144 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

Do you ever miss that feeling of dread when you see the most deadly battlemechs in the BT universe? Like that feeling when you're playing Doom 2 and you run into a Cyberdemon and all you can think is "Ohmygod ohmygod ohmygod, don't panic, don't panic, don't panic! Fear is the mindkiller!"

Even in WoW, I remember a slightly raised heart beat during the early days, when the game was still new and you ran into an enemy player with epic PvP gear and some kind of fearsome PvP title.

In MWO, there's none of that. You'll see a team with 7 assault mechs and they'll probably still only do 200 damage each. Two of them are stock green Champion mechs, running around shooting randomly at buildings and trees. The guy that ends up doing top damage is a Spider with a PPC.

Of course, I'm a big advocate of equally powerful mech classes, as long as everyone is free to choose any mech without consequences. You'll often see me on the forum, arguing that light mechs and medium mechs need a buff. But in my heart of hearts, I wish certain assault mechs were just death incarnate, to the point where a whole team would panic at the mere sight of them. And I'm not just talking about assault mechs being powerful, but also the sense of dread when you know that they are probably piloted by some of the best pilots in the game.

We'll still have that with CW, I guess. Some merc companies will get a reputation for their skill. And anyone who's a member of the Wolf's Dragoons is going to be a big deal. But I still want to bump into an Atlas on the battlefield and just gasp "MY GOD!"

TL;DR - Blah, blah, nostalgia. Games were so much better when I was young. Since Wolfenstein, FPS games just aren't what they used to be.

[FupDup]

A big part of it is because there's just so many of them everywhere. Assaults here are practically standard infantry around here in MWO.

[Kobold]

In tabletop it was more like "lol, you wasted 2000 bv on an ATLAS?"

DVS-2, TDK-7X, AWS-9Q... those were scary assaults. Heck, even the Banshee 3S with level 1 tech was scarier than some of the Atlases.

[focuspark]

Atlas is just a really big mech. This is a multiplayer first-person-shooter, not a novel. Mechs are only (or should be) as scary as their pilots are skillful; and there's no way to know a player's skill until they've killed you.

[OneEyed Jack]

From the description, being able to join Wolf's Dragoons will be more a sign of a grinder than any particular skill. Anybody can eventually get the faction points.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Someone needs to play more medium mechs. They are the perfect combination of slow, under armored, and undergunned, to make Assault mechs scary again.

[Escef]

Honestly, what stops the Atlas from being feared is not the mech itself, but the pilots. A lot of people piloting Atlases wouldn't last 30 seconds in anything less. Clumsy, horrible shots, don't know how to hit R, don't know their weapon ranges, asstastic builds. The combination of heavy armor and low speed means they get to the fight in time to vulture kills, which allows them to fool themselves into thinking they're good.

What's scarey is when you encounter 2 Atlases together. Even if they both suck, the odds of both of them continuously failing against you is not good.

[Alistair Winter]

Well, I don't know how things worked in TT, except that there were a lot of issues with BV. And I realize this isn't TT or a BT novel (never read any of those btw). It's not about my dedication to the BT lore, because I never knew BT outside of the Mechwarrior games. It's more about making computer games where certain enemies are just more scary than others.

Like, if you've ever played Mass Effect 3 multiplayer, then you probably remember the feeling of being all alone, your team dead and dying, and then you hear the spine-tingling scream of a Banshee spawning nearby.

It's hard to do that in a PvP multiplayer game, I know. It's why PGI doesn't want to make clan mechs more powerful, because they simply can't figure out how to do that without breaking the game. And frankly, I'm not sure how it would work. I'm not presenting a solution. I'm just saying that I miss a bit of adrenaline in modern computer games like this one. I miss the suspense and panic of encountering particularly dangerous opponents.

[Krivvan]

OneEyed Jack, on 08 October 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

From the description, being able to join Wolf's Dragoons will be more a sign of a grinder than any particular skill. Anybody can eventually get the faction points.

Which is the entire point of factions of course. Having progression while not really being good enough to do so by actually getting better.

Merc units are ideally about progression through skill.

Alistair Winter, on 08 October 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

I'm just saying that I miss a bit of adrenaline in modern computer games like this one. I miss the suspense and panic of encountering particularly dangerous opponents.

That's why I play light mechs. I constantly have to think "oh god I need to leave now" or "I have to somehow survive against this onslaught, because I'm the only one left that can do something about this." Where even a single hit from a scary mech can be your end and you have to focus on not even really being in the sights of your enemy, or mentally counting the cooldown knowing you only have a second or two to simultaneously fire back and reposition yourself.

I don't feel my heart beating with anything else but a light.

[Bhael Fire]

Alistair Winter, on 08 October 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

Two of them are stock green Champion mechs, running around shooting randomly at buildings and trees.

I hate that dreaded moment after a match starts — It's like "well, there goes this match"

[Avalios]

When i see an atlas i think "sweet, i can rack up some high damage #s on that guy"

[Daekar]

As has been said, go jump in a Blackjack or one of the other mediums. EVERYTHING is scary! I routinely vocalize expletive exclamations when I suddenly come on an Atlas when I'm running my mediums.

I agree that since the average MWO match contains enough BV worth of mechs to do a TT campaign, things are a little out of hand. Someday they'll do tonnage limits and the tears will be delicious.

