137 replies to this topic

[MoonUnitBeta]

Deathmatch? There better be at least one respawn.

Actually. Maybe with deathmatch the adopted that you can choose 4 mechs to use, then drop with those. Each time you die you come back in a different mech until you’re out.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Harmatia, on 11 October 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

In the games I play most of those people crying about capping come as a result of a cap rush, leading to a short, boring and an unrewarding (XP and CB) experience. A lot of people just want to fight it out, but there is no pure mode to do this. A 4 group of light mechs with capture accelerators can ruin the fun for a whole lot of people for very little return. Even if you're on the winning team. Many times I've had my daily double wasted on a 300xp game simply because my team capped in under 2 minutes.

Assault should be more about assaulting (attack/defend maybe?) and leave point capping to conquest.

It is all relative if a game ends early to a cap...you get at least the amount of XP and CB based on time spent in that game and you can immediately queue up again. You can also defend you cap point because you know you prefer to fight it out and if your worried about the cap and having "fun" you should defend.

Capping is a legit win either get over or do what you need to do to prevent it from happening.

Do you realize there is 15 min timer for Assault mode? Are you willing to play it out that long should TDM not have a alternate win condition and on a large map the last few mechs can't find the last enemy mech to fight it out for "fun"?

[Audlyn]

Dozier, on 08 October 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

Because fighting is hard. But I know wasd must be hard for some to be so proud of capping

You have never stepped out of a heavy or assault mech, have you?
Better yet, try FIGHTING in a light mech.
It is extremely hard, especially without tonnage limits and all the prissy "no base cap" whiners keep dropping in throngs of assaults...try it sometime.

[Spawnsalot]

I fight in light mechs whenever I pilot one - I've just finished mastering Commando's and each one is a certified murder-scamp. Head-hunting, skirmishing, dueling assaults, dissecting AC/40 Jaegers, it's all possible and seriously good fun.
Certainly more engaging than running around the edge of a map under ECM.

[101011]

As long as it comes with Solaris...

[Jman5]

Red October, on 11 October 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

Awesome, like MWO needs a reason to make non-assaults even less relevant.
I see this being timed with an Atlas or Highlander "sale".

Hey if this shuffles off most of the assault/heavy sniper lovers away from Assault Mode, I'll be happy.

[ShinVector]

Roland, on 11 October 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

[size=4]

I think you underestimate how useful scouts are in a game where the little red square isn't the goal.

In deathmatch games in mechwarrior, scouts actually serve the purpose of scouting, since the enemy isn't always going to be on a direct path between your starting point and their base, like they are now.

Currently, scouting is extremely limited in MWO, compared to what it was back in MW4 deathmatch games in league play.

I don't get your point... I am a light pilot myself....
Unless they meddle around with the tonnage limits.
Most ECM Atlas DDC or most High Alpha Poptart Highlanders or Most Assaults is going to win.

Here is a screen shot for your ponder on how bad the match making of MWO can be.
Clue.. Count the number of assault mechs on one of the teams how can the more balanced PUG team fight that ?

Lastly MW4 is MW4... We are playing MWO not MW4...

Edited by ShinVector, 13 October 2013 - 05:10 PM.

[Marj]

Red October, on 11 October 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

Awesome, like MWO needs a reason to make non-assaults even less relevant.
I see this being timed with an Atlas or Highlander "sale".

How will an assault win against a spider with an ERPPC? I don't think it'll be the lights that will need to hide...

[Sandpit]

ShinVector, on 13 October 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:

I don't get your point... I am a light pilot myself....
Unless they meddle around with the tonnage limits.
Most ECM Atlas DDC or most High Alpha Poptart Highlanders or Most Assaults is going to win.

Here is a screen shot for your ponder on how bad the match making of MWO can be.
Clue.. Count the number of assault mechs on one of the teams how can the more balanced PUG team fight that ?

Lastly MW4 is MW4... We are playing MWO not MW4...

It's ridiculous that we have matches where the overall team weights are so drastically mismatched.....

[Tincan Nightmare]

I don't understand why so many people are upset about a mode they will never have to play. I personally dislike conquest, mostly because one team will become scattered in hopes of capping and get killed when the other stays concentrated, so I just pick assault in the options. Am I going to come on the forums and down people for playing conquest, or come up with reasons why it is a bad mode? No, that is the players choice and if they enjoy it then it is fulfilling its purpose. It is no different for a TDM mode, those that want to play it can enjoy it and others can choose a different mode. Instead people are coming on here to advocate how they will run around in an ECM light mech to ruin other peoples fun because they don't like the mode. Many players want to have matches that are all about the fighting, without having to worry about a base to defend, so why is it bad to give them a mode to serve that purpose? I also don't see how it would necessarily become an assault mechfest, because it would still have the same maps, weapons, and mechs who would be equally effective in either mode, just like heavier mechs still appear in conquest. Without being tied down to a base to defend, it might encourage the opposite, as lighter machines will now be able to maneuver freely without fear that they are leaving their base exposed.

