending on which TRO Version it was taken from... It could be suspect. All the same, My Daughter was rolling death in a Bane3!

[3rdworld]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 October 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

Must be from 3055 Updates. I have 3055 Upgrades On CD and there is no mention of of when 2 & 3 were launched. I was pretty vocal at the CBT DEVs cause they put out an original/Update/ Upgrade of pretty much all the TROs. So f its from a Record sheet I can roll with that, but depending on which TRO Version it was taken from... It could be suspect. All the same, My Daughter was rolling death in a Bane3!

It lists it as 3055Uu.

Perhaps it means something to you, gibberish to me.

[AlmightyAeng]

Asyres, on 07 October 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

Boating has no effect on my immersion, positive or negative. Pretty amused by the suggestion that a 6 PPC stalker was/is threatening, though.

You know what immersion element I miss? Glowing eyes on the Atlas. That scared the bajeezus out of me back in the day.

I agree...vote at the link on my sig. Shameless plug, don't care, return the glowing eyes!