427 replies to this topic

[Vassago Rain]

dal10, on 13 November 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

i still think the 120 kph lunchback would be moderately effective. does ghost heat even affect small lasers?

This isn't closed beta, where nothing will ever hit, and we're using single heatsinks. A sonic swayback would get eaten alive by a modern day AC5 boat.

90 meter range guns? Really?

[Corvus Antaka]

the only solution is tonnage limits.

If pgi increase medium speeds in example to make them more viable you'll see only those "Viable" builds vs a wide range of various builds.

[Khobai]

Quote

the only solution is tonnage limits.

Tonnage limits arnt a good solution though. It just exchanges one problem for another. Instead of everyone running around in heavy and assault mechs you'll just have everyone running around in whatever mechs give the best bang for the tonnage. While the mechs that arnt so great for their tonnage dont get used at all.

The other huge problem with tonnage limits is that theres no guarantee that someone in an atlas will be any good. They could be absolutely terrible and completely drag down your team. Do you really want that? I dont. Unless the game forces lower elo players into lower tonnage mechs, then its not going to work.

Edited by Khobai, 13 November 2013 - 02:02 PM.

[Sturmforge]

Medium Mechs that are the correct size, halfway in size between a light and a heavy. Sad when there is not a single light the size of a Medium or heavier class yet once you hit Mediums they are Heavy and Assault sized.

[Metalsand]

The easiest way is to nudge them towards the Hunchback-4H and show them a nice AC/20 build. One of my favorite builds of the game, performs at the same level as my Ilya that has triple LBX-10's, but can go up to 90km/h when upgraded and has the same amount of armor but 1/4th of the hitbox.

But yeah, most people run either Assault, Large or Light, and smart Light players are even more rare than the Light players. Yesterday it came down to our entire team capping their point and their entire team capping our point. What does my team do? ALL 8 people who were near or on the enemy cappoint and were outcapping the enemy leave and don't even make it back to our base before the match ends. Even the Light 'mechs stop capping...

[Roland]

As good as your lbx mech, you say?

[YueFei]

Diego Angelus, on 13 November 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

I wasn't able to put engines bigger then 250 in my hunchbacks if I do I lose a lot of firepower so I get 3-4 kph difference.

If you try to shove a bigger engine into the Cataphract you start losing firepower and heat sinks, too. And in the Cataphract, each additional kph you try to squeeze out costs you more tonnage than it does the Hunchback.

Almond Brown, on 13 November 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

If you take the smallest of the max. engines (non-tweaked) allowed between the 2 Mechs and have Max. armor on both then the 275 (+1HS) of the HB runs @ 89.1kph and the CTF runs @ 63.6. The HB has 13t left and the CTF has 27t. So the 20t bonus is now down to only 14t (6t armor extra is nice though ).

What ends up happening, due to the CTF being 20t heavier, it can afford to put up to an additional +/- 50% of that extra weight (14t) into more engine (8t is the true balance point) due to the additional +2 HS's @330, now runs @76.4.

Thus the initial 27kph advantage in speed of the HB, when using comparable engines, is reduced to only 13kph, but the CTF has whittled its initial 14t weight advantage down to a mere 4t advantage in additional Armament/HS/Ammo space availability.

As noted above, for yet an additional 2.5t of engine (up to to max 340 for the CTF) you gain minimal extra speed (2.3kph) and lose all but the armor advantage in the CTF.

Yep.

[YueFei]

Feetwet, on 13 November 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

While the slight speed advantage the HBK has over the CTF will help it get to its initial point faster, I would argue that the advantage evaporates once combat is engaged. Roughly 10 kph does not give me enough speed to disengage the CTF nor does it allow me to quickly get behind the CTF. In combat, if you don't have armor you need the ability to evade and extend. Lights have that against mediums. Mediums don't have that against heavies.

You do have the ability to disengage. Just don't expect to disengage if you're at point-blank range with no intervening cover. But that speed can be used for more than just disengaging. It also matters if you need to shift the balance of forces. Imagine a Conquest match on a large map. You hit a point with a fellow Hunch-bro, and find 2 Cataphracts. You disengage, tell your team what you see, and use your speed to outpace those Cataphracts to arrive at a different base on the map and reinforce your team at a different battle, hitting enemies from a new angle. You convert that temporary numerical advantage into a kill, and then use *that* build momentum in the overall battle.