[Alistair Winter]

Krivvan, on 08 October 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

That's why I play light mechs. I constantly have to think "oh god I need to leave now" or "I have to somehow survive against this onslaught, because I'm the only one left that can do something about this." Where even a single hit from a scary mech can be your end and you have to focus on not even really being in the sights of your enemy, or mentally counting the cooldown knowing you only have a second or two to simultaneously fire back and reposition yourself.
I don't feel my heart beating with anything else but a light.

Yeah, I definitely agree that this is the charm of being a light mech pilot. But in any of my light mechs, even my Raven 2X and 4X, if I see a lone assault mech on the battlefield, I'm running straight up to it, unless it has 4 SSRMs or is a LL/LPL boat. A standard Atlas with an AC20, LRMs and some medium lasers? I'll take those odds any day of the week.

I know I have to play it careful, but in my Raven 2X or Raven 4X, I'm not that scared of assault mechs. My nemesis is the 5 SSRM Kintaro. But that doesn't scare me, so much as remind me how much I hate the SSRM mechanic.

Bhael Fire, on 08 October 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

I hate that dreaded moment after a match starts — It's like "well, there goes this match"

Hahah, you got me! The big thing to be afraid of in this game, the thing that really gets your adrenaline going, is when you realize your assault mech lance is completely useless.

Daekar, on 08 October 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

As has been said, go jump in a Blackjack or one of the other mediums. EVERYTHING is scary! I routinely vocalize expletive exclamations when I suddenly come on an Atlas when I'm running my mediums.

I agree that since the average MWO match contains enough BV worth of mechs to do a TT campaign, things are a little out of hand. Someday they'll do tonnage limits and the tears will be delicious.

Hey, one of my favourite builds right now is a Cicada 3M with ECM and gauss rifle, nothing else. It's fun, but enemy assault mechs should be as afraid of me as I of them.

Tonnage limits? I'm looking forward to them. But it doesn't quench my thirst for uber scary adversaries.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 08 October 2013 - 03:13 PM.

[Krivvan]

Alistair Winter, on 08 October 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

if I see a lone assault mech on the battlefield, I'm running straight up to it, unless it has 4 SSRMs or is a LL/LPL boat. A standard Atlas with an AC20, LRMs and some medium lasers? I'll take those odds any day of the week.

What scares me are when there's a team on the other side of this map with 4-8 ridiculously amazing snipers that can all hit me together at once at a moment's notice, and I have to go in there to make stuff happen despite that.

[Daekar]

Krivvan, on 08 October 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

What scares me are when there's a team on the other side of this map with 4-8 ridiculously amazing snipers that can all hit me together at once at a moment's notice, and I have to go in there to make stuff happen despite that.

That doesn't scare me, that makes me want to flank or win by cap rather than give the snipers padding for their egos. "Oh screw it, who cares" is the reaction I get from snipers, because there is nothing fun about playing against them or as one of them.

[Krivvan]

Daekar, on 08 October 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

That doesn't scare me, that makes me want to flank or win by cap rather than give the snipers padding for their egos. "Oh screw it, who cares" is the reaction I get from snipers, because there is nothing fun about playing against them or as one of them.

I'm referring to 12-man games. You don't just win by cap without them responding in some way. Until they know you and the rest of the lights are busy or dealt with in some way, they will never just leave their cap open.

[focuspark]

Krivvan, on 08 October 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

I'm referring to 12-man games. You don't just win by cap without them responding in some way. Until they know you and the rest of the lights are busy or dealt with in some way, they will never just leave their cap open.

Are you and I playing the same game?

[Sagamore]

They aren't so scary considering how common they are:

[Daekar]

focuspark, on 08 October 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

Are you and I playing the same game?

No no, I'm sure he's right when it comes to team play over comms. It's just that pugging is SO different from playing over voice that it's almost impossible to appreciate without experiencing it yourself.

EDIT: Fighting against high-alpha builds without the ability to return fire isn't fun whether you've got voice comms or not, and being a sniper is boring.

Edited by Daekar, 08 October 2013 - 03:53 PM.

[Tsig]

Alistair Winter, on 08 October 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

Yeah, I definitely agree that this is the charm of being a light mech pilot. But in any of my light mechs, even my Raven 2X and 4X, if I see a lone assault mech on the battlefield, I'm running straight up to it, unless it has 4 SSRMs or is a LL/LPL boat. A standard Atlas with an AC20, LRMs and some medium lasers? I'll take those odds any day of the week.

I know I have to play it careful, but in my Raven 2X or Raven 4X, I'm not that scared of assault mechs. My nemesis is the 5 SSRM Kintaro. But that doesn't scare me, so much as remind me how much I hate the SSRM mechanic.



Hahah, you got me! The big thing to be afraid of in this game, the thing that really gets your adrenaline going, is when you realize your assault mech lance is completely useless.


Hey, one of my favourite builds right now is a Cicada 3M with ECM and gauss rifle, nothing else. It's fun, but enemy assault mechs should be as afraid of me as I of them.

Tonnage limits? I'm looking forward to them. But it doesn't quench my thirst for uber scary adversaries.

To be fair, Alistair, even now, I'm still hesitant to take on an Atlas unless he's alone. And even then, I'm still cautious about his teammates coming back to help him. Stalkers give me the same feeling...but every other Assault Mech in the game just doesn't feel threatening to me for some reason.