[Gremlich Johns]

ShinVector, on 13 October 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:

I don't get your point... I am a light pilot myself....
Unless they meddle around with the tonnage limits.
Most ECM Atlas DDC or most High Alpha Poptart Highlanders or Most Assaults is going to win.

Here is a screen shot for your ponder on how bad the match making of MWO can be.
Clue.. Count the number of assault mechs on one of the teams how can the more balanced PUG team fight that ?

Lastly MW4 is MW4... We are playing MWO not MW4...

Irrespective, his point about the scout role in MWO is apt. rarely do I pug where the light with ECM actually does anything for his "team". Most times, the ECM light goes out an is the first to die or the light ECM mech goes out to do his own thing. In MW4, it was a role few could excel at, but most everybody tried and every team had at least one, sometimes two, scouts out looking for and fixing the enemy for his teammates. I find that most times it is a medium doing the scouting.

Assault would be more enjoyable if the bases could defend themselves until which time the "attacking" enemy mechs are destroyed by the defenses or team mechs are able to get back to base before it was lost.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 13 October 2013 - 07:25 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Tincan Nightmare, on 13 October 2013 - 07:19 PM, said:

I don't understand why so many people are upset about a mode they will never have to play. I personally dislike conquest, mostly because one team will become scattered in hopes of capping and get killed when the other stays concentrated, so I just pick assault in the options. Am I going to come on the forums and down people for playing conquest, or come up with reasons why it is a bad mode?

Ok, allow me to explain why people are upset about it. In a two-mode world, if you don't like one of the modes, it's a non-issue: Just select the other mode and go about your day.

In a multi-mode game however, it's different. You can't say "I want to play any mode except X"; you can only say "I will only play mode Y". Not only does this exclude you from other modes you want to play (you could get around that by alternating which mode to play) but more importantly it contributes to poor matchmaker results for you because you've just limited yourself to 1/3 of the current games collecting players. This hurts everyone.

Most of us who are nervous about the Deathmatch mode don't inherently object to the concept. We're not totally enthralled by capping, and many absolutely loathe "capwarrior" games. However, we're extremely worried that Deathmatch will end up being exactly what they were trying to avoid with Assault: Long matches that always drag on at the end.

I know many of the Assault matches I play now end "legitimately" in caps, with a 11x<some number> lead, because it's easier to just cap than chase that last light around. And I'm very happy with that! We've had a good fight, and there's a clear winning side. The lone light has no chance of a cap-win, because multiple players on the winning side can just stand on the cap and win it. But the match is wrapped up promptly, AND the surviving light gets to clutch his precious KDR.

If they somehow manage to implement Deathmatch in such a way that this isn't a problem, then I'm all for it. I'd love a pure-combat game. But nobody has ever suggested a solution that's really workable thus far, and I'm extremely dubious it's going to happen.

I want to know that I can click "Any" and get a match that won't drag on for 5 extra minutes of nothing after the match is already won. I'm all for long "white knuckle" games, but standing there waiting for the timer because I have no chance of catching the last light is suck. Once in a while is a non-issue, but regularly? No thanks.

[Tincan Nightmare]

Wintersdark, on 13 October 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

[/size]


Ok, allow me to explain why people are upset about it. In a two-mode world, if you don't like one of the modes, it's a non-issue: Just select the other mode and go about your day.

In a multi-mode game however, it's different. You can't say "I want to play any mode except X"; you can only say "I will only play mode Y". Not only does this exclude you from other modes you want to play (you could get around that by alternating which mode to play) but more importantly it contributes to poor matchmaker results for you because you've just limited yourself to 1/3 of the current games collecting players. This hurts everyone.

Most of us who are nervous about the Deathmatch mode don't inherently object to the concept. We're not totally enthralled by capping, and many absolutely loathe "capwarrior" games. However, we're extremely worried that Deathmatch will end up being exactly what they were trying to avoid with Assault: Long matches that always drag on at the end.

I know many of the Assault matches I play now end "legitimately" in caps, with a 11x<some number> lead, because it's easier to just cap than chase that last light around. And I'm very happy with that! We've had a good fight, and there's a clear winning side. The lone light has no chance of a cap-win, because multiple players on the winning side can just stand on the cap and win it. But the match is wrapped up promptly, AND the surviving light gets to clutch his precious KDR.

If they somehow manage to implement Deathmatch in such a way that this isn't a problem, then I'm all for it. I'd love a pure-combat game. But nobody has ever suggested a solution that's really workable thus far, and I'm extremely dubious it's going to happen.

I want to know that I can click "Any" and get a match that won't drag on for 5 extra minutes of nothing after the match is already won. I'm all for long "white knuckle" games, but standing there waiting for the timer because I have no chance of catching the last light is suck. Once in a while is a non-issue, but regularly? No thanks.

I understand your concerns, but then shouldn't people be suggesting ideas on how to prevent that lone light mech from stretching out the game, instead of suggesting to engage in that exact behavior. Just off the top of my head, make it just like assault, except that once the enemy team is down to a single player you can then cap the enemy base, and the loss still counts as a 'death' to that lone player. Going down fighting would be better in that instance, since either way you still get the 'death' on your record but you might take someone with you.