[Jman5]

Khobai, on 13 November 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

Tonnage limits arnt a good solution though. It just exchanges one problem for another. Instead of everyone running around in heavy and assault mechs you'll just have everyone running around in whatever mechs give the best bang for the tonnage. While the mechs that arnt so great for their tonnage dont get used at all.

The other huge problem with tonnage limits is that theres no guarantee that someone in an atlas will be any good. They could be absolutely terrible and completely drag down your team. Do you really want that? I dont. Unless the game forces lower elo players into lower tonnage mechs, then its not going to work.

Weight caps are coming. Whether you want them or not, the developers have stated their intention to add min/max tonnage on premades and complete team totals. We're just waiting on the lobby system for UI 2.0.

And the problems you listed already exist in the game as is because the matchmaker tries to balance weight between the teams. If one team has 720 tons the matchmaker tried to get the other team close to 720 as well. So skill being equal, the team that brings the better 720 tons of mechs is going to win. It's just less of an issue because the matching is currently a little loose.

The game is going to play so much better when the average weight and subsequent firepower is reduced all around. Once that happens you're going to start seeing much more mobility and less BS.

Edited by Jman5, 13 November 2013 - 09:49 PM.

[Diego Angelus]

YueFei, on 13 November 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

If you try to shove a bigger engine into the Cataphract you start losing firepower and heat sinks, too. And in the Cataphract, each additional kph you try to squeeze out costs you more tonnage than it does the Hunchback.

but you miss the point yeah i lose firepower(but still has it same if not bigger firepower then hunch) but I get speed of hunch and I have maximum armor and that makes it better then hunch, That is what I'm trying to say whole time. But why stop there take victor and be super hunch.

[Zolaz]

I am starting to feel like MWO is too much game for PGI to handle.

[anonymous161]

They were never prepared for this game, the issues in this game are no longer tollerable, they could have fixed the size of the mechs way before they made this officially released. I uninstalled my game a few weeks ago and haven't had much of a reason to go back to this. Even when I try to install this it says it already is even though there are zero files of this game on my pc.

I rather play the mechassault games over this, now imagine if they made another mechwarrior game on the next gen consoles with full length story, amazing array of mechs both old and new and actual brand new designs never seen in the series, take out the arcade style gameplay and make it simulated then we would have a game well worth the 60 bucks. In this for 60 bucks you can get a few assault mechs....thats it.

[Diego Angelus]

Zolaz, on 14 November 2013 - 01:47 AM, said:

I am starting to feel like MWO is too much game for PGI to handle.

I think they can do it. If game didn't launched prematurely they would be in a lot better position to fix stuff.

[Diego Angelus]

Darth Bane001, on 14 November 2013 - 02:09 AM, said:

They were never prepared for this game, the issues in this game are no longer tollerable, they could have fixed the size of the mechs way before they made this officially released. I uninstalled my game a few weeks ago and haven't had much of a reason to go back to this. Even when I try to install this it says it already is even though there are zero files of this game on my pc.

I rather play the mechassault games over this, now imagine if they made another mechwarrior game on the next gen consoles with full length story, amazing array of mechs both old and new and actual brand new designs never seen in the series, take out the arcade style gameplay and make it simulated then we would have a game well worth the 60 bucks. In this for 60 bucks you can get a few assault mechs....thats it.

Mechassault ? Consoles ? I will pretend I never saw that .

[Voidcrafter]

Missiles!
Missiles everywhere!
The short ranged ones at that!
That's how.
That's the reason you were seing so many mediums back in the days( == SRM being a very viable weapon), and not some AC-boats-wanna-be-s.
That's my thoughts at least - without this as a brawler weapon you can go for AC20 on some builds(meaning - you'll either won't have speed or you'll have only 3 medium lasers as defensive weapons, or you won't have enough ammo, or armor, or all of them), dual AC5s or triple AC3s(kinda rare and not quite durable cases).
Going on full energy ordinary is suicide, since you'll either have to get close or stay too far away from the battle - both leave you open to the heavier mechs and their sniper/heavy ballistics.
LRM boating?
Yea somehow works - but LRMs are the most team-dependant weapon and very few players(in my observations) are quite happy with the result - not effective enough in the most cases, even for a medium mech.

