427 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 October 2013 - 03:51 AM, said:

How do you do that Vass? It is Medium weight, Medium Armor, Medium weapon load, Medium speed. It should by right excel at nothing It is even in the class name medium!!!

You do realize that there are two middleman classes, right? Lights and assaults are the opposite extremes, and they are the specialists. Mediums and heavies both sit in the middle. Right now, though, heavies are a much better middle-of-the-road than mediums in almost every way.

Edited by FupDup, 14 October 2013 - 04:21 AM.

[B0oN]

One thing to do could (should?) be : get higher rewards for damaging heavier mechs (and vice versa lower rewards for damaging lighter mechs) .
Boni for certain mech weights would be too specific and I guess also a major knife edge´s walk to balance, role specific rewards (scouting, elctronicwarfare,harassing,flanking,brawling,support-firing,...) in the contrary would be awesome and i.I.r.c. (fingers crossed) are in the making.

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 14 October 2013 - 04:09 AM, said:

You do realize that there are two middleman classes, right? Lights and assaults are the opposite extremes, and they are the specialists. Mediums and heavies both sit in the middle. Right now, though, heavies are a much better middle-of-the-road than mediums in almost every way.

I understand what you are saying, But like everywhere else you have small, medium, large & extra large. So isn't this the same principle?

Off topic: I used to laugh cause my Local theater had drink sizes of Medium, large and extra large. I would ask "So isn't that your Small medium and large sizes? I mean your smallest is a Medium... how's that work?"

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 14 October 2013 - 04:26 AM.

[FupDup]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 October 2013 - 04:24 AM, said:

I understand what you are saying, But like everywhere else you have small, medium, large & extra large. So isn't this the same principle?

I prefer to look at it as small, lower-medium, upper-medium, and large. I don't classify my mechs like soft drink sizes.

Edited by FupDup, 14 October 2013 - 04:28 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 14 October 2013 - 04:27 AM, said:

I prefer to look at it as small, lower-medium, upper-medium, and large. I don't classify my mechs like soft drink sizes.

But they are soft drink size. Even using your lower-medium example, you would have a faster medium but still not as fast as a light. A better armored light (Heavy scout?). And a heavy-medium would still not be as good as a heavy due to less mass to work with.

Now if they made Mediums smaller than a large in scale... that might help!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 14 October 2013 - 04:37 AM.

[FupDup]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 October 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

But they are soft drink size.

They don't taste nearly as good, though!

Joseph Mallan, on 14 October 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

Even using your lower-medium example, you would have a faster medium but still not as fast as a light. A better armored light (Heavy scout?). And a heavy-medium would still not be as good as a heavy due to less mass to work with.

Now if they made Mediums smaller than a large in scale... that might help!

In theory this is how it would work, but in practice the upper-medium currently overlaps with the lower-medium too much and kind of takes his job. And yes, scaling mediums like beefy lights instead of underdeveloped heavies would help a lot with this.

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 14 October 2013 - 04:38 AM, said:

They don't taste nearly as good, though!

To much Lead in your Big Gulp!

Quote

In theory this is how it would work, but in practice the upper-medium currently overlaps with the lower-medium too much and kind of takes his job. And yes, scaling mediums like beefy lights instead of underdeveloped heavies would help a lot with this.

But that brings me back to my point, as a medium it should be good but not Best

[FupDup]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 October 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:

But that brings me back to my point, as a medium it should be good but not Best

But they aren't particularly good right now in most cases.

[FunkyFritter]

Increase the mobility difference between mediums and heavies.

[Vassago Rain]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 October 2013 - 03:51 AM, said:

How do you do that Vass? It is Medium weight, Medium Armor, Medium weapon load, Medium speed. It should by right excel at nothing It is even in the class name medium!!!

It's very simple.

Since they're stuck with super unfavorable engine and armor weight, give them access to electronics like ECM, multiple AMS, naturally improved sensor ranges, more jump jet totals than everybody else, and etc. Give them extra module slots. Give them more weapon hardpoints all over. They'll never be able to run with all of them full, and a big engine, but they could run one of them, or pick a whole bunch of random abilities and guns at their leisure.

Oh, and cut them down to size.

[Bagheera]

Vassago Rain, on 14 October 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

more jump jet totals than everybody else

WTB JJs for my Hiunchie-4G.

One could also give them a discount on IS/Gyro/etc weight, you know, that portion of tonnage that never goes away when the mech is stripped.

