137 replies to this topic

[Steel Talon]

We want Solaris mode with real arena, leave DM to CODies!

[Zerberus]

h0wl, on 08 October 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

Um, how is this different from what we have already with "Conquest" and "Assault"?

Whining about geting capped will be replaced by whining about not finding the last light and having to wait 5 minutes for the next match

Ghogiel, on 11 October 2013 - 02:56 AM, said:

I can almost guarantee there won't be. They will have a mechanic to end the match that doesn't require the team to spend 5mins hunting the spider.

*cough* basecaps*cough*

I`m eagerly waiting for the qq-fest this will undoubetdly becomre.

After all, we HAD a true deathmatch mode in Closed Beta, and REPLACED it with assault, BECASUE of all teh "I don`t wanna chase lights" QQ.

That was roughly one year ago, a bit more IIRC.

NOW people want DM back, becasue they`re tired of qqing about capping (be it reading it or doing it, no matter).

However, the decline the human race has not magically been reversed. It`s entirely more likely that it has accelerated....

Therefore, I theorize that anybody that thinks there will be LESS QQ than last year will probably be eating crow when the dust settles.

Edited by Zerberus, 14 October 2013 - 03:02 PM.

[Jman5]

I played a game the other day where the enemy team had a full lance of dual ER Large Laser Raven 3Ls. They pecked at us all game, but we managed to clean up the other 8 enemy when they botched a charge. Now the ravens were still alive and they continued chewing through our heavier but superior force until I managed to convince the team to rush the cap and force the ravens into brawl range.

Imagine if this scenario was in Skirmish mode. Now the only choice you really have is to hide your team in some hole for 10 minutes and hope the pugs don't get themselves kited to oblivion.

I'm curious to see how the devs handle Skirmish, but I'm worried that they are literally just going to ship assault mode sans bases.

[Wintersdark]

Jman5, on 14 October 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

I played a game the other day where the enemy team had a full lance of dual ER Large Laser Raven 3Ls. They pecked at us all game, but we managed to clean up the other 8 enemy when they botched a charge. Now the ravens were still alive and they continued chewing through our heavier but superior force until I managed to convince the team to rush the cap and force the ravens into brawl range.

Imagine if this scenario was in Skirmish mode. Now the only choice you really have is to hide your team in some hole for 10 minutes and hope the pugs don't get themselves kited to oblivion.

I'm curious to see how the devs handle Skirmish, but I'm worried that they are literally just going to ship assault mode sans bases.

This is the other side of the coin. All the ways that premades will work Deathmatch to make for really, really unpleasant games. The faster team dictates how the battle is played, and under what circumstances engagements happen.

What first springs to mind is lots of 4-man D-DC groups and 4-man sniper-light groups. Basically, I think that the majority of proponents here envisage these wonderful battles where forces use elaborate tactics in pure battle with no basecapping BS.

That's not how it'll work in pug matches. People will find oddball tactics to win. These will be valid strategies, and finding them will be lots of fun for some. But actual pick up gameplay in those matches will suck so very, very badly, particularly for the solo pugger who's not involved in the strategy of the day.

And, yes, "solo pug matches always lack strategy" or whatever, sure. But there are ways in Assault and Conquest to force engagement. Without that stick, you're going to find a lot of times two groups camp up with their given strategy and refuse to budge (and by doing so cede the advantage to the other team). At least now, there's always the base option to force things to progress in a battle one way or another.

Now, it's going to happen, so be it. But I'm getting these things said now, so I have quality "I told you so" ammunition later.


In short, I maintain: It's much better to end a match quickly and launch another, as unsatisfactory as that can be, than it is to spend 15 minutes waiting for something to happen only to have the match timer end the match.

Also: I predict a lot of Deathmatch matches having people disconnecting mid match - even live players, because even with their mech tied up, it's better to get into another match that sucks less than to spend another 10 minutes in your assault while a team of sniper lights dances around taking teensy tiny little bites out of you.

[Roadbeer]

It's not even breathing hard.

[Wintersdark]

Roadbeer, on 14 October 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

It's not even breathing hard.

Roadbeer, never stop what you do.

[Helican]

GRiPSViGiL, on 08 October 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

Thank goodness...so tired of idiots crying about capping when it is a win condition. I do know I will avoid that game mode like the plague though.

Why be angry at people who don't want to play "Stand Next to the Machine Longer" Online. "Man, we capped that base so hard!"

Edited by Helican, 14 October 2013 - 09:45 PM.

[990Dreams]

Audlyn, on 12 October 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

You have never stepped out of a heavy or assault mech, have you?
Better yet, try FIGHTING in a light mech.
It is extremely hard, especially without tonnage limits and all the prissy "no base cap" whiners keep dropping in throngs of assaults...try it sometime.