SRMs + JJs + some support(which you can affort, since the SRMs themselves are not weight-demanding as the ballistics) is the combintion I miss to pilot my meds.
Yea SRMs are there but the State Rewind and the damage they do combined? Really?!?
Can you image, for example, to endure that loing in brawling range, that someone would actually consider you real danger?
Against a Stalker? Or HGN? Atlai?
The missiles half year back, though with bugged spalsh damage and etc, were really considered something you should SERIOUSLY pay attention to, cause if you didn't focused the Zombie Cent/Hunchie 4SP back then you were going to have a baaad time.
Now... Zombie Cent? 4SP?
They are such a joke now that I would rather focus any light mech first rather than bother with them - unless I'm cored and so are they.
SRMs are not doing what they are supose to right now.
And in my opinion that's the thing that strikes the medium chasis the most.

[Diego Angelus]

Well I love my 4SP only fully effective at 100m because of SRM spread but boy does SRMs hurt when placed well, but yeah artemis is a must.

[Samual Kalkin]

Roland, on 09 October 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

Mediums should be smaller than heavy mechs. The biggest medium should be smaller than the smallest heavy. Mech tonnage should translate DIRECTLY into mech volume.

Snowcrow, on 09 October 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:

Tonnage limits will make mediums popular. The devs are working on it.

Vodrin Thales, on 09 October 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

Why on earth would you make light mechs larger? They are not terribly survivable now, and when hit detection becomes better (an inevitable outcome in my opinion) they will be unplayable. Mediums do need to be smaller. It would definitely help them be more viable. Additional module slots for mediums would also be a good idea.

Because based on their tonnage in relation to the larger classes of mechs, lights are way too small. Their volume should about 2-3x larger than it currently is depending on the mech.

They weight of eqipment and vehicles increases far more rapidly than its volume does. The M1 Abrams is more than twice the tonnage of a Bradley Fighting Vehicle, but it has a lengthh only about 1/4 greater, and a height and width that are almost identical.

You do realize that a Spiders complete volume is about the volume of ONE arm of an Atlas. If that is the case I want the extra 100+ tons that my Atlas should have based on the size/volume difference.

[Tahribator]

Better weapon balance. As long as the perceived "best" builds revolve around PPC's and AC's, people will want to run mechs which can easily accomodate those. Which happen to be heavies and assaults. You can't just slap a PPC+AC on a medium and call it a day, it will seriously cripple your mech.

Now if only the bread and butter of MWO SRM's and ML's were more viable . . . then more people would run mediums.

[BillyM]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

...back when it cost 60k to repair/rearm a STD HBK4sp vs 150,000 to repair/rearm a XL-Assault, you saw a lot more mediums.

--billyM

[ArmageddonKnight]

Reimplimnet Repair & Reload.

The bigger ur mech, the longer it takes to repair.

Meaning if u want to use bigger mechs, fine, but ur gunna have to wait at the very least 17 minute or so to jump back into a Assualt mech.

A heavy mech maybe 13 minutes

Meanwhile if u were to use a Medium mech, it would only take a little while to repair, say 8 minutes.

A light mech ? , even quiker to repair maybe 5 minutes.

U dont want repair to be instant for lights otherwise every1 would just use lights. BUT if u made it so its worth actualy using another mech whilst u wait, then u could incentivise people to user lighter mechs. Making the repair time to quick wouldt not incentivsie peopel to use multiple mechs, u want the longest repair time to easily take longer than 1 round, so that people dont just jump backand forth from 2 mechs.

So say for example u use a Atlas, then u have to wait 17 mins, so u use a Cataphract, then u have 7 minutes left on the Atlass and 13 on the phract, so then u jump into a Hunchback, atfer that u can then use the Atlas again. Thats going by 10 minute games.

If you really want to jump back in the action with the same mech then u pay extra to speed up the repair process or even instantly repair it. This addsa little money sink into the game for those who have nothing else to buy.


This wasnt my original idea, though i cant remember the person who originaly sugetsed it, sry. its a great idea though imo. yes it wil **** of those who just pilot their favorite mech al lthe time, BUT this will diversify the mechs used hopefully.