427 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

BillyM, on 14 November 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

...back when it cost 60k to repair/rearm a STD HBK4sp vs 150,000 to repair/rearm a XL-Assault, you saw a lot more mediums.

--billyM

Or non XL Assaults.

[Almond Brown]

Diego Angelus, on 14 November 2013 - 01:41 AM, said:

but you miss the point yeah i lose firepower(but still has it same if not bigger firepower then hunch) but I get speed of hunch and I have maximum armor and that makes it better then hunch, That is what I'm trying to say whole time. But why stop there take victor and be super hunch.

Nope. The HB with a max. 275 runs @89.1kph (14.0t XL) The CTF with a max. 340 only runs @ 86.6 (20.5t XL)

So you can run nearly as fast but have to burn off an extra 6.5t. (say what?)

P.S. That is at Stock level armor btw.

Zolaz, on 14 November 2013 - 01:47 AM, said:

I am starting to feel like MWO is too much game for PGI to handle.

So says another "Armchair Game Developer"...

[YueFei]

Diego Angelus, on 14 November 2013 - 01:41 AM, said:

but you miss the point yeah i lose firepower(but still has it same if not bigger firepower then hunch) but I get speed of hunch and I have maximum armor and that makes it better then hunch, That is what I'm trying to say whole time. But why stop there take victor and be super hunch.

Hey, I've already shown you the numbers to back up my argument, and so has another player. You're just waving your arms wildly and making claims without backing them up. That Cataphract will never be as fast as your Hunchback if we're talking about moving that AC/20 + MLas payload. That is, assuming you built your Hunchback properly.

And no, you're not going to build a Victor that can match the Hunchback's pace. Are you serious?! Shove a STD385 in there and even with Hunchback-level of armor, you have no weight left over for the same payload of AC/20 + Medium Lasers. And don't give me {Scrap} about putting an XL, because then that's an apples-to-oranges comparison, and the Victor no longer has the same durability. A Hunchback with STD engine can lose its left shoulder, and then continue to use it to soak up 180 points of damage for the CT before dying. A Victor with XL? Can potentially die after absorbing only 100 damage. And it's still not as fast as a Hunchback.

[Foxwalker]

I am not sure the original topic is still relevant. I am seeing lots of games now with Mediums. Fixing the Kintaro Torso plus the introduction of the Shadow Hawk have made them often seen. Some of the variants of some meduims, due to some new mechanics have become a bit less viable, like the Hunchback P. But, the BJ1, any Centurian, any Shadow Hawk, any Kintaro, does well. Not so many Trebs lately - maybe because they are ugly.

When the Sabre package becomes available, I am guessing, medium numbers will grow even more. I don't believe any incentives are necessary for getting people to play them more.

I agree that more game modes need to be introduced, some focusing on role based use for mechs weapons speed and more.

[Sandpit]

The only way you're really going to coerce players into using various weight classes more is to give them a reason to. I'm not talking about incentives though. I'm talking more along the lines of having actual mission types in CW that have weight caps.

Example:

Recon: Mechs must have a minimum speed of 85/kph and weigh no more than 60 tons

Raid: Mechs must have minimum speed of 90/kph and weigh no more than 50 tons

Those give players a reason and incentive to use them. Then you ensure they get played by saying, "Before you can launch a big assault style mission you must own xx% of the enemy planet" and use these smaller mission types to slowly earn that amount of % for the larger mission types

[Deathlike]

Sandpit, on 14 November 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

The only way you're really going to coerce players into using various weight classes more is to give them a reason to. I'm not talking about incentives though. I'm talking more along the lines of having actual mission types in CW that have weight caps.

I don't think that makes it any better. It's kinda like a similar suggestion to having weight classes represented in a drop (which is what we had before for the MM). Before the ShadowHawk, there weren't too many people thinking there was viably consistent medium that could be used across the board. Centurion is still the short range beast... the Hunchback 4SP didn't severely gimp you if you lost the "primary hunch", and the Cicada was just an overweight light mech (which has been scaled towards being easy to kill).

If you want medium mechs to be represented... they have to be good. That's just a hard fact. If you see an Awesome, you know the opponent wasted 80 tons and/or an assault slot that could be better used. If you see a Locust, you know the opponent has wasted a slot with a mech that dies to the proverbial sneeze where most/any other light could do a better job overall.

There's no way of getting around this... and if we had some sort of "medium mech showdown", the SH would be at the top billing with many other medium mechs (specific variants) would represent (being the top of their respective classes) and the weakest mech on the medium totem pole at this time would still be the Trebuchet... especially with most of its variants being dependent on LRMs.

[Sandpit]

Deathlike, on 14 November 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

I don't think that makes it any better. It's kinda like a similar suggestion to having weight classes represented in a drop (which is what we had before for the MM). Before the ShadowHawk, there weren't too many people thinking there was viably consistent medium that could be used across the board. Centurion is still the short range beast... the Hunchback 4SP didn't severely gimp you if you lost the "primary hunch", and the Cicada was just an overweight light mech (which has been scaled towards being easy to kill).

If you want medium mechs to be represented... they have to be good. That's just a hard fact. If you see an Awesome, you know the opponent wasted 80 tons and/or an assault slot that could be better used. If you see a Locust, you know the opponent has wasted a slot with a mech that dies to the proverbial sneeze where most/any other light could do a better job overall.

There's no way of getting around this... and if we had some sort of "medium mech showdown", the SH would be at the top billing with many other medium mechs (specific variants) would represent (being the top of their respective classes) and the weakest mech on the medium totem pole at this time would still be the Trebuchet... especially with most of its variants being dependent on LRMs.

"good" is relative. I can take an Shawk out with any number of other mediums. I can also lob LRMs, brawl, and snipe with various mediums. Shawks are great squirrel hunters and skrimishers but leave a lot to be desired when brawling most times.

[Deathlike]

Sandpit, on 14 November 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

"good" is relative. I can take an Shawk out with any number of other mediums. I can also lob LRMs, brawl, and snipe with various mediums. Shawks are great squirrel hunters and skrimishers but leave a lot to be desired when brawling most times.

Yes, "good" is relative.

I recognize that people for whatever reason either are good at a certain mech and/or build, or hate it for whatever reason. I don't think it makes sense to put people in a position to fail when personal experience does not match success that others have or haven't had (either they or you are special).

Those who understand a mech will know what the limits and limitations are, and it has always been up to the player to explore them (although, currently it's not cheap nor ideal until UI 2.0 is operational for testing out stuff). So... I think it's fair to say "everyone has a mech that represents them best" vs "a mech everyone knows the meta is hovered around" is a fun discussion for another day.

I personally try to make myself "compatible" with whatever mech (assuming, I like it on paper at least) and try to work at it accordingly. The only few mechs that were the most painful were the Awesome (should I even explain why?), Trebuchet, and Catapult (there may be more that I've forgotten). Oh well... you still have to play the game to find out.

Edited by Deathlike, 14 November 2013 - 05:44 PM.