Extra 0.5-2 tons depending the the weight of the mech. Would make builds more interesting.

[Joseph Mallan]

Vassago Rain, on 14 October 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

It's very simple.

Since they're stuck with super unfavorable engine and armor weight, give them access to electronics like ECM, multiple AMS, naturally improved sensor ranges, more jump jet totals than everybody else, and etc. Give them extra module slots. Give them more weapon hardpoints all over. They'll never be able to run with all of them full, and a big engine, but they could run one of them, or pick a whole bunch of random abilities and guns at their leisure.

Oh, and cut them down to size.

More electronics... Possibly Even though ECM is not quite... Fixed.
Multiple AMS... Every weight class should have at least one that can do this trick.
More Sensor range should go to scouts (ie Lights)
Jump Jets used to be regulated by your Walk rate. I'm no overjoyed by how MW:O does it, but I'm not put out.
More Hard points... IKD I don't see this being an improvement thanks to Ghost Heat.

FupDup, on 14 October 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

But they aren't particularly good right now in most cases.

There is good better and best. I can do good in some Mediums.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 14 October 2013 - 08:07 AM.

[Karandor]

14 pages an I don't think anyone said remove ghost heat from medium mechs.

If mediums didn't have ghost heat people would use them. Would really help the SRM focused mediums. Also you'd have people doing crazy stuff like a 3 PPC poptart BJ. Mediums are squishy enough that they wouldn't dominate the meta but it would at least open up some fun options.

The best way to balance things, however, would be to have different pilot experience trees for every different mech. Weapon specific bonuses, not every mech gets as much agility but maybe heat bonuses instead. All kinds of awesome things could be done with the experience trees in this game that could really balance things out. They could make things like the 3 PPC awesome viable again, reduce or increase agility bonuses depending on the mech as well as giving mediums even bigger bonuses.

[MustrumRidcully]

How many Mediums can actually equip 3 SRM6s or more than 6 MLs? More than 2 PPCs?

Ghost Heat primarily affects the Hunchback 4SP.

[Artgathan]

MustrumRidcully, on 14 October 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

How many Mediums can actually equip 3 SRM6s or more than 6 MLs? More than 2 PPCs?

Ghost Heat primarily affects the Hunchback 4SP.

I think you may have meant the 4P?

I agree though that removing Ghost Heat from Mediums wouldn't improve their viability. It might help a bit, but a Pop-Tarting BJ with 3 PPCs is going to struggle heavily with heat problems (it can't even mount a 250 engine to get 10 full DHS) so it won't be great to pilot.

[Ngamok]

I was running my Founders HBK last night. Got two kills a match and 300 to 500 damage. There were a few exceptsions of course by having bad PuGs or me being bum rushed. Happens. Only way to get more people to run mediums is to make them attractive. Also, the upcoming phoenix and sabre packages will have some running around. Of course everyone will be out in their Thunderbolts and Battlemasters killing me in my stock Locust.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

I have my locust hunting build already planned for my S'Hawk. Might as well take advantage of the opportunity

[A banana in the tailpipe]

I apologize to my team every time I drop in a medium because at the best I'll do 400 damage, at the worst, less than 50. It all depends on who targets me first, who I hide behind and let take the shots, and how many heavy/assults the other team has.

Edited by lockwoodx, 15 October 2013 - 07:16 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

I ran Centurions yesterday - one with the armament of a ShadowHawk the other with the armament of a Thunderbolt.
Both worked well - surprise.

I'm sure that with the todays path the numbers of mediums will increase. And as far as i can remember there were only a couple of AssaultMechs in the game yesterday

[Murzao]

I dominate any heavy/assault/light mech 1v1 in any medium so that really isn't the problem. The cowerballing turning the game into turretwarrior is the problem. Back in the day when we had knockdowns (they gotta put those back in), running around in a fast dragon or awesome was actually a valid tactic to run over an atlas or gausscat and piledrive em while they were getting back up. Not to mention light mechs got rocked if they came close I'd run them over and they wouldn't last 10 seconds. More speed in game = makes faster mechs more valuable to play which is usually the lowest tonnage mech in the weight category as well as mediums in general. How do you get more speed in the game? Well make artillery/airstrike not suck a big nut and make them an actual threat to slow movers/campers/poptarts. You wanna take 10 seconds+ to jumpsnipe? Artillery dropped on your head!