Mech: SPIDER SDR-5K
Matches played: 123
Wins: 47
Loses: 71
Ratio: 0.66
Kills: 47
Deaths: 98
Ratio: 0.48
Damage done: 16,544
XP Earned: 68,974
Time played: 10:23:15

While the K/D ratio isn't good, I just want money. And my Kill Assists are off the charts (I count at 180+). On the contrary, my Jagermech JM6-DD (with 2 AC/20s) has only done 14,489 damage.

[Stardancer01]

I would not want a TEAM death match!
A free for all, everyman for him/her self, Solaris arena death match, is what I want!
Take the excessive numbers of Assault mechs and place them against each other in an Arena weight match, rather than flush them in to Battle mode games, to unbalance them.

If there are too many of any mech class at a time they should not be shoe horned and squeezed into normal battle matches but into death arena matches with mechs of their own weight scale.
Favouritism should be shown to mediums and light assaults (80-90ton) over supper assaults (95-100ton) to get placement in common matches.

‘No guts no galaxy’ commentary in the background as music theme

Edited by Stardancer01, 03 November 2013 - 01:06 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Although base capping can be frustrating (especially when you were winning up till then), it is a valid strategy to end a match.

Brief Rant:
I have communicated enemy movments only to have my team ignore them, the enemy caps us, and then my team has the nerve to yell at the other team for capping. Jeeze guys, I told you where they were and where they were going. You left the base open and you lost because of it. Don't get all upset at the enemy for taking advantage of our poor defense and response.

I do think team deathmatch should be fine. The cap was a good win condition for ending a match if a team's remaining mech decides to power down and hide (creating 7 min of walking around and doing nothing but searching). If there is no cap in skirmish, they will need to come up with a valid mechanic to end a match early (something I don't know if the match type allows for anyway).

Even as a PUG, regular "every man for themselves" deathmatch I disagree with entirely.

[Zerberus]

Jman5, on 08 October 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

1. Would an FFA or 1v1 count toward your Elo? Or would they just be for fun?

Elo I don`t mind, as long as they have no bearing on CW. Planetary control decided by arena match is just stupid, even for BT.

Quote

2. What sort of mechanisms will you have in place that prevents stalemates?

I would not "prevent" them per se, but leave standard 1A deathmatch rules in place. And deviation from them will do nothing but give teh QQers more to whine about.

Quote

3. What sort of mechanisms will you have in place that prevents the last guy from running around for 10 minutes to punish the "cheese builds", or whatever?

Again, none. They (meaning the large majority advocating the mode) specifically said this would not be an issue. They did not care when we told them that the bases in assault were added specifically to counteract this.

So let them learn this lesson by themselves if they refuse to learn from the community`s experience.

Quote

4. What will happen to Assault mode?

It will finally be peacefully quiet without people whining everytime someone touches a base.

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5. Will Skirmish devolve into an assault/heavy sniper snoozefest? I can see it turning into a 1-dimensional game-mode where you just deathball from a super defensible ridge and out-wait your opponent.

Isn`t deathball mode exactly what they wanted? I don`t see the problem.

I`m glad to see DM coming, as long as I can deselect DM and only DM. The reason I`m glad is that all of the hulk smash robots players will now finally have their sandbox to play in, allowing serious players to compete in the two game modes that actually mean something, without constant qq ingame and on the forums every time somebody loses as a result of theirt own laziness, stupidity, or tactical ineptitude.

Edited by Zerberus, 09 November 2013 - 02:45 AM.

[Wil McCullough]

Audlyn, on 12 October 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

You have never stepped out of a heavy or assault mech, have you? Better yet, try FIGHTING in a light mech. It is extremely hard, especially without tonnage limits and all the prissy "no base cap" whiners keep dropping in throngs of assaults...try it sometime.

yeah ikr. fighting in light mechs is such an impossibility.

did 607 damage because of base capping, yes i did. it's the only thing lights are good for, right?

Edited by Wil McCullough, 09 November 2013 - 09:00 AM.

[MadcatX]

Jman5, on 08 October 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...irector-update/

With the next game mode "Skirmish" on the horizon what are you thoughts or Concerns?


I thought it was interesting how he said "deathmatch and team deathmatch". This seems to indicate that we'll be getting some sort of FFA or 1v1 matches along with the regular team deathmatch.

I do have plenty of concerns that I hope are addressed if this comes out prior to CW.

1. Would an FFA or 1v1 count toward your Elo? Or would they just be for fun?

2. What sort of mechanisms will you have in place that prevents stalemates?

3. What sort of mechanisms will you have in place that prevents the last guy from running around for 10 minutes to punish the "cheese builds", or whatever?

4. What will happen to Assault mode?

5. Will Skirmish devolve into an assault/heavy sniper snoozefest? I can see it turning into a 1-dimensional game-mode where you just deathball from a super defensible ridge and out-wait your opponent.

