9 replies to this topic

[Arcturious]

This patch brought in forward movement on jump jets, which now makes the list of nerfs to jump sniping at least:

Gauss charge up time
PPC heat increased
Forward momentum on JJ
Desync on projectile speeds for PPC and Gauss

Perhaps more I've forgotten. I long ago took jump jets off all my mechs, as with the random reticle shake they are simply not worth the tonnage and crit slots. The random factor means someone using JJ will almost 100% of the time lose to the same build without JJ, as they will have a bigger engine or more HS instead. Plus they will actually hit what they aim at *gasp*.

Since last patch, I put some back on to test and found that they still are broken for lights and brawlers. The days of fighting a running battle in a highlander brawling in close combat are still only a dimly remembered dream of a better time.

Can the random reticle shake now be removed, since the main reason it was introduced no longer applies? I would love to get some use out of the 40+ JJ's I have sitting in my inventory.

[winglander]

I can understand your frustration of the change that make us having to relearn what we have been doing for so long. I have to give up on my PPC stalker build because of the PPC nerf.

But certainly the JJ forward movement have more benefit then the trouble caused? I would love to get unstuck at certain places or leap frogging to higher ground with the forward movement, and learn to stay back 20meters from cover to compensate for the forward movement.

Or is there another issue that I have think of?

[August55]

The forward jumping thing makes the jump shake a bit redundant now. It'd be nice to use my Trebuchet build properly (which involves bunnyhopping like a quake 3 player with srms).

[rolly]

Sorry but no pity here. Jumping and shooting is meant to be difficult, not an exploit of builds and game mechanics (a la MW3 multiplayer) Not only is it canon, its also in the rule set.

Jumping Forward movement = Temporary fix to forward momentum. Works on some level, but a minor annoyance at best. The only thing that helps my Highlander clear objects.

Additional Heat on PPC? = Normal. Its a heavy particle cannon, not a fax machine. If you want the damage and range with no reliance on ammo, there has to be a balance.

Gauss Charge up = was annoying, but adds to the sniper usage and makes a clear distinction to what type of weapon it is in real time, After getting use to it, its a nice effect.

Reticle Shake = Good feature, since it makes jumping and sniping congruous AND adds to immersion. Mechs are NOT aerodynamic, ie. Flying brick.

As far as I know I don't recall reading about Snipers in WW2 or in the middle east jumping up and shooting from behind hills with no need to reload or prep for the shot. These additions adjust game play and frankly add a bit more canon to the game.

[rolly]

August55, on 08 October 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

The forward jumping thing makes the jump shake a bit redundant now. It'd be nice to use my Trebuchet build properly (which involves bunnyhopping like a quake 3 player with srms).

Not really redundant. The two are separate facets of the game. One allows mechs to clear objects better at least in a partial fix. The other hampers a style of play that in my opinion exploits game mechanics and frankly even adds a sense of realism or immersion to the game.

And as for "properly", I don't think the designers put the Treb into the game to satisfy bunny hopping. This game is pretty far removed from Quake 3 too.

[Caboose30]

rolly, on 08 October 2013 - 05:59 PM, said:

Sorry but no pity here. Jumping and shooting is meant to be difficult, not an exploit of builds and game mechanics (a la MW3 multiplayer) Not only is it canon, its also in the rule set.

Jumping Forward movement = Temporary fix to forward momentum. Works on some level, but a minor annoyance at best. The only thing that helps my Highlander clear objects.

Additional Heat on PPC? = Normal. Its a heavy particle cannon, not a fax machine. If you want the damage and range with no reliance on ammo, there has to be a balance.

Gauss Charge up = was annoying, but adds to the sniper usage and makes a clear distinction to what type of weapon it is in real time, After getting use to it, its a nice effect.

Reticle Shake = Good feature, since it makes jumping and sniping congruous AND adds to immersion. Mechs are NOT aerodynamic, ie. Flying brick.

As far as I know I don't recall reading about Snipers in WW2 or in the middle east jumping up and shooting from behind hills with no need to reload or prep for the shot. These additions adjust game play and frankly add a bit more canon to the game.

Very well said, I agree on all of it. The game is meant to be learned, and learning is work. It's still in development (and likely always will be) so get used to little changes having a large impact. I have an even number of jump/non-jump mechs. Now that it's difficult to just climb a hill, JJs are a huge advantage.

[Hex Pallett]

All these poor crybabies who still can't get over the fact that their cheese is cold and moldy.

[Nebelfeuer]

rolly, on 08 October 2013 - 05:59 PM, said:

Sorry but no pity here. Jumping and shooting is meant to be difficult, not an exploit of builds and game mechanics (a la MW3 multiplayer) Not only is it canon, its also in the rule set.

Difficult does not mean impossible( we have the later right now as long as JJ are used).
Difficult would mean a certain amount of redicule shake that allows you to fire precisely when the redicule is over the target.
Currently the shot is done in a random direction without relation to the redicule at all.
Precise midflight attacks are impossible while poptarting still is doable = therefore it is a flawed system.

LRM mechanics are equally dumbed down. We had a system once that made it hard to hit someone(you had to work for it) and was quite rewarding if you did with mostly concentrated dmg and that was equally fun to evade or at least spread actively by the defender(torsotwist) . Currently we have a system that will almost allways hit regardless of cover but do neglectable and widely spread dmg if not eaten by a single AMS entirely. LRMS have become a dumb spam when locked and hope for the best weapon.

[Tahribator]

Arcturious, on 08 October 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

The random factor means someone using JJ will almost 100% of the time lose to the same build without JJ, as they will have a bigger engine or more HS instead. Plus they will actually hit what they aim at *gasp*.

This is so wrong. A JJ mech will always trump over a non-JJ in a brawl(say a HGN against an Atlas) simply because of damage mitigation. When you're jumpjetting, you tend to get hit in the legs(people have hard time aiming when you're going vertical, plus possibly the wonky netcode makes them shoot where your torso "was") and that adds a huge buffer. General damage spread around torso is also better.

Cockpit shake also hardly makes a difference when you're face to face with the mech you're brawling with; you can still damage him in the air while he has a hard time aiming. You may not hit the part you want, but still you're wearing that mech down. For longer range you can still poptart nicely after you let go of spacebar.

Forward momentum was a nice change for a JJ junkie like me, because it was annoying getting stuck in elevated terrain and having your JJ's not help you other than push you straight up only to land at the same spot. I didn't notice a difference between with/without momentum while on the move.

Edited by Tahribator, 09 October 2013 - 02:13 AM.

[Doc Andrews]

The JJ change nerfs nothing. It teaching you how to CORRECTLY jump pad (aka 'poptart').

You should never, EVER be jumping directly up and down to jump snipe. It's how you get your *** blown away. You should circle and jump with SIDEWAYS momentum, torso twisted at your target. A parabolic arc is much harder to hit than a straight up and down jump.

Just look at it as a chance to do it right, and become a much more devastating jump padder in the process.