[Wintersdark]

Tincan Nightmare, on 13 October 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

I understand your concerns, but then shouldn't people be suggesting ideas on how to prevent that lone light mech from stretching out the game, instead of suggesting to engage in that exact behavior. Just off the top of my head, make it just like assault, except that once the enemy team is down to a single player you can then cap the enemy base, and the loss still counts as a 'death' to that lone player. Going down fighting would be better in that instance, since either way you still get the 'death' on your record but you might take someone with you.

People aren't really discussing ways to avoid that because they've been discussed to death over the last year (or more; year that I've seen) and there really aren't good solutions.

For instance, your solution above doesn't really make for an additional game mode, it's just a slightly tweaked Assault that still has bases - and doesn't account for 2 enemy mechs hiding (which is entirely likely in a non-roflstomp game). You need to draw the line somewhere, and no matter where you draw it people will ***** and moan. It's just not going to "feel" good.

Another solution I've heard is every mech killed cuts 30s off the battle timer. This forces things to wrap up quickly... But then you run the risk of tense games ending due to timeout when there is actual combat happening. Not good.

The best solution IMHO is forcing an "engagement timer" wherein after a point the battle ends if no combat happens for a certain length of time. Pulled out of *** numbers: After 7 minutes, a 2 minute timer starts, resetting whenever a mech is damaged by enemy fire. If the second timer ends, the match is over and the side with the most remaining mechs wins.

But our concern? We've had all these discussions, and PGI has said nothing. It's not at all unlikely that they'll just drop in Assault Without The Bases, and that'll cause the problems I listed in my previous post.

[Screech]

I just hope they don't remove the ability to choose your game-play type as they add more modes.

[ShinVector]

Gremlich Johns, on 13 October 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

Irrespective, his point about the scout role in MWO is apt. rarely do I pug where the light with ECM actually does anything for his "team". Most times, the ECM light goes out an is the first to die or the light ECM mech goes out to do his own thing. In MW4, it was a role few could excel at, but most everybody tried and every team had at least one, sometimes two, scouts out looking for and fixing the enemy for his teammates. I find that most times it is a medium doing the scouting.

Assault would be more enjoyable if the bases could defend themselves until which time the "attacking" enemy mechs are destroyed by the defenses or team mechs are able to get back to base before it was lost.

Here I thought we were talking about Death Match coming to MWO.
I see now the topic is about MW4, noob lights and a modified assault mode.

Edited by ShinVector, 13 October 2013 - 10:02 PM.

[TB Freelancer]

GRiPSViGiL, on 11 October 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

Do you realize there is 15 min timer for Assault mode? Are you willing to play it out that long should TDM not have a alternate win condition and on a large map the last few mechs can't find the last enemy mech to fight it out for "fun"?

Meh...the guys loosing to caps will simply be loosing to teams that will have only one objective in mind as opposed to the two they did in the past. A reality they simply can't begin to comprehend.

Matches might last a little longer.
We'll likely see more absolute steamrolls.
Sea levels will rise another 3 inches from the fresh flow of tears pouring into the forums about 15 minutes after TDM makes it into the game.

[-Natural Selection-]

Audlyn, on 12 October 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

You have never stepped out of a heavy or assault mech, have you?
Better yet, try FIGHTING in a light mech.
It is extremely hard, especially without tonnage limits and all the prissy &quot;no base cap&quot; whiners keep dropping in throngs of assaults...try it sometime.

I have 500076 damage done in lights. I think I can say you don't have to be a captard just because you are in a light.

[Sandpit]

Why are people arguing over a new game mode that they don't even have to play if they don't want to?

[Tincan Nightmare]

Wintersdark, on 13 October 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

People aren't really discussing ways to avoid that because they've been discussed to death over the last year (or more; year that I've seen) and there really aren't good solutions.

For instance, your solution above doesn't really make for an additional game mode, it's just a slightly tweaked Assault that still has bases - and doesn't account for 2 enemy mechs hiding (which is entirely likely in a non-roflstomp game). You need to draw the line somewhere, and no matter where you draw it people will ***** and moan. It's just not going to "feel" good.

Another solution I've heard is every mech killed cuts 30s off the battle timer. This forces things to wrap up quickly... But then you run the risk of tense games ending due to timeout when there is actual combat happening. Not good.

The best solution IMHO is forcing an "engagement timer" wherein after a point the battle ends if no combat happens for a certain length of time. Pulled out of *** numbers: After 7 minutes, a 2 minute timer starts, resetting whenever a mech is damaged by enemy fire. If the second timer ends, the match is over and the side with the most remaining mechs wins.

But our concern? We've had all these discussions, and PGI has said nothing. It's not at all unlikely that they'll just drop in Assault Without The Bases, and that'll cause the problems I listed in my previous post.

I think that is a real good idea, and hope PGI incorporates it (or at least something close). I do share your concerns about PGI listening about it though, especially after so many other issues (ECM, convergence, heat.....sigh).