1. Any XvsX (even 1on1) could run off the current elo. A seperate elo for FFA might be beneficial.

2. If a game ends in a tie, make the game count as a loss for both teams. If it is a true stalemate with a fixed number (say 50%) of mechs are alive on BOTH teams, then nobody on either team receives any c-bills or XP. I know it sounds damn harsh, but it's mainly to prevent the "both teams playing defensive and waiting for the other team to come... and 15 minutes later, neither team engages" strategy.

3. Although a few ideas come to mind, not a single one can be applied that might also effect someone who isn't trolling. It's just an unfortunate side effect of "destroy the other team" as being the only victory condition.

4. It won't be going anywhere. I figure it'll still get played.

5. Strategies for DM/TDM will happen one of two ways:

TDM:

-- Best case scenario: goes live, various people/teams begin testing out various strategies/build based on the maps. There isn't a "best" strategy/build combo, thus the game mode remains dynamic instead of always using the same strategy.

-- Worst case scenario: Both teams take up separate strategic positions on the map (ones that provide good FoV for sniping, or hiding in a city for a brawler-heavy team) and wait for the other team, waiting until the 12-13 minute mark, at which point they realize that both are camping and then you end up with a 2 minute fight at the end which still would most likely end in a tie.

[Geek Verve]

GRiPSViGiL, on 08 October 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

Really? You needed an edit to think you said something clever? You must be an ***** to infer that I don't have skill so I am "proud" of capping.

It is a WIN CONDITION of two of the game we have. When it occurs I don't cry like the majority of the vocal minority does.

It's not a "vocal minority". It's a vast majority. All you have to do is watch the chat window when it happens.

Capping certainly has its place, but there is just no logic behind rushing to cap at the beginning of a match. So little significance is placed on a win, that there is no sense in it. It's no better than players who cycle through all their mechs, joining matches and DC'ing just to farm C-Bills.

The *only* leg that early cappers have to stand on in their argument is the fact that capping is listed as a win condition. There is nothing to support that being a sound decision by PGI in its current implementation.

[Farix]

Geek Verve, on 10 November 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

It's not a "vocal minority". It's a vast majority. All you have to do is watch the chat window when it happens.

If it is the "vast majority", then why does every poll on either removing the bases or placing some sort of restrictions on capturing always show the exact opposite by wide margins? And this in light of those who are more likely to oppose base capture are more likely to participate on those poll than those who accept it as a winning condition.

In short, that "vast majority" you are clamming that oppose base captures is neither vast nor a majority.

Edited by Farix, 10 November 2013 - 10:00 AM.

[Sandpit]

Why is this even a topic?

Deathmatch is coming, if you don't like the whole capping mechanic then play that when it comes out. I'm eagerly awaiting the new "Deathmatch is (insert whatever you don't liek about it here) and needs to be "fixed" or "removed" QQ here)" to be one of the new bandwagons after its release. At least then you'll leave those of us playing the other modes alone and stop telling everyone else that capping is OP.

[Jabakahn]

To those who defend capping, yes it is a "Legitimate Win Condition". But its so BORING!!!. The whole point of having big multiton Mech is is to shoot something. I would love to see the team death match. That way all the cappers can play on Assault or Conquest and leave Deathmatch to real men ,maybe a few ladies, that drive real Mechs and shoot each other.

[Sandpit]

Jabakahn, on 16 November 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:

But its so BORING!!!. The whole point of having big multiton Mech is is to shoot something. I would love to see the team death match. That way all the cappers can play on Assault or Conquest and leave Deathmatch to real men ,maybe a few ladies, that drive real Mechs and shoot each other.

So, in other words, I should play how you want me to play so it's not boring for you. Interesting. Please tell me more about how you're a real man because you play a video game and click a mouse button.

[Will9761]

I welcome a DeathMatch game mode. This could be interesting in three ways.

1. If it has a timer it will be all about survivial.

2. If the game mode doesn't have a timer, it will be an all out brawl.

3. Solaris-styled free-for-all with Duncan Fisher (please let this happen).

[Sandpit]

Will9761, on 20 November 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

I welcome a DeathMatch game mode. This could be interesting in three ways.

1. If it has a timer it will be all about survivial.

2. If the game mode doesn't have a timer, it will be an all out brawl.

3. Solaris-styled free-for-all with Duncan Fisher (please let this happen).

Nobody (that I've seen) is arguing against the mode. There are some of us tired of hearing about how capping is "(insert whatever adjective you like here)" and needs to be "fixed" because they don't like it when it's already been announced that DM is coming, they'll have the game mode they enjoy. Stop trying to force everyone else in the game to cater to what you think is "fun". Stop trying to dictate how others play the game. (And by "you" I mean those who have actually shown this kind of behavior in general not "you" specifically)