79 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

AlexEss, on 08 October 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

Says who...? Scale have always been a mess in BT.

In BT, you couldn't manually aim your weapons into one location, and BT was always about bigger is better in most circumstances.

[CygnusX7]

FupDup, on 08 October 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

If you look at the SH and BM pictures individually, you'll see that both of them are slightly taller than the top of the garage they are standing next to. As such, their heights are fairly close.

POV of the screenshot is higher for the BM.
Makes it seem shorter than it is, compounding it.

I'm not saying it wont be just as tall but I think sizing the platform in each image tot he same size tells the story better than looking at the 2 images separately.

Edited by CygnusX7, 08 October 2013 - 01:09 PM.

[FupDup]

CygnusX7, on 08 October 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

POV of the screenshot is higher for the BM.

Whatever the PoV is, it's easy to tell that the shoulders of the BM go slightly over the garage. The SH is closer to the garage so it's easier to distinguish as also being taller than the garage.

Edited by FupDup, 08 October 2013 - 01:11 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 08 October 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

One can only hope they would scale mediums that well. From the screenies taken above of Kintaros and Cataphracts, there isn't much hope of PGI being this generous.

If you look at the SH and BM pictures individually, you'll see that both of them are slightly taller than the top of the garage they are standing next to. As such, their heights are fairly close.

problem is, neither mech screeny is taken form another mechs POV, or even from the exact same locations, so due to perspective changes, they are, sadly, useless as references.

[AlexEss]

FupDup, on 08 October 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

In BT, you couldn't manually aim your weapons into one location, and BT was always about bigger is better in most circumstances.

And thus we can agree to disagree... I like my mediums to have some mass, and you want them to be as streamlined and opted as they can in order to provide the least target mass.

Problem is that in my mind your approach would have all mechs being a fixed size based on tonnage.. Next step after that is having them all being a set of boxes.

[Bishop Steiner]

hopeful hitbox projection........

[FupDup]

AlexEss, on 08 October 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

And thus we can agree to disagree... I like my mediums to have some mass, and you want them to be as streamlined and opted as they can in order to provide the least target mass.

Having some mass doesn't increase their effectiveness. In fact, it makes them less effective, and puts them into more direct competition with heavies...a competition which they generally aren't gonna win. Of course, this lines up perfectly with PGI's new philosophy of "top tier avatars."

AlexEss, on 08 October 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

Problem is that in my mind your approach would have all mechs being a fixed size based on tonnage..

Nobody said mechs being an exact number of pixels based on weight, it's just the general idea of more armor and guns = bigger mech. None of them will be the "exact" same height, just within a range.

AlexEss, on 08 October 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

Next step after that is having them all being a set of boxes.

Slippery slope fallacy.

Edited by FupDup, 08 October 2013 - 01:17 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 October 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

hopeful hitbox projection........

whilst it would be the death of XL use, that is fine for me on the Phoenix Mechs as NONE of them were designed with the XL in mind anyhow. As long as their CT is survivable, they will be OK>

[AlexEss]

not to shabby i think.. maybe the CT will be a bit wider and the "shoulders joint" will be part of the ST

[AlexEss]

FupDup, on 08 October 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

Having some mass doesn't increase their effectiveness. In fact, it makes them less effective, and puts them into more direct competition with heavies...a competition which they generally aren't gonna win. Of course, this lines up perfectly with PGI's new philosophy of "top tier avatars."



Nobody said mechs being an exact number of pixels based on weight, it's just the general idea of more armor and guns = bigger mech.



Slippery slope fallacy.

Did i ever speak of effectiveness, nope. As for the "top tier" stuff... Not sure you really grasped what he was talking about.

But you are in fact talking about just that... And going by that logic my Jenner should be as large if not bigger then some Mediums.

Ofc it is... Had to give you something real to complain about

[Barantor]

Big head due to the missile launcher being in the head.

[ShadowbaneX]

nice...still, where's the concept art?

[Asyres]

ShadowbaneX, on 08 October 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

nice...still, where's the concept art?

On the Phoenix page. Where it's been for months.

[Bishop Steiner]

ShadowbaneX, on 08 October 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

nice...still, where's the concept art?

um, been postedunder project phoenix, on the home page for months.

Asyres, on 08 October 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

On the Phoenix page. Where it's been for months.

ninja'd

[FupDup]

AlexEss, on 08 October 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

Did i ever speak of effectiveness, nope. As for the "top tier" stuff... Not sure you really grasped what he was talking about.

Never said you did speak of effectiveness, that was my own input because I like mechs with performance. It's relevant because the medium class in general is relatively neglected in favor of the larger classes, and that goes against the idea of role warfare ("everyone has a place"). Right now, mediums are usually the size of a heavy (or larger) while packing less weaponry and less armor. Sure, they can go a little bit faster, but not by much unless you pack in a big XL and thus can't carry much heavy weaponry. Their speed isn't enough to make them hard to hit in most situations, which means they can't "evasion tank" the way lights can sometimes get away with. Mediums get the worst of both worlds, in other words.

AlexEss, on 08 October 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

But you are in fact talking about just that... And going by that logic my Jenner should be as large if not bigger then some Mediums.

No, I'm not. General sizing range =/= all 50 ton mechs being exactly X pixels tall with no deviation. And your Jenner example is completely backwards, because it would never be the size of a medium under my own scaling (or even PGI's). The only way it would be that big is if we used TT scaling.

AlexEss, on 08 October 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

Ofc it is... Had to give you something real to complain about

I already did have something real to complain about.

Edited by FupDup, 08 October 2013 - 01:29 PM.

[ShadowbaneX]

Asyres, on 08 October 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

On the Phoenix page. Where it's been for months.

If it's not here it doesn't count.

[Arkmaus]

AlexEss, on 08 October 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

scale is ok.. your expectations are.. it seems.. not

Having an expectation of scale is not ok?

Wow, ok.

[Zyllos]

Barantor, on 08 October 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

Big head due to the missile launcher being in the head.

You know, Barantor, this Shadowhawk is going to produce something interesting here.

If you want to blow up the missile hardpoint in the head, you can't shoot were the weapon is located. Instead, you have to shoot where the cockpit is at.

[Corvus Antaka]

the hunchbacks being smaller will help make up the difference and counterbalance the hunch vs none.

yeah its a bit tall, but given it's design vs the hunchback and the JJ advantage the hieght size hurts it a bit making it give some counter balance.

still overall mechscaling remains to appear slightly off, perhaps simply a perception issue vs design choice.

[Carrioncrows]

This is different from the hunchback and awesome how?

Edited by Carrioncrows, 08 October 2013 - 02:03 PM.